Del Zotto was in trade proposals until November. Gaborik got trashed all last season.
Wasn't Griardi hated by a huge contingent of fans up until last year? Fans were impatient with Staal's progress this season. Dubinsky is being treated like everyone. There will be a day when Stepan, McDonagh and Hagelin get the same treatment.
There's a logjam and Dubinsky happens to be on the outside of the top six. You just can't expect much offensive production from him when he's on a line with Prust and Boyle. Contrary to popular belief, Dubi really hasn't had much of a chance.
Flaws and all, if there is one thing you can say about this Rangers team, it's that over the past several years, if you earn time, you tend to get time.
I like Dubinsky, always have, but the fact of the matter is that he looks lost this year. Frankly, there's no reason he shouldn't be a 30 goal, 60-70 point player; he has the talent. But Dubinsky tends to get into these funks or stretches where he goes off the reservation and his game usually goes with him.
He's bigger and more talented than Callahan. There's no reason he shouldn't be a better player. But for all their similarities, Callahan has become the type of player that Dubinsky SHOULD be.
I wasn't a big fan of Dubinsky fighting last night, but Torts has said in the past that fighting has helped his game, so perhaps he's gotten a bit overzealous in that aspect.
After Dubi fought Sestito in early February:
Quote:
"That’s a big part of his game," coach John Tortorella said. "It’s not always about fighting [but] I’m glad he fought. I think it helps his game."
You cant give up on a guy who has been one of the best players since Jagr left. He's coming off a career season, and you have to give him a chance at redemption in the playoffs.
If the trend continues, you get rid of him next season. His skill set will always appeal to other GM's, and he can be a top-6 forward on most teams looking to rebuild/contend for the playoffs.
I think we're all just sad watching him struggle. Torts has no personal beef with Dubinsky. Dubinsky has been one of the biggest ice eaters since Torts took over in 2009.
As many have said -- Dubi is the only one to blame for his struggles.
Del Zotto hardly got a free pass. People were trashing him all season and said he was a fluke, or that he'd never be a NHL regular. Regardless, Del Zotto was a 20 year old in his second year of professional hockey. That means he has room to grow. If this was Dubinsky's second season, he'd be getting the same slack. How do I know that? I was around for his second season and remember the hundreds of posts saying "He's still young, he'll find consistency to his game" or "These are just growing pains."
Gaborik is a proven goal scorer. A "down" year for him was as good as Dubinsky's best season until last year (and had he not been injured, likely would have been just as productive as Dubi was). Dubinsky has never brought the level of offense that Gaborik has proven that he can bring to our lineup. A player with that kind of talent, and that kind of track record, gets the benefit of the doubt.
As you stated, that wasn't me who said that, but that doesn't mean I'd be opposed to moving Dubinsky off the books if it meant being able to fit a Parise, Nash, or Ryan on the team.
In all likelihood, we can fit one of those players without getting rid of Dubinsky.
And why does Gaborik get the "benefit of the doubt" because he has talent and a track record of scoring, but Dubinsky doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for having the physical play, penalty-kill and defensive ability, and a track record of stepping up in the playoffs? Not to mention, he scored 54 points last year with Anisimov as his center...
Dubinsky deserves the same amount of patience and an opportunity to redeem himself that Gaborik or DZ or anyone else got.
He scored 50 points after having 10 goals in his first 13 games.
What it looks like happened is me, and everyone else on this board overrated Dubi. I said he was a good 2nd liner who could fake his way on the top line with Gabby and/or Richie, but it looks like he's a good third liner who can fake his way on the second line. And this season he's not faking anything.
You cant give up on a guy who has been one of the best players since Jagr left. He's coming off a career season, and you have to give him a chance at redemption in the playoffs.
If the trend continues, you get rid of him next season. His skill set will always appeal to other GM's, and he can be a top-6 forward on most teams looking to rebuild/contend for the playoffs.
I think we're all just sad watching him struggle. Torts has no personal beef with Dubinsky. Dubinsky has been one of the biggest ice eaters since Torts took over in 2009.
As many have said -- Dubi is the only one to blame for his struggles.
I hope he picks it up. Dubi has been a huge part of this teams success in the past, and to just throw him away because he is having a bad year would be stupid. The guy still has skill and has been very important to this team's success regardless of his lackluster offensive performance
I'd give him 15 games next season and then I move him if he has not played better than of late unless somebody takes him in a trade in the Summer . If he does not play on the top 6 he won't put up much for numbers with grinders playing with him . I think he definitely should forget about the fighting or find a way to bulk up...and most hockey players have that figured out . The injury he received last night might be a blessing in disguise as it gives him a chance to sit and watch the team play . He certainly has lost all confidence in his offensive game and simply sitting and watching...could solve the problem...one can hope for that !
I'd give him 15 games next season and then I move him if he has not played better than of late unless somebody takes him in a trade in the Summer . If he does not play on the top 6 he won't put up much for numbers with grinders playing with him . I think he definitely should forget about the fighting or find a way to bulk up...and most hockey players have that figured out . The injury he received last night might be a blessing in disguise as it gives him a chance to sit and watch the team play . He certainly has lost all confidence in his offensive game and simply sitting and watching...could solve the problem...one can hope for that !
Ehh...maybe. Although when he injured his shoulder, he watched the team play, and looked horrible when he came back.
So we'll see where this goes.
Ill always have a soft spot for Dubi and push for him to score every big goal. I hate the way everyone turns on a player year...last year with del zotto and gaborik. Chill out. The guy has talent and 50+ point per year potential.
That being said how much scoring do you expect with boyle and prust. There is a logjam at the top 6 and unfortunately he is on the outside looking in, thats just how it has to be right now. Im hoping he plays well in these last 17 games and comes along clutch in the playoffs.
The biggest difference between Dubinsky and Callahan is that Cally has icewater in his veins. He makes a bad play (and let's be honest, he's made a bunch on the defensive side of the puck this year), and it's out of his head before the shift is over. Dubinsky makes a bad mistake, and we're lucky if it's out of his head by the end of the week. He puts more pressure on himself than anyone else.
I just want to add two things to this discussion, one that has been said by others and one that needs to be recognized:
1st- The Rangers started that game against the Devils playing like ****. Dubinsky tried to do something to change the tone of the game early so it wouldn't spin out of control. Does it suck that none of the three fighters on the team did it instead? Yeah. Does it suck that it resulted in Dubi getting hurt? Yeah. It was still the right thing for Dubinsky to do at that time. People crapping on him for it are basically crapping on him for showing leadership, and that says more about you than it does about him.
2nd- I notice people (the same people ) commenting as if Dubinsky is a finished product. I think we're spoiled playing in the Atlantic. We've seen too many players walk into the league at 18 years of age and start out as top players. For 90% of the players in the league, that's not how it works. Just for ***** and giggles, take a look at the production history of most of the 2nd liners in this league. Take a look at what they accomplished before the age of 25. Dubinsky is exceptionally well accomplished for his age, and there is no reason to assume that he's done getting better (where would SJ have been if they'd taken that approach with Clowe, who you all seem to love?). Dubinsky is a former 2nd round pick. His best years are still ahead of him.
The biggest difference between Dubinsky and Callahan is that Cally has icewater in his veins. He makes a bad play (and let's be honest, he's made a bunch on the defensive side of the puck this year), and it's out of his head before the shift is over. Dubinsky makes a bad mistake, and we're lucky if it's out of his head by the end of the week. He puts more pressure on himself than anyone else.
I just want to add two things to this discussion, one that has been said by others and one that needs to be recognized:
1st- The Rangers started that game against the Devils playing like ****. Dubinsky tried to do something to change the tone of the game early so it wouldn't spin out of control. Does it suck that none of the three fighters on the team did it instead? Yeah. Does it suck that it resulted in Dubi getting hurt? Yeah. It was still the right thing for Dubinsky to do at that time. People crapping on him for it are basically crapping on him for showing leadership, and that says more about you than it does about him.
2nd- I notice people (the same people ) commenting as if Dubinsky is a finished product. I think we're spoiled playing in the Atlantic. We've seen too many players walk into the league at 18 years of age and start out as top players. For 90% of the players in the league, that's not how it works. Just for ***** and giggles, take a look at the production history of most of the 2nd liners in this league. Take a look at what they accomplished before the age of 25. Dubinsky is exceptionally well accomplished for his age, and there is no reason to assume that he's done getting better (where would SJ have been if they'd taken that approach with Clowe, who you all seem to love?). Dubinsky is a former 2nd round pick. His best years are still ahead of him.
this is why i wouldnt trade Dubinsky...Rangers dont have that power forward type and he is the closest thing to it and no Chris Kreider isnt a power forward and plays a different game than Dubinsky...Kreider doesnt fight play aggressive or play with grit like Dubinsky does...still hope Kreider comes to the Rangers as soon as school ends...the playoffs can only help him..
The biggest difference between Dubinsky and Callahan is that Cally has icewater in his veins. He makes a bad play (and let's be honest, he's made a bunch on the defensive side of the puck this year), and it's out of his head before the shift is over. Dubinsky makes a bad mistake, and we're lucky if it's out of his head by the end of the week. He puts more pressure on himself than anyone else.
I just want to add two things to this discussion, one that has been said by others and one that needs to be recognized:
1st- The Rangers started that game against the Devils playing like ****. Dubinsky tried to do something to change the tone of the game early so it wouldn't spin out of control. Does it suck that none of the three fighters on the team did it instead? Yeah. Does it suck that it resulted in Dubi getting hurt? Yeah. It was still the right thing for Dubinsky to do at that time. People crapping on him for it are basically crapping on him for showing leadership, and that says more about you than it does about him.
2nd- I notice people (the same people ) commenting as if Dubinsky is a finished product. I think we're spoiled playing in the Atlantic. We've seen too many players walk into the league at 18 years of age and start out as top players. For 90% of the players in the league, that's not how it works. Just for ***** and giggles, take a look at the production history of most of the 2nd liners in this league. Take a look at what they accomplished before the age of 25. Dubinsky is exceptionally well accomplished for his age, and there is no reason to assume that he's done getting better (where would SJ have been if they'd taken that approach with Clowe, who you all seem to love?). Dubinsky is a former 2nd round pick. His best years are still ahead of him.
Well said, and I agree with almost everything. I just think Dubinsky should try to "change the tone of the game" by holding onto the puck and powering it to the net or taking more shots or throwing a big clean hit. Taking yourself off the ice for 5 minutes doesn't help. It actually disrupts the flow of the lines. If he was taking Kovalchuk off the ice with him, then it's a different story, but Ryan Carter? Who? Exactly.
Well said, and I agree with almost everything. I just think Dubinsky should try to "change the tone of the game" by holding onto the puck and powering it to the net or taking more shots or throwing a big clean hit. Taking yourself off the ice for 5 minutes doesn't help. It actually disrupts the flow of the lines. If he was taking Kovalchuk off the ice with him, then it's a different story, but Ryan Carter? Who? Exactly.
At that point in the game, already down by one, the whole team coming out flat (again)--it needed to be done. Honestly, it reminded me of the game last year when Ovechkin took on Dubinsky. Sometimes it sends a bigger message to the rest of the team when a non-fighter (or an occasional fighter) throws the gloves down. A staged fight becomes commonplace and often doesn't really fire up the team. The team needed a kick in the ass and Dubinsky tried to do just that. Again--I hate the way it turned out, but as a coach--I love what he tried to do there.
Edited to add--it's also not like that was the first move Dubinsky made. He'd already had a shot on goal when he got knocked out (in like 40 seconds of ice-time). Sometimes the only way to inspire desire is to demonstrate desire.
The biggest difference between Dubinsky and Callahan is that Cally has icewater in his veins. He makes a bad play (and let's be honest, he's made a bunch on the defensive side of the puck this year), and it's out of his head before the shift is over. Dubinsky makes a bad mistake, and we're lucky if it's out of his head by the end of the week. He puts more pressure on himself than anyone else.
I just want to add two things to this discussion, one that has been said by others and one that needs to be recognized:
1st- The Rangers started that game against the Devils playing like ****. Dubinsky tried to do something to change the tone of the game early so it wouldn't spin out of control. Does it suck that none of the three fighters on the team did it instead? Yeah. Does it suck that it resulted in Dubi getting hurt? Yeah. It was still the right thing for Dubinsky to do at that time. People crapping on him for it are basically crapping on him for showing leadership, and that says more about you than it does about him.
2nd- I notice people (the same people ) commenting as if Dubinsky is a finished product. I think we're spoiled playing in the Atlantic. We've seen too many players walk into the league at 18 years of age and start out as top players. For 90% of the players in the league, that's not how it works. Just for ***** and giggles, take a look at the production history of most of the 2nd liners in this league. Take a look at what they accomplished before the age of 25. Dubinsky is exceptionally well accomplished for his age, and there is no reason to assume that he's done getting better (where would SJ have been if they'd taken that approach with Clowe, who you all seem to love?). Dubinsky is a former 2nd round pick. His best years are still ahead of him.
Yeah, I completely agree. I think he thinks too much for his own good. I think he just needs to reset, maybe the playoffs can do that for him. If not I think the offseason will be good for him, get a chance to get away for a bit and not think about what he should be thinking about when he's out there. He needs to get out of his own head and just play, but once you get deep in there you can't reason yourself out it just brings you deeper.
In all likelihood, we can fit one of those players without getting rid of Dubinsky.
And why does Gaborik get the "benefit of the doubt" because he has talent and a track record of scoring, but Dubinsky doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for having the physical play, penalty-kill and defensive ability, and a track record of stepping up in the playoffs? Not to mention, he scored 54 points last year with Anisimov as his center...
Dubinsky deserves the same amount of patience and an opportunity to redeem himself that Gaborik or DZ or anyone else got.
If one of those players is acquired, Dubinsky will either be gone shortly after, or will be gone sometime in 2013.
You cut Gaborik more slack because he's a proven goal scorer. He's shown several times in his career that he can score goals in huge numbers. Dubinsky has proven he can top 50 points one time. The physical play, the PK (which he now has a reduced role in btw) and playoff numbers are all well and good, but if he can't find a way to score goals, we can find someone else to do those other things for a much cheaper price.
Dubinsky is getting the same amount of patience and opportunity that those guys got. In fact, he's getting more of each from most people. He had a good season last year, and because of it, he was rewarded with a big contract extension. Now, he's expected to repeat or improve on those numbers consistently for the duration of the deal. That's how these things work.
I've never been a "fan" of Dubinsky. Not because I think he's a bad player, but because he's the kind of player that keeps himself from getting to the next level. He was gift-wrapped a top-six role with one of the best play making centers in the league, and has since played himself into 15 minutes a game on the 3rd and 4th lines. It's like Edge said earlier; There is no reason he shouldn't be a 30-30 guy who kills penalties, hits, and means the world to this team and it's fans. Yet, year after year we have the same debates over why he's not. The organization thought he could be that guy so they gave him a big contract. 9 months later they're dangling him in a deal for Rick Nash. If they're disappointed in his play, there's no reason I can't be as well.
Dubi has been given the opportunity to redeem himself. He wasn't traded at the deadline and is guaranteed to be with this team through the playoff run. Still, he's shown little to no improvement in his game since the deadline passed, and despite a few stints with Richards as his center, he's found himself back with the likes of Boyle and Prust. The real issue with Dubinsky has always been the fact that he's given opportunity after opportunity to be an impact player, but he is never able to make the jump.
If one of those players is acquired, Dubinsky will either be gone shortly after, or will be gone sometime in 2013.
You cut Gaborik more slack because he's a proven goal scorer. He's shown several times in his career that he can score goals in huge numbers. Dubinsky has proven he can top 50 points one time. The physical play, the PK (which he now has a reduced role in btw) and playoff numbers are all well and good, but if he can't find a way to score goals, we can find someone else to do those other things for a much cheaper price.
Dubinsky is getting the same amount of patience and opportunity that those guys got. In fact, he's getting more of each from most people. He had a good season last year, and because of it, he was rewarded with a big contract extension. Now, he's expected to repeat or improve on those numbers consistently for the duration of the deal. That's how these things work.
I've never been a "fan" of Dubinsky. Not because I think he's a bad player, but because he's the kind of player that keeps himself from getting to the next level. He was gift-wrapped a top-six role with one of the best play making centers in the league, and has since played himself into 15 minutes a game on the 3rd and 4th lines. It's like Edge said earlier; There is no reason he shouldn't be a 30-30 guy who kills penalties, hits, and means the world to this team and it's fans. Yet, year after year we have the same debates over why he's not. The organization thought he could be that guy so they gave him a big contract. 9 months later they're dangling him in a deal for Rick Nash. If they're disappointed in his play, there's no reason I can't be as well.
Dubi has been given the opportunity to redeem himself. He wasn't traded at the deadline and is guaranteed to be with this team through the playoff run. Still, he's shown little to no improvement in his game since the deadline passed, and despite a few stints with Richards as his center, he's found himself back with the likes of Boyle and Prust. The real issue with Dubinsky has always been the fact that he's given opportunity after opportunity to be an impact player, but he is never able to make the jump.
I wonder if there's a thread on the Black Hawks board about trading Patrick Kane. He's in his 5th year, have a career-worst season, on pace for 65 points but getting paid $6 million.
And no, I'm not saying Dubinsky is as good as Kane. I'm saying off-years exist. This isn't a video game.
) commenting as if Dubinsky is a finished product. I think we're spoiled playing in the Atlantic. We've seen too many players walk into the league at 18 years of age and start out as top players. For 90% of the players in the league, that's not how it works. Just for ***** and giggles, take a look at the production history of most of the 2nd liners in this league. Take a look at what they accomplished before the age of 25. Dubinsky is exceptionally well accomplished for his age, and there is no reason to assume that he's done getting better (where would SJ have been if they'd taken that approach with Clowe, who you all seem to love?). Dubinsky is a former 2nd round pick. His best years are still ahead of him.
