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Great Individual Seasons on Bad Teams

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Old
02-25-2012, 11:33 PM
  #1
Al Bundy*
 
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Great Individual Seasons on Bad Teams

When a player has a great season, more often than not, the team will do very well.

But there have been instances when players have had good seasons, but the team still was terrible from a standings, overall, and wins/losses perspective.

For instance, Rick Vaive had three straight 50-goal seasons for the Toronto Maple Leafs from 1982-1984 (54, 51, and 52, respectively).

That came in the team's less-than-stellar stretch.

1981-82- 20-44-16
1982-83- 28-40-12 (But still made the playoffs)
1983-84- 26-45-9

He had more goals in those years than the team had wins!

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Old
02-25-2012, 11:45 PM
  #2
Ball1374
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First person I thought of was Dennis Maruk, 60+76-136 points, outscored second on his team by 49, and the Caps finished 26-41-13 in 1981-82

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:25 AM
  #3
Big Phil
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Mario on the 1986 Pens. Terrible supporting cast. But Mario had 141 points. The Pens missed the playoffs and Lemieux had Mike Bullard as the next highest scorer with 83 points.

Joe Sakic 1990 and 1991 Nords. 102 and 109 points. Last place both years. A combined -66 for Joe if that tells you how terrible this team was. I honestly think the 1991 team was worse. Sakic outscored 2nd place Sundin by 50 points. At least the 1990 Nords had Goulet and Stastny for parts of the season. Do you want to know who the Nords 3rd leading scorer was in 1991? Tony Hrkac with 48 points.

They weren't a rotten team, but the 2002 Flames missed the playoffs by a wide margin but had Iginla on the team with his Art Ross year.

Does Gretzky's 130 point Art Ross winning season in 1994 count? How bad were the Kings? Put it this way, the voters placed Gretzky 15th in Hart voting. When has there ever been a time the Art Ross winner finished that low? That was how bad the team was.

Gretzky on the 1980 Oilers. The 1981 team got a little bit better.

Rogie Vachon on the 1975 Kings. Utterly amazing how a goalie could make a 105 team out of that supporting cast. And they still don't let him in the HHOF.

Andy Bathgate on...............pretty much every Ranger team he played on.

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:35 AM
  #4
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The 1975 Islanders had a good record, but Dennis Potvin literally had no help. Lead his team in scoring by 14 points, runner up for the norris. And he was like 21 years old, unreal season.

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:51 AM
  #5
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Bernie Federko on the 78-79 Blues. 95 points on a 18 win team.

Real Cloutier on the 79-80 Nords. 42 goals in 67 games on a last place 61 point team.

Mike Rogers on the 80-81 Whalers. 105 points on a 60 point team.

Dionne on the 81-82 Kings. 117 points and 50 goals on a 24 win team.

Mike Bullard on the 83-84 Pens, 51 goals on a miserable 16 win and 38 point pre-Lemieux Pittsburgh team.

John Ogrodnick on the 84-85 Wings. 55 goals and 105 points on a 27 win team. Ogrodnick and McCourt basically were the Wings offense in the Dead Things era.

Dino Ciccarelli on the 87-88 North Stars. 41 goals and 86 points in 67 games for a last place 19 win team.

Steve Yzerman on the 89-90 Red Wings. 62 goals and 127 points on a last place 28 win Wings team.

Sidney Crosby on the 05-06 Penguins. 102 points on a 58 point team (in the OTL point era).

Ovechkin that very same year. 52 goals and 106 points on a 70 point team.

Really could find one or two guys almost every year, sometimes it's a genuine superstar, usually a very high draft pick who finds himself on a bad team, often it's a good but not great player who makes the most out of the chance to be "the man" on a bad team.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:09 AM
  #6
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Denis Potvin led NYI in scoring his first 4 years in the NHL, the first two, Isles were terrible.

John Tavares this year. The team has less than three wins if not for him and Nabokov. 7gw goals and among NHL leaders on 2nd lowest scoring team in the league.

Stamkos, this year.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:15 AM
  #7
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Pavel Bure on those Panthers team for sure.

Luongo with Florida.

Kowalchuk with the trashers and maybe Nash Rocket Richard with Colombus.

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02-26-2012, 01:38 AM
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As mentioned before, Sakic was one that came to mind. ZERO supporting cast for a number of years.

Pat Lafontaine on the post-Bossy Islanders.

Ancient Gretzky on the Rangers (Linemates of Steven Rice, and Brent Fedyk, and still got 90 points as a 38 year old).


Rick Nash was that guy for many years in Columbus.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:41 AM
  #9
GreatGonzo
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Bure in 2001

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Old
02-26-2012, 03:16 AM
  #10
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Ziggy Palffy in 2003 had a Bure '01 calibre season.

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02-26-2012, 04:08 AM
  #11
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First person that came to my mind is Worsley on the Rangers.

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02-26-2012, 08:36 AM
  #12
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Sakic. 100 point seasons on 12 and 20 wins Nordiques teams.

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02-26-2012, 08:55 AM
  #13
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Iginla on the 2001-02 Flames is an obvious one, winning the Rocket Richards and Art Ross trophies on a 12th place team. Personally I'm glad Iginla won the Pearson but not the Hart that year, because not only did his scoring not really improve his team's record all that much, but towards the end of the season they were clearly more interested in boosting Iginla's totals than winning games.

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Old
02-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #14
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some hardcore Selanne fan's here, so maybe some will be able to tell us the best Selanne season with the worst Duck's team.

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02-26-2012, 11:32 AM
  #15
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Federko and Sakic and of course, Gretzky are the winners for me the other guys had reps as very selfish players, who, despite their stats, were part of the problem not the solution. I remember those mid 70s Blues and they were just awful....By 79 their one decent player, Garry Unger was gone and that left ya with................Edit: Unger lasted until 80, and Brian Sutter was there by then...but the point stands.
Good points. I too believe that. I don't know Bure's heart, but I will say the perception is that he would rather score 50-60 goals on some terrible teams (1998 Canucks, 2001 Panthers) then contribute in other ways to help the team be better like block shots, play defense in the hopes it rewards you with offense.

Denis Maruk comes to mind as another one of those guys. Something is wrong if you have 136 points and are on an awful team regardless of era.

Kovalchuk and Marc Savard are recent examples of seemingly selfish players who did nothing to improve their teams for a long time.

I also want to throw a name out there........Rick Nash. You think somehow someway he'd have led the Blue Jackets to a playoff win.

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02-26-2012, 11:36 AM
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Nobody mentions Gretzky's 137 point rookie season nor his second season where he broke the single season scoring record with 164 points? Hello people!?!?!?!!??!

How can any of this be possible? I hear poster after poster tell us how you must have star linemates to put up big numbers. WTF????????????????

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02-26-2012, 11:45 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Nobody mentions Gretzky's 137 point rookie season nor his second season where he broke the single season scoring record with 164 points? Hello people!?!?!?!!??!

How can any of this be possible? I hear poster after poster tell us how you must have star linemates to put up big numbers. WTF????????????????
Wayne was mentionned 3 times.

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Old
02-26-2012, 11:52 AM
  #18
vadim sharifijanov
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the recent examples that jump out at me are iginla's pearson season, bure's second full season with florida where he scored more than 4x as many goals as the next guy on his team and well over twice as many points, and luongo's last two seasons in florida where he set the NHL single season records for shots and saves the first year, then broke those records the next year (and had a 35/30/9 record but still missed the playoffs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I also want to throw a name out there........Rick Nash. You think somehow someway he'd have led the Blue Jackets to a playoff win.
nash is an interesting case, as opposed to offense-only guys like bure, '03 palffy, selanne in anaheim the year kariya was hurt, and others, where he has the ability to be (and sometimes is) one of the best defensive forwards in the world, but doesn't give it his all very often. nash is a very frustrating player to watch-- i remember one time watching him in person against the kings and he floated for 3/4 of the game, then with his team trailing by two or three in the third, started trying and basically imposed his will on the game, dominating on both ends and scoring two beautiful goals to make it a one goal game. if he had done that the entire game, they would have easily won. as it stood, the kings scored an empty netter late to seal it.

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02-26-2012, 11:56 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Wayne was mentionned 3 times.
In my quick scan I only saw Ranger references. I see now that Big Phil mentioned his first two seasons.

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
In my quick scan I only saw Ranger references. I see now that Big Phil mentioned his first two seasons.
One of the first that came to mind. You know, I was just scanning all the seasons, and I can't find another time in NHL history where a teammate led their team in points by a bigger margin than Gretzky in 1981 and 1982. Gretzky had an 89 point lead over Kurri in 1981 but a 107 point lead over second place Anderson in 1982. Of course, by then the Oilers were elite and no longer classify as a bad team but there can't be a player who comes anywhere near being 107 points better than his next teammate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
nash is an interesting case, as opposed to offense-only guys like bure, '03 palffy, selanne in anaheim the year kariya was hurt, and others, where he has the ability to be (and sometimes is) one of the best defensive forwards in the world, but doesn't give it his all very often. nash is a very frustrating player to watch-- i remember one time watching him in person against the kings and he floated for 3/4 of the game, then with his team trailing by two or three in the third, started trying and basically imposed his will on the game, dominating on both ends and scoring two beautiful goals to make it a one goal game. if he had done that the entire game, they would have easily won. as it stood, the kings scored an empty netter late to seal it.
Which is why I have never been too thrilled with him overall. He'll make Olympic teams and such and the expectation that he would thrive at the Olympics with a star center almost seemed like a given to some people. Not to me. I have never been impressed with his career based on what I think he is CAPABLE of doing. The Leafs are in the running to get Nash and I have to ask: Why? The guy signed a long term deal in the worst hockey market in the world on the worst franchise in NHL history. He hasn't led them anywhere. He won't either. So it begs the question as to why he would WANT to stay there. Less pressure? No one bothers him? Collect a big paycheque?

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02-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
some hardcore Selanne fan's here, so maybe some will be able to tell us the best Selanne season with the worst Duck's team.
97-98 easily:

Selanne led the league in goals(by a wide margin) and points at the time of his injury 56gp 41g 68pts playing on a line with Scott Young and Steve Rucchin. He finished with 73gp 52g 86pts. Selanne was just unstoppable that season even when there was absolutely no-one else to shutdown on that Mighty Ducks team. There were only 3 other players who scored 10 or more goals and not a single one who scored over 20.

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02-26-2012, 04:11 PM
  #22
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Bobby Orr's rookie campaign, winning a calder, 2nd team all star and 6th in hart voting. He played for the doormat franchise of the 0-6 era. Im sure his rookie year would have been even better if he was put in Pierre Pilote's situation or basically play with any other team.

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Old
02-26-2012, 08:12 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
97-98 easily:

Selanne led the league in goals(by a wide margin) and points at the time of his injury 56gp 41g 68pts playing on a line with Scott Young and Steve Rucchin. He finished with 73gp 52g 86pts. Selanne was just unstoppable that season even when there was absolutely no-one else to shutdown on that Mighty Ducks team. There were only 3 other players who scored 10 or more goals and not a single one who scored over 20.
Missing one of the most important stats: He led the league in even-strength scoring with 41 Goals and 67 Points in just 73 Games.

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Old
03-01-2012, 08:44 PM
  #24
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I thought of Sundin in 96-97

41 goals and 94 points (7th in the league) on a Leafs team that finished 30-44-8

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Old
03-01-2012, 11:41 PM
  #25
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Johnny Bucyk averaged 21.4 goals / 54 pts over an 8 year period in the Original 6 era (1959-60 to 1966-67) for Bruins teams that finished no higher than 5th (twice), averaging a 16-42-12 record.

Must've been frustrating.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By comparison, Andy Bathgate (when he became a regular) averaged 28.4 goals / 74 pts over a 9 year period in the original 6 era (1954-55 to 1962-63), for Rangers teams averaging a 24-33-13 record, but at least made the playoffs 4 times.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bathgate also had 3 HoFers who played with him for a very significant time during this period, (defensemen Bill Gadsby and Harry Howell and GK Gump Worsley).

During those 9 yrs, under him in scoring was:
Andy Hebenton (177 goals / 368 pts),
Dean Prentice (176 goals / 396 pts) and
Camille Henry (174 goals / 328 pts)

The Rangers used 11 GKs but 3 of them played 1 game, 3 others played 2 games and 3 more combined for 29 games.

Worsley played 532 games with a record of 191-242-93.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bucyk had 1 HoFer who played with him during this stretch, stay-at-home d-man Leo Boivin.

Under him in scoring, during this period, was:
Murray Oliver (116 goals / 330 pts),
for 4 yrs Don McKenney (82 goals / 202 pts) and
for 6 years Tommy Williams (74 goals / 171 pts)

During Bucyk's stretch the Bruins also used 11 GKs, including HoFers Gerry Cheevers, Bernie Parent and Harry Lumley, who combined for 130 games and a combined record of 36-67-17.

Eddie Johnston did the bulk load of work, playing 234 games with a record of 58-139-30

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