No, you're completely wrong. This isn't a video game where you can check people's attributes or something. Competence is one thing, but the searching process isn't just about checking resume's, it's also about getting to know the people, getting a feel for them, etc.
At some point, when people all have a certain level of competence, narrowing the field won't exactly cut off much more competent people.
Like I said, the only guy I feel we really made a blunder of not choosing despite the French stuff was Yzerman. You probably only get a chance at a guy like that every few years, so for it to fall at the time we're looking for a GM, well, it sucks.
I don't get your post. You're saying I'm wrong at the beginning and then saying that they should have hired the English candidate instead of the French one.
"At the point when people have the same level of competence" you're assuming they're all the same. I'm saying there may be a better candidate but he wont get a sniff because he's English. Just like Yzerman and PG. are they the same level of competence? I don't think they are.
please, do us a favor and tell us who are the AVAILABLE elite candidates you're speaking of ?
Nill, Benning etc. I'm not even saying they are better or not. I'm saying it's ridiculous that other candidates ant even considered.
Are you saying that out of all the candidates out there, the best candidate is French and there are no English candidates who can be better alternatives?
I don't get your post. You're saying I'm wrong at the beginning and then saying that they should have hired the English candidate instead of the French one.
"At the point when people have the same level of competence" you're assuming they're all the same. I'm saying there may be a better candidate but he wont get a sniff because he's English. Just like Yzerman and PG. are they the same level of competence? I don't think they are.
you may not think they are, byt SY have yet to show is eliteness as a GM...
Nill, Benning etc. I'm not even saying they are better or not. I'm saying it's ridiculous that other candidates ant even considered.
Are you saying that out of all the candidates out there, the best candidate is French and there are no English candidates who can be better alternatives?
you may not think they are, byt SY have yet to show is eliteness as a GM...
I never said he was. I said we should consider ALL options. If you don't agree then I just think you're ignorant and your world is about as big as the four walls around your house.
I don't get your post. You're saying I'm wrong at the beginning and then saying that they should have hired the English candidate instead of the French one.
"At the point when people have the same level of competence" you're assuming they're all the same. I'm saying there may be a better candidate but he wont get a sniff because he's English. Just like Yzerman and PG. are they the same level of competence? I don't think they are.
What?
My first point was that it was stupid to use the French criteria wholesale. The second part was that the French criteria generally doesn't filter great talent, since there's generally similarly competent French people to hire.
Like I said, in all the years of hiring French people exclusively, except for mindless nominations like Houle and Tremblay, we've only really made a serious mistake (in my opinion) when we didn't pick Yzerman simply because he was a great player, groomed by the greatest organization in the modern NHL. But saying we would've hired much better people in the other cases by not discriminating is absurd. We hired competent people, they just didn't get it done.
Like Bob Gainey was clearly a very competent person (probably the best candidate possible). He didn't make it happen for us. On the other hand, a guy like Brian Burke who was assumed to be the absolute best possible GM for the Maple Leafs couldn't make it work for them either. It's not simply the highest profile guy is the best, and in most cases, you can get guys who you feel extremely comfortable handing over the job who can speak French.
Reality TV show produced by Quebecor that had players all over Quebec trying to make it into two teams, one from Montreal, one from Quebec and the two teams would face each other in a tournament. They would hire known figures as coachs like Guy Carbonneau with ass. Patrice Brisebois and Serge Boisvert for Montreal and Michel Bergeron with ass. Gilbert Delorme and Michel Goulet for Quebec. They had cameras everywhere to watch things happen, it was not heavily edited like HBO 24/7. In this you would see everything. The camera was close enough to see Bergie lose it one night and he had to apologizes and he quit. He was then replaced by Bob Hartley who had a verbal brouhaha with Patrice Brisebois as you saw there.
My first point was that it was stupid to use the French criteria wholesale. The second part was that the French criteria generally doesn't filter great talent, since there's generally similarly competent French people to hire.
Like I said, in all the years of hiring French people exclusively, except for mindless nominations like Houle and Tremblay, we've only really made a serious mistake (in my opinion) when we didn't pick Yzerman simply because he was a great player, groomed by the greatest organization in the modern NHL. But saying we would've hired much better people in the other cases by not discriminating is absurd. We hired competent people, they just didn't get it done.
Like Bob Gainey was clearly a very competent person (probably the best candidate possible). He didn't make it happen for us. On the other hand, a guy like Brian Burke who was assumed to be the absolute best possible GM for the Maple Leafs couldn't make it work for them either. It's not simply the highest profile guy is the best, and in most cases, you can get guys who you feel extremely comfortable handing over the job who can speak French.
I never said the highest profile was the best. Read what I am trying to say as I've spelt it out in several posts. You must consider any and all candidates to have the best odds of hiring the best one. Could that person be French, absolutely, he could be. But if you only look at French candidates then your limiting your pool. This is isn't controversial, this isn't far fetched, this is a fact. Period.
I think it's stupid to apply the idea in a generalized fashion, but once you get down to it, it's quite rare to have clear cut elite candidates for coaching and front office positions.
The only time I think we really screwed the pooch when it came to choosing someone and the French factor making it a really bad case was when we named Gauthier and Steve Yzerman was available (he even said he would've loved to come here if I recall correctly). But I think that had more to do with organizational continuity than actually going to find the best guy for the job.
What they did there was WORSE than only looking for french guys. Gauthier was Gainey's asisstant and Gainey handpicked him to replace him. Like the Maffia. There was zero recuitement drive of sort to find the best guy. What's funny is that Gauthier himself did the same thing in hiring Cunneyworth.
I never said the highest profile was the best. Read what I am trying to say as I've spelt it out in several posts. You must consider any and all candidates to have the best odds of hiring the best one. Could that person be French, absolutely, he could be. But if you only look at French candidates then your limiting your pool. This is isn't controversial, this isn't far fetched, this is a fact. Period.
I never said to not interview English speaking candidates, I said in the end, you're likely to get roughly equally competent people and picking a French one amongst the guys you made a shortlist of isn't going to kill your organization. It's just the right thing to do.
I never said to not interview English speaking candidates, I said in the end, you're likely to get roughly equally competent people and picking a French one amongst the guys you made a shortlist of isn't going to kill your organization. It's just the right thing to do.
You never said it but current ownership and management did. Thats what's think is riduculous.
No offense but I don't really care what you think as your not a shot caller.
And saying that you'll get roughly the same quality and and won't kill your organization is not based in reality. What if we only drafted French players? Do you think we'de still OT kill the franchise? You probably wouldn't but it would. BPC is the only way to go when building a team, management, front office etc. again, this isn't an opinion, it a fact. When you limit your. Hoaxes, you limit your ability to make the best choice.
Naming Houle and Tremblay damn near killed this franchise. I bet you wouldve said the same comment before hiring them. They wont kill our franchise...
You never said it but current ownership and management did. Thats what's think is riduculous.
No offense but I don't really care what you think as your not a shot caller.
And saying that you'll get roughly the same quality and and won't kill your organization is not based in reality. What if we only drafted French players? Do you think we'de still OT kill the franchise? You probably wouldn't but it would. BPC is the only way to go when building a team, management, front office etc. again, this isn't an opinion, it a fact. When you limit your. Hoaxes, you limit your ability to make the best choice.
Naming Houle and Tremblay damn near killed this franchise. I bet you wouldve said the same comment before hiring them. They wont kill our franchise...
Dude cmon. He's saying if 2 candidates are the same, pick the Quebecois.
You never said it but current ownership and management did. Thats what's think is riduculous.
No offense but I don't really care what you think as your not a shot caller.
And saying that you'll get roughly the same quality and and won't kill your organization is not based in reality. What if we only drafted French players? Do you think we'de still OT kill the franchise? You probably wouldn't but it would. BPC is the only way to go when building a team, management, front office etc. again, this isn't an opinion, it a fact. When you limit your. Hoaxes, you limit your ability to make the best choice.
Naming Houle and Tremblay damn near killed this franchise. I bet you wouldve said the same comment before hiring them. They wont kill our franchise...
You seem to be quite dense.
Let me explain. AGAIN. It is quite rare that elite candidates come up. It is also common to have adequate French candidates. So it is quite easy to pick French candidates when you're quite sure the guys on your shortlist all have similar ability.
The draft part is incredibly stupid, since some players are clearly better than others. So why would we only pick francophone players when there's a clearly better player available?
The Houle and Tremblay hirings have nothing to do with this discussion, as they were both clearly incompetent for the duties they were handed.
Let me explain. AGAIN. It is quite rare that elite candidates come up. It is also common to have adequate French candidates. So it is quite easy to pick French candidates when you're quite sure the guys on your shortlist all have similar ability.
The draft part is incredibly stupid, since some players are clearly better than others. So why would we only pick francophone players when there's a clearly better player available?
If you don't understand this, I give up.
I think you're the thick one.
How can they narrow down the pool of candidates when they NEVER had anyone else but French people. Why are you not able to see this? Management has come out and said publicly that they would only consider FRENCH speaking candidates. If you only have French candidates then you can only chose a French candidate. Any English person who could have been a better option would never have been involved in any part of the process and therefore would never even be an option.
Bykov's other key attribute is a fluency in French. At the end of his playing career in the old Soviet Union, he was rewarded with the chance to play for Fribourg-Gotteron in Switzerland. He learned to speak French and is a dual Swiss-Russian citizen.
There would have been drawbacks if Bykov had landed in Montreal. For starters, he doesn't speak English, the lingua franca of the NHL.
