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Deadline day thread... oh look, we do abso****inglutely nothing

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Old
02-28-2012, 08:56 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Well there were calls/offers being made for Skinner and Sutter. Maybe JR should have traded one of them to satisfy those who are complaining that nothing was done. Atleast this way, he didn't stand pat and did something.
Technically, even though they didn't happen yesterday, there were 3 pre-deadline trades: Poni to NJ, acquisition of Dadonov from FLA and the ridding of Kaberle who cost nothing in the way of assets as a UFA in the first place.

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02-28-2012, 09:05 AM
  #427
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02-28-2012, 09:16 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Well there were calls/offers being made for Skinner and Sutter. Maybe JR should have traded one of them to satisfy those who are complaining that nothing was done. Atleast this way, he didn't stand pat and did something.
Again, it depends on how active you believe JR was yesterday. Here's the sum of what he said yesterday:

- There were teams interested in Allen/Spacek. They called about their respective asking prices.
- There were no offers for Allen/Spacek
- He never approached Allen with regard to a contract extension, nor with regards to his NTC
- Teams called about the availability to Sutter/Skinner

I don't know about you, but to me, that sounds like JR

A: wasn't clear about who was available and who wasn't. Maybe if he hadn't dangled Gleason/Ruutu/Allen, then promptly ripped them away, there wouldn't have been that confusion.

And B: He wasn't actively trying to trade either player. He had no interest in trading Allen from the get-go, which is somewhat understandable (though less so considering the lack of progress regarding a contract extension). But from that info regarding Spacek, it sounds like he simply was asking too much for him. There were callings about his asking price, then no offers.

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02-28-2012, 09:35 AM
  #429
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it's amazing to me that people still think JR has a "plan" or that he is in anyway a competent GM. You don't make the playoffs once in 5 years if you have good plans and actually know what you are doing. Yes he was the manager when we won the cup once but how long are we going to let that stand as justification for every poor decision he has made since then? and now he's a partial owner! ****!!!!!!!!!! This organization! *&(#^)%&^&#%*&#*& %&^#%))#&%#&*)#& %#

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02-28-2012, 11:03 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
I'm watching the Rangers-Devils game right now, and if I'm JR I'm seeing if I can grab David Clarkson in the offseason.
Clarkson and Gleason hate eachother so I doubt this is a possibility.

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Have the Canes sent Murphy, Bowman, Samson, or Faulk down so they can play in the AHL playoffs? I think they need to be there today to qualify. Then called right back up.
You're right that guys have to be on the ahl clear-day roster to be eligible to play in the playoffs but there's a little known trade deadline rule that makes that trickier than it seems. In the nhl you're only allowed 4 callups (not including emergency recalls) after the deadline. So, yes, you could send those guys down to the ahl for an hour so they make the clear-day roster (a paper transaction) but you would then burn those 4 call-ups by bringing them back.

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02-28-2012, 11:13 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Again, it depends on how active you believe JR was yesterday. Here's the sum of what he said yesterday:

- There were teams interested in Allen/Spacek. They called about their respective asking prices.
- There were no offers for Allen/Spacek
- He never approached Allen with regard to a contract extension, nor with regards to his NTC
- Teams called about the availability to Sutter/Skinner
Its pretty easy to understand to me. For example: Hawks needed a defenseman. So they listed them out on their wants 1) Zidlicky 2) Oduya 3) Spacek. Well Zidlicky was taken. So they can cross him off the list. That leaves Oduya and Spacek. They place a call to Winnipeg and Carolina asking what it'll take. They have the picks Winnipeg wants so they get their #2 man. Therefore, no offer for Spacek is needed b/c they got their guy.

When Allen and Spacek are not the first or in Spacek's case second choice for teams, they'll call to inquire, but won't need to make an offer if they get their first choice.

If no offers come in for Allen, why even bother asking if he'll waive his NTC?

There's making a trade to help your club, then there's making a trade for the sake of making a trade. For me Spacek or Allen don't make this club that much better. And if they walk July 1st, so what, all we lost was a late round pick.

The assets that could have actually gotten us something to actually help this team in the future were Gleason and Ruutu. Once those guys were re-signed, I think we all pretty much figured and were in agreement that we wouldn't do much except move one of Allen or Spacek. And with no interest, that's pretty hard to do.

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02-28-2012, 11:19 AM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Well there were calls/offers being made for Skinner and Sutter. Maybe JR should have traded one of them to satisfy those who are complaining that nothing was done. Atleast this way, he didn't stand pat and did something.
Yeah, cause that makes any sense... Sarcasm should make sense and be relevant to be funny

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02-28-2012, 11:23 AM
  #433
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And I'm saying if JR was actively shopping Spacek, as in calling up other GMs and offering him rather than sitting back and waiting for takers, he could have moved him.

It may not have been for what JR believes is fair (Though frankly, anything received is better than nothing), but it would have moved Spacek and opened up a roster spot. It's exactly what Detroit did yesterday with Commodore. The return was irrelevant (though, since it's Detroit, a 7th rounder is the next Datsyuk).

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02-28-2012, 11:28 AM
  #434
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Who are you opening up a roster spot for?? Charlotte has 5 healthy dmen and we have 6 playing here until Joni comes back which is still no sure thing. Muller and JR have both made it clear they like what Joslin has brought to the fourth line so i dont even count him as a dman anymore.

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02-28-2012, 11:34 AM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Clarkson and Gleason hate eachother so I doubt this is a possibility.
Is Gleason really good enough in ANYONE's opinion to warrant carrying around this damn baggage of players that he "hates" that we can't make a part of the Canes? Granted, it's not a huge deal, but I think Ott would've fit well here, and obviously now Clarkson too.

Is there anyone else that Gleason hates that would make this team better? I heard Parise, Suter, and Nash ALL dumped Gleason's little sister in high school. Looks like that's why THEY won't be Canes...

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02-28-2012, 11:34 AM
  #436
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Sanguinetti? Plus charlotte has florida to recall from.

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02-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
Who are you opening up a roster spot for?? Charlotte has 5 healthy dmen and we have 6 playing here until Joni comes back which is still no sure thing. Muller and JR have both made it clear they like what Joslin has brought to the fourth line so i dont even count him as a dman anymore.
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Paul Branecky ‏ @PaulBranecky

With Ryan Murphy, Brian Dumoulin, Austin Levi and Danny Biega all candidates to join CLT for playoffs, things could get very crowded
Quote:
Paul Branecky ‏ @PaulBranecky

Very well and much improved from start. But, lots of competition on D RT @miikaarponen: How has Rissanen played? Have a shot in NHL soon?
And recently, Branecky's been pushing hard for Sanguinetti to get a shot in the NHL. But yeah, I can see how the term "crowded" could mean the cupboard is bare and we have no defenseman we could possibly call up

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02-28-2012, 11:56 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Sanguinetti? Plus charlotte has florida to recall from.
One of Charlotte's injured guys was a Florida recall. You cant bury your AHL team with crappy ECHLer while they are in a playoff push.....unless you are the Devils of course and you dont give a dman about your minor league teams. If they want to get a look at Bobby they will still be able to do it later in the season even with Spacek still here. And at that point Charlotte will be healthier and will likely have added some of Dumo, Levi, Biega, Murphy, or possibly Alt. Spacek isnt keeping Muller from getting a look at Bobby. JR and Kirk arent going to start late season prospect camp until the math eliminates them.

Its also possible that they just dont believe Bobby is an NHL dman. We of all team should know that AHL point totals dont mean anything in Raleigh, see Rodney or Aucoin. Ive seen the guy twice in person and twice on television this season,..he just doesnt come across as a clear cut NHL prospect. He still, at 24 years old, looks lost positionally in his own end regularly. That is just my personal opinion of course.

That said, i do hope he gets a look during the last few games for his benefit and for the benefit of this board's sanity.

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02-28-2012, 12:00 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
And recently, Branecky's been pushing hard for Sanguinetti to get a shot in the NHL. But yeah, I can see how the term "crowded" could mean the cupboard is bare and we have no defenseman we could possibly call up
Its Braneckys job to pimp Checkers so no surprise there. And it may be crowded by playoff time but it isnt until those kids seasons are over and they are all signed. Once that happens and we are eliminated if they want to give the kid a look they will. There will be roster room to bench Spacek if need be. Either way if Joni comes back, Spacek wont be playing anyways so Sanguinetti would have to knock out one of the regular six to play.

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02-28-2012, 12:03 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
And I'm saying if JR was actively shopping Spacek, as in calling up other GMs and offering him rather than sitting back and waiting for takers, he could have moved him.
I still think you're reading an awful lot into 2-3 words out of an entire press conference to come to this conclusion.

Besides, it's not guaranteed that JR could have moved Spacek, even if he put his heart and soul into it. Teams won't just take a player because we want them to.

Mike Commodore, age 32 and making $1m this year, was traded for basically nothing as a buddy-buddy move between two friendly GMs.

Who is going to take Jaro Spacek, age 38 and making $3.8m this year... and playing terribly on a bad team? He's not just a waste of a roster spot in Carolina, he's a waste of a roster spot anywhere. We would have to pay someone with a pick or prospect to make it happen.

Would you approve of Spacek + 4th to another team for future considerations, just so we can get a look at Sanguinetti?

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02-28-2012, 12:24 PM
  #441
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If teams just weren't accepting bad defensemen, then you'd have an argument with regards to paying a team to take him. But since defensemen like Commodore, Zanon, and Scott were on the move at a variety of prices, none of which involved the sellers adding onto the deal, I have no doubt we could have moved Spacek if the effort was put forth to do so.

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02-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #442
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But the point is, would you want a seventh round pick for Jaro? I mean maybe JR thinks he has enough picks lol...

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02-28-2012, 12:29 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Sanguinetti? Plus charlotte has florida to recall from.
Say we traded Spacek. That allows Joslin to move back to defense. Then Joni returns in 2 weeks. Where does Joslin go, either back to the 4th and that Checker goes back to Charlotte or he's in the pressbox.

Trading Spacek doesn't really open up a Sanguinetti. If the org has any interest in seeing Sangs here with the big club, they'll get him here regardless.

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02-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
If teams just weren't accepting bad defensemen, then you'd have an argument with regards to paying a team to take him. But since defensemen like Commodore, Zanon, and Scott were on the move at a variety of prices, none of which involved the sellers adding onto the deal, I have no doubt we could have moved Spacek if the effort was put forth to do so.
All three of the players listed have more trade value than Spacek. They are 29-31, carrying reasonable cap hits and are no worse than Spacek at either end of the rink. Commodore was just a backroom deal anyway, allowing Tampa and Detroit to tie up loose ends with regard to roster numbers. Zanon and Scott were signed to contending, high-payroll teams who weren't about to bring a Spacek into their cap equation.

The bottom line is that Spacek is completely worthless and very expensive. A team is not going to take a completely worthless and very expensive player just because JR calls them up and begs them to. We're lucky to be just stuck with Spacek and not Kaberle.

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02-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #445
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But the point is, would you want a seventh round pick for Jaro? I mean maybe JR thinks he has enough picks lol...
Frederik Andersen was picked with a 7th rounder. A seventh rounder can still be valuable. So to pass up a 7th rounder because "it's a 7th rounder" is ridiculous.

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02-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #446
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Why would Joslin move back to defense? He's under contract next year IIRC, Sanguinetti isn't.

When it comes to evaluating talent, Charlotte is going to suffer with ECHLers. That's just how it goes. Sorry that they're in a playoff push, but knowing what you have in these players is far more important. Why not give them as many games as possible? You may very well be right on him, but how would we know for certain without an audition? Sanguinetti being 24 tomorrow only furthers the point. If he proves valuable over the last 20 games, then you have an NHLer on your hands. If not, it's time to move on. This team already messed up once by not giving him a shot when Joslin had to fill in during Sang's near-franchise record point streak where his confidence was at an all-time high. I'd rather not see them do it again and lose him without even giving him the shot.

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02-28-2012, 12:41 PM
  #447
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Frederik Andersen was picked with a 7th rounder. A seventh rounder can still be valuable. So to pass up a 7th rounder because "it's a 7th rounder" is ridiculous.
I agree, but the larger point here is that we wouldn't get a 7th rounder for Spacek. Commodore was traded for a conditional 7th, the condition being Tampa makes the playoffs. And that was a more valuable player being exchanged between Ken Holland and Steve Yzerman.

To get Spacek out of here, we'd be the ones adding the pick and therefore potentially losing the next Andersen.

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02-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
All three of the players listed have more trade value than Spacek. They are 29-31, carrying reasonable cap hits and are no worse than Spacek at either end of the rink. Commodore was just a backroom deal anyway, allowing Tampa and Detroit to tie up loose ends with regard to roster numbers. Zanon and Scott were signed to contending, high-payroll teams who weren't about to bring a Spacek into their cap equation.

The bottom line is that Spacek is completely worthless and very expensive. A team is not going to take a completely worthless and very expensive player just because JR calls them up and begs them to. We're lucky to be just stuck with Spacek and not Kaberle.
Now I'm not 100% sure on the intricacies of the CBA, contracts, and all that, but wouldn't the team acquiring a player late in the season (say at the deadline) only have to pay the remainder of that player's contract? So since Spacek would only play around 20 games for the team (about 25% of the entire season), they'd only have to pay the remaining 25% of this year, since Carolina will pay the other 75% (or Montreal will pay 25% and Carolina 50%..or something). So it's not 3.8, it's 950k.

And we'll disagree about the players listed with regards to who's better. Spacek's better than Zanon on both sides of the ice, and while Spacek's not as big as Scott (who's really only got that working for him), he can play in much more roles. Age is irrelevant, since it's a UFA contract.

But that's all beside the point. The point is, Carolina had an asset with a short-term value at the deadline and no long-term value (possibly two, since JR's still not 100% on signing Allen), and he didn't move them. Anything gained from trading them would be long-term value, even if it's a longshot (ala 7th rounder).

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02-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #449
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Right, but Spacek's cap hit is still $3.8m and that's the relevant number to contending teams. Not to mention that we aren't talking about magic money here... someone actually has to write a $950,000 check to pay this guy to be a healthy scratch. Meaning a GM has to go to his owner and explain exactly what part of Jaro Spacek's game was worth a million dollars plus the assets necessary to acquire him.

I don't see why it's so hard to believe that nobody wanted the guy. He was traded for Kaberle for chrissake.

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02-28-2012, 12:55 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
All three of the players listed have more trade value than Spacek. They are 29-31, carrying reasonable cap hits and are no worse than Spacek at either end of the rink. Commodore was just a backroom deal anyway, allowing Tampa and Detroit to tie up loose ends with regard to roster numbers. Zanon and Scott were signed to contending, high-payroll teams who weren't about to bring a Spacek into their cap equation.

The bottom line is that Spacek is completely worthless and very expensive. A team is not going to take a completely worthless and very expensive player just because JR calls them up and begs them to. We're lucky to be just stuck with Spacek and not Kaberle.
Not only that but all 3 are Defensive-D's who aren't going to help the offense. Spacek is a PMD and the needs had already been met there by most contenders.

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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Spacek's better than Zanon on both sides of the ice, and while Spacek's not as big as Scott (who's really only got that working for him), he can play in much more roles. Age is irrelevant, since it's a UFA contract.

But that's all beside the point. The point is, Carolina had an asset with a short-term value at the deadline and no long-term value (possibly two, since JR's still not 100% on signing Allen), and he didn't move them. Anything gained from trading them would be long-term value, even if it's a longshot (ala 7th rounder).
No way is Spacek better than Zanon defensively, which was the primary need in Boston. Boston has enough PMD's and didn't need Spacek. If you want to insist that Spacek had short-term value, then I'd start with which team needed his skill set but failed to pull the trigger?

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