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Trade Rumors and Proposals: Part XXIV

View Poll Results: Michalek for Nash
Yes 51 66.23%
No 26 33.77%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-03-2012, 12:05 PM
  #901
Benny FTW
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Bouwmeester is pure garbage. Hes a #4/#5. not sure why we would want that

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05-03-2012, 12:11 PM
  #902
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When was the last time a #4 or 5 defenseman fished third overall in total ice time?

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05-03-2012, 12:12 PM
  #903
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- Strong and can protect the puck very well
- Actually has finish unlike most of our wingers (Goals)
- Can set up plays as well (Assists)
- Knows where to be on the ice (Plus/minus)

All I ever see are ridiculous stat lines being compared.


also didn`t answer my question of if you`ve ever played before
Those points you are referring to are essentially stats. If Nash was a UFA I would say go after him the fact that you have to take on a huge salary and give a up solid picks, players and prospects puts him on the "Do Not Want At That Price" list.

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05-03-2012, 12:15 PM
  #904
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When was the last time a #4 or 5 defenseman fished third overall in total ice time?
And top 10 in the minus category, that's impress... oh wait is that bad or good??

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05-03-2012, 12:17 PM
  #905
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And top 10 in the minus category, that's impress... oh wait is that bad or good??
I can't believe a Senators fan would ask that question.

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05-03-2012, 12:25 PM
  #906
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Those points you are referring to are essentially stats. If Nash was a UFA I would say go after him the fact that you have to take on a huge salary and give a up solid picks, players and prospects puts him on the "Do Not Want At That Price" list.
I think this is very well stated. lets keep the 3 or 4 assets (good assets too) and go after a UFA. Hudler has been mentionned and that is a solid thought.

Silfverberg - Spezza - Alfredsson
Foligno - Turris - Michalek
Smith - Hudler - Stone
Greening - O'Brien - Neil
Condra

Regin could be a wild-card. Not sure on Konopka. Winchester's concussions will mean he's not signed. Butler traded for a pick or bouught out. Zibanejad plays in Binghamton with Hoffman, Petersson, DaCosta, Daugavins, Klinkhammer, Lehner who are adding Prince and Pageau. If Daugavins and Klinkhammer don't accept two-ways, they are not signed.

I do think MacLean rolls with a full roster next year and will carry 7 D and 13 forwards. See who wants it the most.

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05-03-2012, 12:28 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I can't believe a Senators fan would ask that question.
I can't believe you think I was serious. I thought I was being pretty funny

Joking aside who knows how JayBo would be playing with the Sens in their system. He's obviously talented and has had good years in the past. Saying that, I don't think he's worth the risk @6.8 cap hit for trading any good asset

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05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
  #908
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1 of the 12 forward spots should just be on permanent call-up rotation all year long that Zib, Da Costa, Petersson, Hoffman, Stone, Prince, and Pageau can all compete for throughout the season.

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05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post

I honestly think the biggest problem with Bouwmeester is that his name is Bouwmeester. I call it Brian Lee-itis, you completely dismiss what they do contribute because they are/have been a disappointment. If you ask for Ferarri and get an Audi...you got an Audi.
No, the biggest problem with him is that he get's paid $6.6 million on the cap for what he brings. Not his 'name'. If you honestly believe that is his problem you clearly do not watch the Flames play. He contributes little in offence and doesn't 'bring' it night after night.
Assuming we can't trade Gonchar, we'd be paying $5.5 million to him, $6.6 million to Bouwmeester and I'm guessing $5-7 million to Karlsson. That's a lot of money in 3 guys when 2 of them are closer to decline or the end of their career.

Not to mention, we don't know where the cap will be. It's naive to assume it's just going to go up again when it's more than likely the percentage of revenues to players will decrease. If the percentages in the NFL and NBA to players can go down, it's pretty reasonable to assume the NHL's will too.

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05-03-2012, 12:33 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
I think this is very well stated. lets keep the 3 or 4 assets (good assets too) and go after a UFA. Hudler has been mentionned and that is a solid thought.

Silfverberg - Spezza - Alfredsson
Foligno - Turris - Michalek
Smith - Hudler - Stone
Greening - O'Brien - Neil
Condra

Regin could be a wild-card. Not sure on Konopka. Winchester's concussions will mean he's not signed. Butler traded for a pick or bouught out. Zibanejad plays in Binghamton with Hoffman, Petersson, DaCosta, Daugavins, Klinkhammer, Lehner who are adding Prince and Pageau. If Daugavins and Klinkhammer don't accept two-ways, they are not signed.

I do think MacLean rolls with a full roster next year and will carry 7 D and 13 forwards. See who wants it the most.
hudler is a left wing. although i like the idea of signing hudler, how about if we lose the parise sweepstakes we don't make any forward ufa signings?

how about we give guys like petersson, dacosta, or hoffman a chance to see what they can do?

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05-03-2012, 12:37 PM
  #911
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Bouwmeester is pure garbage. Hes a #4/#5. not sure why we would want that
You're completely off base. Bouwmeester has the same issue that Dion Phaneuf has: he's a very good #2 defenseman being cast as a #1. Just like teams try to patch their top line center role with Tyler Bozaks and Antoine Vermettes, you're not going to get the best out of that player when you are playing them in a role they shouldn't be playing. Do their respective teams have a choice? No, they don't. The Flames don't have a defenseman to be their #1 and Bouwmeester, as much as he isn't suited for the role, has to be thrust in to that position. However, on a team like Ottawa, he would be an excellent #2 skating next to Karlsson. He's got great skating and speed and he's shown the ability to produce offensively in line with what you would expect out of a very good two-way defenseman. It would be a very shrewd move by B. Murray to acquire Bouwmeester if the price were right. It would also be a great step in the right direction in terms of lowering the overall age of our defensemen and increasing the mobility on the blueline.

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05-03-2012, 12:38 PM
  #912
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i cant believe im saying this but i would be on board with the bouwmeester acquisition (as long as he can be had for cheap). this is why:

- i feel as if kuba over-achieved seeing how it was a contract year. while he could have the same effect he had this year, i have a gut feeling he will regress. not to mention he will be looking to cash in.

- bouwmeester has not missed a game in almost 7 years. his durability will be key. as well as the fact that he's a minutes eater. keeps other defensemen fresh.

- while he does have a pretty big cap space, the murrays have been good on staying with the rebuild, thus for another 2 years, i dont think it will be difficult managing his cap since they wont be looking to sign any big free agents.

- he can play in all kinds of scenarios. as well as if hes placed next to karlsson, he could probably hit 40 points like his florida days.

again, this is all based if calgary wants to get rid of his cap and he can be had for cheap. if thats the case, i think its a win-win. at worst, we get the bouwmeester of now which, while overpayed, is still valuable considering our cap space.

and as someone already mention, besides suter, there isnt much out there for dmen. and its unlikely suter is even considering us as a logical suitor.

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05-03-2012, 12:41 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by PKC View Post
You're completely off base. Bouwmeester has the same issue that Dion Phaneuf has: he's a very good #2 defenseman being cast as a #1. Just like teams try to patch their top line center role with Tyler Bozaks and Antoine Vermettes, you're not going to get the best out of that player when you are playing them in a role they shouldn't be playing. Do their respective teams have a choice? No, they don't. The Flames don't have a defenseman to be their #1 and Bouwmeester, as much as he isn't suited for the role, has to be thrust in to that position. However, on a team like Ottawa, he would be an excellent #2 skating next to Karlsson. He's got great skating and speed and he's shown the ability to produce offensively in line with what you would expect out of a very good two-way defenseman. It would be a very shrewd move by B. Murray to acquire Bouwmeester if the price were right. It would also be a great step in the right direction in terms of lowering the overall age of our defensemen and increasing the mobility on the blueline.
Bouwmeester did pretty good as the #1 in Florida.

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05-03-2012, 12:41 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
i cant believe im saying this but i would be on board with the bouwmeester acquisition (as long as he can be had for cheap). this is why:

- i feel as if kuba over-achieved seeing how it was a contract year. while he could have the same effect he had this year, i have a gut feeling he will regress. not to mention he will be looking to cash in.

- bouwmeester has not missed a game in almost 7 years. his durability will be key. as well as the fact that he's a minutes eater. keeps other defensemen fresh.

- while he does have a pretty big cap space, the murrays have been good on staying with the rebuild, thus for another 2 years, i dont think it will be difficult managing his cap since they wont be looking to sign any big free agents.

- he can play in all kinds of scenarios. as well as if hes placed next to karlsson, he could probably hit 40 points like his florida days.

again, this is all based if calgary wants to get rid of his cap and he can be had for cheap. if thats the case, i think its a win-win. at worst, we get the bouwmeester of now which, while overpayed, is still valuable considering our cap space.

and as someone already mention, besides suter, there isnt much out there for dmen. and its unlikely suter is even considering us as a logical suitor.
true, but there is one problem. we don't need bowmeester. we need a shutdown/shot blocking/hitting defenseman. bryan murran even said so himself. unfortunately, he's not any of these.

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05-03-2012, 12:51 PM
  #915
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true, but there is one problem. we don't need bowmeester. we need a shutdown/shot blocking/hitting defenseman. bryan murran even said so himself. unfortunately, he's not any of these.
I wonder what Bouwmeester was doing out there for 25 minutes every game if he wasn`t playing defense or producing offense.

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05-03-2012, 12:55 PM
  #916
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true, but there is one problem. we don't need bowmeester. we need a shutdown/shot blocking/hitting defenseman. bryan murran even said so himself. unfortunately, he's not any of these.
I'm with this. Cowen next year will be a good 2nd unit PP option so anything Bouwmeester gives us offensively we can find internally. We don't need a $6 million 2nd unit PP option, Cowen and Gilroy can do that for 2/3 less money.

Bouwmeester is a great skater, but for a soft 2nd pairing guy I'd rather go with something cheaper and a lot more durable and hard.

The NHL is changing back to a defense first league, and our D is the one area we need to get bigger and tougher at. I'd rather trade or chase a guy who plays like a winner

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05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
  #917
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I can't believe you think I was serious. I thought I was being pretty funny

Joking aside who knows how JayBo would be playing with the Sens in their system. He's obviously talented and has had good years in the past. Saying that, I don't think he's worth the risk @6.8 cap hit for trading any good asset
I'm in Toastman's corner on this one. Cap hit means nothing to us at this point. We're practically at the cap floor. Plus it's only 2 years and he's 28 years old. I'll be the first one to admit he's overpaid for what he offers. I'd rather attribute the 6.8 cap hit to Suter (6.6 real salary) but it's only for 2 more years until which we renegotiate and I can guarantee you he will not ask for 6.8 at that point, probably much closer to 3.5-4 mil if he even stays. If not, I would say he's a pretty good stop gap measure until other prospects take his spot or the UFA market improves at that point.

Plus I am sure that he will be extremely grateful to get out of Calgary at this point. My only beef is what would it take to pry him out of Calgary. I'm sure Feaster would want a decent return, though we would be relieving a lot of their cap space for them.

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05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
  #918
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Do we ever invite the European defenceman we draft to camp?
Maybe we have a diamond in the rough.

2003:
Philippe Seydoux 6'2
Mattias Karlsson 6'2
Sergei Gimayev 6'0

2004:
Kirill Lyamin 6'2

2005:
Tomáš Kudělka 6'3
Dmitri Megalinsky 6'2

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05-03-2012, 01:17 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I wonder what Bouwmeester was doing out there for 25 minutes every game if he wasn`t playing defense or producing offense.
i bet you calgary fans were wondering why they are paying this guy almost 7 mil. when giordano was doing twice as much for half the money.

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05-03-2012, 01:20 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by TeamRenzo View Post
Those points you are referring to are essentially stats. If Nash was a UFA I would say go after him the fact that you have to take on a huge salary and give a up solid picks, players and prospects puts him on the "Do Not Want At That Price" list.
How does plus minus equate to knowing where to be on the ice? Not so much.

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05-03-2012, 01:24 PM
  #921
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i bet you calgary fans were wondering why they are paying this guy almost 7 mil. when giordano was doing twice as much for half the money.
Calgary fans were expecting 40 points a year out of Bouwmeester. Like I said, Brian Lee-itis. Failing to meet expectations causes a lot of fans to lose sight of what the player actually contributes. Stuff like value and preformance per dollar only matter when you are up to the salary cap, your internal cap or you are trying to trade someone who is overpaid. Brian Campbell was an anchor to the Blackhawks and a god send to the Panthers because his cap hit meant jack ****.

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05-03-2012, 01:47 PM
  #922
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the bottom line is jaybo is not the player we are looking for. like i mentioned, we need a defensive defensman. something like volchenkov from a couple years ago.

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05-03-2012, 02:02 PM
  #923
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the bottom line is jaybo is not the player we are looking for. like i mentioned, we need a defensive defensman. something like volchenkov from a couple years ago.
Bouwmeester is a guy who plays 25 minutes a night against top lines. He isn't that physical, but his size, skating, and positioning would be a huge bonus. A faster, younger, more consistent Kuba. Gonchar+ the sens 1st rounder might not be enough.

Bouw is expensive, but I have a hard time seeing Calgary parting with him easily. Extremely hard to replace 25+ minutes a night.

Another option on D could be Zbynek Michalek. A good defensive defenceman with a salary that might be a bit high.

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05-03-2012, 02:15 PM
  #924
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All due respect, Columbus powerplay is a trainwreck. And with Umberger, Brassard, Prospal, there is no guarantee he makes their first unit anyways. Michalek is not a top end player, he is not that good. If he was these proposals wouldn't exist. You can make the argument he isn't better than Umberger at the top of the net, really.
I don't care. It's still an extra 1 1/2 - 2 minutes playing against 4 skaters. It's a turkey shoot and if CLB isn't any good at it, perhaps the offensive leader of the team should shoulder a little of that blame too.

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Nash is much better with the puck, is a better passer, has a better shot, has deceptively good speed using his size. Nash can dangle while Michalek is pure North-South with speed, which also has lead to injuries. Also, Nash has gotten better defensively from Hitch as well as on the PK. Michalek is a top six, Nash is a top line. Plain and simple.

Yea Michalek is a bit better two-way game and has more goals, but you're forgetting the most obvious of things. One plays on a great team, the other team is terrible. Michalek scores 20 goals or less on the Blue Jackets.
Nash is a better than Michalek. I was never implying any different. He just isn't $3.47M better.

Also, these are our offensive wingers moving forward: Michalek, Foligno, Greening and gawd knows who?

Swapping Michalek and Nash while leaving the rest of those guys intact doesn't make it look appreciably better to me. Adding $3.47M to 'gawd knows who's' salary and trying for somebody that we could slot in between Michalek & Foligno would probably have a much bigger impact on our offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N15H View Post
- Strong and can protect the puck very well
- Actually has finish unlike most of our wingers
- Can set up plays as well
- Knows where to be on the ice

All I ever see are ridiculous stat lines being compared.


also didn`t answer my question of if you`ve ever played before
Lots of pond hockey.

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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Jay Bouwmeester.

-Cap hit of 6.6, it's large but we need to spend money on someone considering we will be near the floor if we don't sign anyone. None of them really interest me, aside from Suter.
-Only 2 years left on deal, I don't see any of the UFA defensemen taking that short a deal
-Easily the second best available D men in comparison to UFA defensemen.
-Above average, potentially great defensively
-Average, potentially above average offensively. Can play on PP2, potentially PP1
-Plays every game
-Could potentially be had for cheap if we are willing to eat the caphit, which we very well may be.
-Has NTC but don't see why he wouldn't waive.
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im waiting for Trent to throw things at you through his computer screen.

Jay-Bo is a career loser because teams invest a lot in him, which he isn't capable of returning because he's a gutless player.
- He doesn't belong anywhere near a top PP unit because he's a textbook player lacking the creativity and balls to break the game open.
- He shouldn't be on the top PK unit because he won't use his body to win puck battles, hit or block shots. He barely uses his body to get in the way of opposing defenders like a scarecrow. If they don't realize how much of a pansey he is, they'll turn back. But if they do, they'll just drive towards him... running over him or skating right around him. Same goes for him allegedly being a 'shutdown D-man'. He isn't one and I've never worried about our team facing him.

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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
I'd rather take a risk on Souray instead of taking on J-Bo for 2 more seasons. Would be a cheaper cap hit to swallow if it doesn't work out, and wouldn't cost us any assets in the process.
Souray turns 36 this summer and is more offensive than defensive. We'd be better off just re-signing Kuba.

IMO, we should be trying to acquire a top-4 D-man under 30 who can grow with the team... just not a 2nd pairing D-man making nearly $7M/yr.

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I honestly think the biggest problem with Bouwmeester is that his name is Bouwmeester. I call it Brian Lee-itis, you completely dismiss what they do contribute because they are/have been a disappointment. If you ask for Ferarri and get an Audi...you got an Audi.
A better Brian Lee is a pretty solid comparable as a guy whose lack of assertiveness hurts him offensively and defensively, so much so that he doesn't have any useful specialization.

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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
When was the last time a #4 or 5 defenseman fished third overall in total ice time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I wonder what Bouwmeester was doing out there for 25 minutes every game if he wasn`t playing defense or producing offense.
That's a vestige of Jay-Bo's status as an elite prospect who teams have invested greatly in. Unfortunately, that all he has left is the title of minute eating D-man. Personally, I think that if you're giving Jay-Bo anything but depth minutes; you're doing something wrong.

= 2nd pairing mins, 2nd PP, 2nd PK and some 3rd pairing time too.

Otherwise, I'd rather have real specialists handle the key roles.

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You're completely off base. Bouwmeester has the same issue that Dion Phaneuf has: he's a very good #2 defenseman being cast as a #1. Just like teams try to patch their top line center role with Tyler Bozaks and Antoine Vermettes, you're not going to get the best out of that player when you are playing them in a role they shouldn't be playing. Do their respective teams have a choice? No, they don't. The Flames don't have a defenseman to be their #1 and Bouwmeester, as much as he isn't suited for the role, has to be thrust in to that position. However, on a team like Ottawa, he would be an excellent #2 skating next to Karlsson. He's got great skating and speed and he's shown the ability to produce offensively in line with what you would expect out of a very good two-way defenseman. It would be a very shrewd move by B. Murray to acquire Bouwmeester if the price were right. It would also be a great step in the right direction in terms of lowering the overall age of our defensemen and increasing the mobility on the blueline.
Most number 2's specialize in something, usually a 1-way talent.

Phaneuf is much better offensively and can change momentum with a hit.

Jay-Bo is a 2nd pairing D-man who is given lots of minutes on bad teams because of his history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Brian Campbell was an anchor to the Blackhawks and a god send to the Panthers because his cap hit meant jack ****.
Brian Campbell filled a major need in Florida.

Jay-Bo is only a minute eating D-man, like a league average #4 pitcher. We don't need him and certainly not at $6.7M. We could do better in free agency with a blindfold and a dartboard.

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05-03-2012, 02:18 PM
  #925
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Something interesting about Buowmeester is that his shots have plummeted dramatically the past three years, which coincides with the sudden drop in his offensive numbers. This year he had 107 in 82GP, the lowest total since his sophomore year (when he missed 21 games with a foot injury). During his four ~40pt years, he was averaging about 180 shots over the course of the season.

It would seem that if you want 40pts out of Buowmeester, you need him taking 180 shots a year. Would he get those kind of numbers in Ottawa? Karlsson's our de facto shooter from the blueline (partially because he and Gonchar are our only D capable of getting off a quick, powerful shot). Does J-Bo have a good shot? If he does, I'd be more interested in acquiring him. A second shooting threat on the blueline at even strength would divert attention away from Karlsson, or give EK the option of throwing a quick pass to Bouwmeester for a shot.


My only significant concerns with him are:
- Declining offensive production (could be due to CGY system/lack of shots)
- Perceived lack of passion
- Occasionally appears to be 'mailing it in'
- Not remotely physical


The cap-hit shouldn't be a concern, he's got another two years at 6.6M. After next year, Gonch and Alfredsson's contracts will be off the books (man, I'm gonna miss Alfie) opening up ~10M to sign/re-sign any players in 2013-2014. Our only major re-signings this off-season are Karlsson, Foligno, and possibly Regin (who, like JOB, should re-sign cheap). Even with Bouwmeester we would have more than enough to get them signed.

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