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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Molodezhnaya Hokkeinaya Liga (MHL) - Part II

View Poll Results: Does the MHL need a NEW thread for the 2013/2014 season?
Yes, it would be more convinient 1 25.00%
No, lets keep everything in one place 3 75.00%
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Old
07-04-2013, 01:23 AM
  #726
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FHR/KHL must ban transfers U18 like it or not.

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07-04-2013, 03:49 AM
  #727
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Can anybody explain the strong dislike versus CHL?

I can understand that MHL becomes less competitive because of MHL players moving there, some prospects can't adjust to NA and basically it costs them their careers, but generally, if I look at Latvian prospects who have played in the CHL, I believe that they have gained more than if they stayed in Europe.

Obviously, with MHL being a recently established league, we can't really draw strong conclusions out of this (at least in case of Latvia), but that's the way I feel.

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07-04-2013, 04:47 AM
  #728
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It is not dislike of CHL, it is dislike the system of transfers. Did you read my post at previous page? If not, read it.

1) Euro clubs are losing its players for nothing (and not only moving to CHL, but also from Czech rep to Sweden or Slovakia to MHL in Budapest etc). Soccer/basketball - development fees. Why not in hockey?

2) IIHF should protect players like FIBA/FIFA. Or there in ANY bad example of moving to aboard? I know cases when the player had disaster conditions in Canada, had no food, no accomodation, had to pay for ice. Really?

3) Adjusting to NA - nonsense. We all know that NBA plays another basket than Europe. Why 15-16 y old Euros dont move there? The same with african players and Europe. Why does not they move before they are 18?

FIFA and FIBA bans transfers U18 (exceptions). No problem. Why not IIHF?
FIFA and FIBA have development fees. No problem. Why not IIHF?

That is the problem, nothing more.

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07-04-2013, 08:19 AM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
It is not dislike of CHL, it is dislike the system of transfers. Did you read my post at previous page? If not, read it.

1) Euro clubs are losing its players for nothing (and not only moving to CHL, but also from Czech rep to Sweden or Slovakia to MHL in Budapest etc). Soccer/basketball - development fees. Why not in hockey?

2) IIHF should protect players like FIBA/FIFA. Or there in ANY bad example of moving to aboard? I know cases when the player had disaster conditions in Canada, had no food, no accomodation, had to pay for ice. Really?

3) Adjusting to NA - nonsense. We all know that NBA plays another basket than Europe. Why 15-16 y old Euros dont move there? The same with african players and Europe. Why does not they move before they are 18?

FIFA and FIBA bans transfers U18 (exceptions). No problem. Why not IIHF?
FIFA and FIBA have development fees. No problem. Why not IIHF?

That is the problem, nothing more.
Non-sense. No Russian poster here cares about couple of thousand dollar transfer fee the CHL could or should pay. The only one who is on transfer crusade is you.

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07-04-2013, 08:25 AM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GX View Post

I believe that they have gained more than if they stayed in Europe.
No one really knows that. They were the most talanted before moving to NA, they didn't become NHL-ers, but yeah, indeed they still are our most relevant players as far as NT is concerned. Argument can be made both ways.

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07-04-2013, 08:25 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Non-sense. No Russian poster here cares about couple of thousand dollar transfer fee the CHL could or should pay. The only one who is on transfer crusade is you.
Dont know why you laugh. This status quo is sad

Pls dont be ignore and try to read posts of malkinfan,cska78, Yakushev72. It is not my problem that hockey does not have such rule as basketball or football, sports which works for everyone, not only for one league.

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07-04-2013, 08:26 AM
  #732
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I agree with vorky.
with these few thousend dollar the european hockey would be more profitable, espacially developmental leagues. It would increase the level of european hockey.

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07-04-2013, 08:45 AM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Dont know why you laugh. This status quo is sad

Pls dont be ignore and try to read posts of malkinfan,cska78, Yakushev72. It is not my problem that hockey does not have such rule as basketball or football, sports which works for everyone, not only for one league.
I did go through last pages once again. And the only person caring about transfer fees unsurprisingly is you. Everyone else is concerned about potential negative impact on kids development this transfer to NA could do.

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07-04-2013, 09:12 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I did go through last pages once again. And the only person caring about transfer fees unsurprisingly is you. Everyone else is concerned about potential negative impact on kids development this transfer to NA could do.
Sorry, I think It's all important either. 100% agree with Ivan 94

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07-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #735
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Sorry, I think It's all important either. 100% agree with Ivan 94
I guess I didn't make my stance clear. Never I said that transfer money completely doesn't matter and wouldn't make any difference, but vorky made it sound that Europeans fans are more concerned about some transfer fees than potential ruined careers of a really good prospects.

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07-04-2013, 10:24 AM
  #736
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Transfer money is certainly warranted in concept, given the cost of development and training of players at the outset, but the profit margins in the CHL probably aren't enough to permit them to pay the kind of money sufficient to compensate European teams for the loss of their best talent. In more affluent European countries, it probably wouldn't be an issue at all. For some European countries struggling to meet the high cost of hockey, the funds might be critical. But I think there is little or no chance that transfer compensation agreements will ever happen.

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07-04-2013, 10:49 AM
  #737
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it's not the transfer money, it's the CHL grinding our top-prospects into hybrid products of Russian and NA system, depleting the MHL (and therefore the overall level of Russian Junior hockey). In the end the best of the best survive due to an exceptional talent, but the rest become unpolished products of two systems...They(CHL, USHL etc) are wiping out entire generations of Russian stars into mediocrity.

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07-04-2013, 11:06 AM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I did go through last pages once again. And the only person caring about transfer fees unsurprisingly is you. Everyone else is concerned about potential negative impact on kids development this transfer to NA could do.
As other guys wrote, I am right

Once again, I dont say about transfers to CHL, I say about transfers of U18 players in general. Development fee should be paid for 16y old czech moving to Sweden/Russia/CHL etc. Problem is that there is no development fee. Give me evedince I am wrong. Or do you claim rules of FIFA/FIBA are antidemocratic, illegal? Come on...

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07-04-2013, 11:12 AM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Transfer money is certainly warranted in concept, given the cost of development and training of players at the outset, but the profit margins in the CHL probably aren't enough to permit them to pay the kind of money sufficient to compensate European teams for the loss of their best talent. In more affluent European countries, it probably wouldn't be an issue at all. For some European countries struggling to meet the high cost of hockey, the funds might be critical. But I think there is little or no chance that transfer compensation agreements will ever happen.
I agree with you. No money, no players. Where problem is? Look, czech/serbain/latvian soccer clubs does not have money, so you dont see the best players here.

And as cska78 wrote, I dont say about transfer fee but development fee (in case players under 18). This development fee is not based on quality of player but costs for development of players. Now we have development fee of 200-300 000 USD according to NHLPTA. But it is development fee+transfer fee, not only development fee. In basketball and soccer, the club cas say how much money the club wants for player under contract (transfer fee), in hockey not (if trasnfer to NHL).

I really recommend you guys to read FIBA/FIFA/IIHF rules and compare it. Only FIFA rules are one-sided (for NHL/CHL and partly for KHL). How can the system work if there is no guarantee of develpment fees? One league (the most influencial) does not respect contract of players? Even NBA respects euro contracts. I know fans of NBA does not like this transfer system, because it is difficult to aquire young euros. I know NHL does not want this system. But, why should I be quite?


Last edited by vorky: 07-04-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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07-04-2013, 11:21 AM
  #740
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Quote:
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I agree with vorky.
with these few thousend dollar the european hockey would be more profitable, espacially developmental leagues. It would increase the level of european hockey.
Few thousand dollars is insignificant to European clubs. Juniors clubs in general don't operate to make profit, they're operated by their "host" club that plays on the highest level. That amount might cover one or two players equipment and insurance for one season.

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07-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #741
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Few thousand dollars is insignificant to European clubs. Juniors clubs in general don't operate to make profit, they're operated by their "host" club that plays on the highest level. That amount might cover one or two players equipment and insurance for one season.
Granted that a few thousand dollars is insignificant, but even big rich clubs are harmed when the fruits of their development efforts are cherry-picked by far-away business entities who are going to reap the profits from the home team's investments with no investment of their own, other than cashing in on the finished product. For now, the KHL has other more pressing concerns, but this issue might well lead to far more Draconian contract restrictions that will lock down star players before they can migrate. That would be regrettable, but it may be inevitable.

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07-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Granted that a few thousand dollars is insignificant, but even big rich clubs are harmed when the fruits of their development efforts are cherry-picked by far-away business entities who are going to reap the profits from the home team's investments with no investment of their own, other than cashing in on the finished product. For now, the KHL has other more pressing concerns, but this issue might well lead to far more Draconian contract restrictions that will lock down star players before they can migrate. That would be regrettable, but it may be inevitable.
The difference is that w're talking kids so young that the senior team hasn't managed to invest anything in the kid financially. E.g. if Alex Lintuniemi were to go to CHL, the only thing Jokerit invested him were basically equipment for one or two season.

Perhaps KHL teams should try making the contract terms more desirable from a junior player's point of view instead of trying to restrict their movement more? Compete(with in Russia as well) for their services with better coaching and possibilities of more icetime etc.


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07-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #743
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You dont understand that nobody speaking about KHL or MHL but about Europe, Finland.

Club investing nothing to players? The hell, where do you live? Who pays coaches, equipment, school system? Maybe not club, but country (Finland, Sweden,etc).

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07-04-2013, 04:58 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
it's not the transfer money, it's the CHL grinding our top-prospects into hybrid products of Russian and NA system, depleting the MHL (and therefore the overall level of Russian Junior hockey). In the end the best of the best survive due to an exceptional talent, but the rest become unpolished products of two systems...They(CHL, USHL etc) are wiping out entire generations of Russian stars into mediocrity.
There is no doubt that you're right. Its not about transfer money at all. I do believe that transfer money is warranted, but the pittance that would be available wouldn't represent any real compensation for the loss of talent. The real tragedy is that kids who are not superstars are launched into a system that they are not ready for, and cannot realistically expect to excel in. Inevitably, since the CHL is not a development league, the kids will fail to meet the production grind that is characteristic of the CHL, and will become discouraged and eventually give up. It keeps on happening over and over again, and yet they keep on coming.

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07-04-2013, 05:06 PM
  #745
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The difference is that w're talking kids so young that the senior team hasn't managed to invest anything in the kid financially. E.g. if Joel Lintuniemi were to go to CHL, the only thing Jokerit invested him were basically equipment for one or two season.

Perhaps KHL teams should try making the contract terms more desirable from a junior player's point of view instead of trying to restrict their movement more? Compete(with in Russia as well) for their services with better coaching and possibilities of more icetime etc.
Most of the good players who are prospects have been playing in the big club's hockey schools for 5 or 6 years before they head to NA. Take Nichushkin for example. He has been in the Traktor hockey school since about 13. Its not so much the quantity of money that they have invested as it is that without that investment, the kid might be looking for a job as an auto mechanic. Look at the procession of young stars that the Traktor club alone has produced. Its the kids who have the talent, but its Traktor that holds the key to unlocking that talent.

Better contract terms might help, but its mostly the lure of the NA pot of gold as depicted by the agent that wants a share of it that lures the kids there. Glory too, of course. It should be up to the kid to decide, but there are way too many "opportunities" than are warranted by the kids' maturity and ability to adapt.

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07-04-2013, 06:34 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Most of the good players who are prospects have been playing in the big club's hockey schools for 5 or 6 years before they head to NA. Take Nichushkin for example. He has been in the Traktor hockey school since about 13. Its not so much the quantity of money that they have invested as it is that without that investment, the kid might be looking for a job as an auto mechanic. Look at the procession of young stars that the Traktor club alone has produced. Its the kids who have the talent, but its Traktor that holds the key to unlocking that talent.

Better contract terms might help, but its mostly the lure of the NA pot of gold as depicted by the agent that wants a share of it that lures the kids there. Glory too, of course. It should be up to the kid to decide, but there are way too many "opportunities" than are warranted by the kids' maturity and ability to adapt.
On the other hand, if you want to look at this in a broader perspective, how many kids under the age of 15 playing hockey in general become pro hockey players on any level? Are there any statistics on this about the hockey schools in Russia? Or at least which schools develop most "pro players"?

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07-05-2013, 02:23 AM
  #747
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Just make the 13-14 year old kids to sign 4-6 year contracts with their junior teams. If they refuse to sign the contract they are banned from playing junior hockey anywhere in Russia.

This would be an easy and simple solution to keep the best players in Russia until they are mature enough to leave.

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07-05-2013, 07:30 AM
  #748
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Just make the 13-14 year old kids to sign 4-6 year contracts with their junior teams. If they refuse to sign the contract they are banned from playing junior hockey anywhere in Russia.

This would be an easy and simple solution to keep the best players in Russia until they are mature enough to leave.
I can't see any parent allowing their child signing something like that or signing for them.

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07-05-2013, 11:37 AM
  #749
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On the other hand, if you want to look at this in a broader perspective, how many kids under the age of 15 playing hockey in general become pro hockey players on any level? Are there any statistics on this about the hockey schools in Russia? Or at least which schools develop most "pro players"?
I don't have any exact statistics, but obviously only a small minority of players who train in Russian hockey schools become pro players. Whereas in Canada and in parts of the USA, mass participation results in emergence of talented prospects, Russian hockey schools probably have to be much more selective in screening for talent and prospective skills in choosing from a smaller base for admission to hockey schools (the exception, of course, are the sons of the influential and affluent who can pay their own freight). Those who fail to make it are no doubt considered by the big club a cost of doing business, so to speak!

I haven't been able to find published data measuring the quality of hockey schools, but certain schools certainly stand out anecdotally as being very productive. Traktor Chelyabinsk is certainly one. Traktor has produced quality players over the years that would seem to far surpass the population base supporting their recruitment. Also, CSKA (particularly because of their ability to recruit talent from far-flung regions), Voskresensk, Togliatti, Khabarovsk, Yaroslavl, and even Penza, are among the schools that have produced more than their share of talent over time. If you want to get rich playing hockey, your best chance is to affiliate with one of those schools.

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07-13-2013, 10:37 PM
  #750
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North American major junior hockey can pay, for each season played in major junior, one year of college/university education for a player.

Do MHL-A have a similar educational arrangement with its players? I mean, many MHL-A players can't crack a VHL roster, let alone a KHL one.

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