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Let's talk about Brandon Dubinsky.

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03-07-2012, 03:05 PM
  #201
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The biggest issue I have with Dubinsky, is I really don't know what he is. Is he a great checking line player? Is he a serviceable second line player?

I've always had questions about what his offensive upside is.
That's what makes him so special. That he's not one dimensional. At his best he's been a very defensively responsible power forward. That term seems to mean different things to different people, but the way I'm using it I mean he's strong on the puck, tough to knock off, good in the corners and along the boards. He's shown some playmaking ability as well, and a decent shot. His ability to carry the puck is great, last year he seemed to be the only forward that could hold onto the puck for any length of time on our roster during the playoffs.

There's a reason why other teams want him now, and have wanted him in the past. I'm confident he'll come back strong next year. I'm skeptical we'll see if for the rest of the reg season, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he shows up big in the postseason.

I think at this point it's all mental with him. I could be 100% wrong, but that's just the sense I get from watching him throughout his career and listening to him during interviews.

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03-07-2012, 03:08 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The difference is that Callahan knows how to play HIS game. Dubinsky has never understood that in order for him to be successful offensively he has to keep hi game simple, hit, and drive to the net. He has had problems with it since he got called up from the 'Pack. Nothing has changed.

It is why he is having such a difficult season. He needs to sit down and just watch tape of what got him good results. Hit, skate hard, back-check and drive the puck to the net. He is NOT a skilled player and in the past he has looked like that is what he thought he was. This season it is the exact opposite swing, he looks like he wants to be a pure grinder.
I think you're not giving him enough credit for what he can do holding onto the puck. I think that might be his most valuable offensive attribute. He's incredible strong holding onto the puck.

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03-07-2012, 03:08 PM
  #203
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He's got the talent and the touch to be a top-six player. He's clearly going through the motions this season. If he's stuck in the same rut next year, then consider moving him for another player that needs a change in environment. But I'm more than happy to keep him around and I expect him to put up 50+ next year.

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03-07-2012, 03:11 PM
  #204
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I once thought Dubi could become a poor mans Adam Deadmarsh, but I'd don't think that's reachable now.

I'm not giving up on Dubi, guy's got guts and heart. You can't forget the Dark Years, some of the most heartless teams ever iced.

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03-07-2012, 03:13 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
He's got the talent and the touch to be a top-six player. He's clearly going through the motions this season. If he's stuck in the same rut next year, then consider moving him for another player that needs a change in environment. But I'm more than happy to keep him around and I expect him to put up 50+ next year.
I don't see a whole lot of scoring touch. And that's not based off his performance this season. He's best suited scoring garbage goals around the net. I also think he also lacks hockey sense and an idea who he is as a player.

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03-07-2012, 03:17 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't see a whole lot of scoring touch. And that's not based off his performance this season. He's best suited scoring garbage goals around the net. I also think he also lacks hockey sense and an idea who he is as a player.
I think when he's at his best he's creating chances for other guys more than lighting the lamp himself.

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03-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #207
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Home grown players are not above criticism. The "holier-than-thou" attitude some people are portraying is quite silly. It's not about "loyalty" or "vendettas." It's about a guy being paid as a scoring forward, but has only put up a whopping 7 goals this season and has managed to play himself out of a top-9 role.

If expecting Dubinsky to be, at the very least, the player he was last season makes me "disloyal" than I'm happy to wear that moniker. He doesn't get a pass from me because he's home grown, or part of the "core" of the team.

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03-07-2012, 03:41 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Home grown players are not above criticism. The "holier-than-thou" attitude some people are portraying is quite silly. It's not about "loyalty" or "vendettas." It's about a guy being paid as a scoring forward, but has only put up a whopping 7 goals this season and has managed to play himself out of a top-9 role.

If expecting Dubinsky to be, at the very least, the player he was last season makes me "disloyal" than I'm happy to wear that moniker. He doesn't get a pass from me because he's home grown, or part of the "core" of the team.
Loyalty/disloyalty aside, the main problem with your camp is you're pretending this year is all he has ever been and all he will ever be. You're not properly evaluating the player. It's like you didn't watch him play until this year...

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03-07-2012, 03:41 PM
  #209
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No he doesn't. If so, please explain to me why his line mates are named Rupp and Scott!
That's a case?

His linematrs are Rupp, Boyle, Scott, and anyone else in the lineup Tortorella feels like.

He isn't scoring, he's still busting his ass, still has strong board play, still plays physical, still contributes in other facets of the game.


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03-07-2012, 03:43 PM
  #210
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No mincing words.
And then he gave him top line minutes the very next game in which he scored a big goal.

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03-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Home grown players are not above criticism. The "holier-than-thou" attitude some people are portraying is quite silly. It's not about "loyalty" or "vendettas." It's about a guy being paid as a scoring forward, but has only put up a whopping 7 goals this season and has managed to play himself out of a top-9 role.

If expecting Dubinsky to be, at the very least, the player he was last season makes me "disloyal" than I'm happy to wear that moniker. He doesn't get a pass from me because he's home grown, or part of the "core" of the team.
Yep.

He got his payday and then absolutely disappeared. Very alarming.

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03-07-2012, 04:01 PM
  #212
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He's overpaid based on this season's production.

He has maturity issues.

But using linemates and other player's waiver status as a basis for who and who not to fight on the ice are ridiculous arguments.

He's still doing the other things he's always done.

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03-07-2012, 04:08 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Loyalty/disloyalty aside, the main problem with your camp is you're pretending this year is all he has ever been and all he will ever be. You're not properly evaluating the player. It's like you didn't watch him play until this year...
Actually, what I'm doing is saying he's been lousy this year because he has been lousy this year. I'm not "pretending" he has scored 7 goals after signing a major extension. That is the reality you're choosing to ignore because he was good last year, and could be good again in the future.

Hoping a guy can get out of a 5 or 6 game slump is one thing, but Dubinsky has been ineffective all year. If he turns it around next year? Awesome, but it sure as hell doesn't help us now. His ass was on the block for Rick Nash because he put it there himself, not because people are improperly evaluating him.

He's been demoted, benched, and dangled as trade bait, yet he's still not producing on the ice and has done nothing to work himself back into the top-six. If he was really "doing all the little things" he wouldn't be in the doghouse right now.

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03-07-2012, 04:31 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Yep.

He got his payday and then absolutely disappeared. Very alarming.
I'm not sure if your insinuating that his play is subpar because of his payday but if you are, I disagree. When I watch Dubinsky, I don't see a player that has become lazy or content in mediocrity. I see a player that has lost his game & is unable to get himself back going again. Also, I see a player that's possibly on the outs with his coach?

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03-07-2012, 05:24 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Home grown players are not above criticism. The "holier-than-thou" attitude some people are portraying is quite silly. It's not about "loyalty" or "vendettas." It's about a guy being paid as a scoring forward, but has only put up a whopping 7 goals this season and has managed to play himself out of a top-9 role.

If expecting Dubinsky to be, at the very least, the player he was last season makes me "disloyal" than I'm happy to wear that moniker. He doesn't get a pass from me because he's home grown, or part of the "core" of the team.
Sure, but how come Gaborik and Del Zotto get free passes and get another season to bounce back, but so many posters, including you who actually said "I'm fine with trading Dubinsky for whatever we can get and then go after Parise" have given up on a team-first, heart and soul player who by far our best forward in the last two playoff series.

Why the hell should we trade Dubinsky for "whatever we can get?"

How is that smart asset management? Nobody's pretending he isn't having an awful year, but I think the way he's stepped up in the playoffs and last year in the regular season (scoring 54 points in 77 games playing with Anisimov and Callahan who are solid players but not exactly first liners) has earned him at least the first half of next year to find his game and regain some confidence. To give up on him and trade him for the sake of trading him is one of the most short-sighted and ill-advised suggestions I've seen in a while. If there's a trade on the table for Nash or Ryan and Dubinsky is the main cog of the deal, then sure, that can be justified. But to simply trade him because you want the cap space to HOPE you can sign Parise is just horrible asset management, and thankfully Glen Sather isn't as fickle and short-sighted as the HF crowd.

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03-07-2012, 05:27 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Sure, but how come Gaborik and Del Zotto get free passes and get another season to bounce back, but so many posters, including you who actually said "I'm fine with trading Dubinsky for whatever we can get and then go after Parise" have given up on a team-first, heart and soul player who by far our best forward in the last two playoff series.

Why the hell should we trade Dubinsky for "whatever we can get?"

How is that smart asset management? Nobody's pretending he isn't having an awful year, but I think the way he's stepped up in the playoffs and last year in the regular season (scoring 54 points in 77 games playing with Anisimov and Callahan who are solid players but not exactly first liners) has earned him at least the first half of next year to find his game and regain some confidence. To give up on him and trade him for the sake of trading him is one of the most short-sighted and ill-advised suggestions I've seen in a while. If there's a trade on the table for Nash or Ryan and Dubinsky is the main cog of the deal, then sure, that can be justified. But to simply trade him because you want the cap space to HOPE you can sign Parise is just horrible asset management, and thankfully Glen Sather isn't as fickle and short-sighted as the HF crowd.
Errr my apologies. It was NYR Boyler87 who said that; not you. Got my mods confused

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03-07-2012, 05:29 PM
  #217
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I could understand the whining if he had a real bad +/- but he doesn't. His line tends to win shifts and he hasn't exactly been put in a lot of positions to succeed this year.

Don't give me that, "he played his way onto the fourth line bs". He looked great the past two games and it didn't stop Torts from putting him right back onto the fourth line.

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03-07-2012, 05:36 PM
  #218
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Yep.

He got his payday and then absolutely disappeared. Very alarming.
I'm interested to know if you think it's a lack of effort that's causing his slump. That's the only way I would buy into the idea that the contract has anything to do with his lack of offense. I don't see it that way, but maybe that's just me.

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03-07-2012, 05:36 PM
  #219
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Then the same people who have complained about his effort start *****ing because he tried to fight a guy.

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03-07-2012, 05:43 PM
  #220
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Then the same people who have complained about his effort start *****ing because he tried to fight a guy.
at least he sticks up for teammates..some other leaders never do that

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03-07-2012, 05:46 PM
  #221
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I'm interested to know if you think it's a lack of effort that's causing his slump. That's the only way I would buy into the idea that the contract has anything to do with his lack of offense. I don't see it that way, but maybe that's just me.
No, it's definitely not a lack of effort.

It's 100% mental.

He has no confidence, so he's gripping the stick tightly, over-thinking everything, and trying to do too much at times, and also playing tentatively at times because hes nervous that hes going to screw up.

He needs to simplify his game, take the puck straight to the net from the corners, and move the puck quickly to open teammates, and then keep moving to find open space. It sounds so simple, but when you're in a season long slump, it's easier said than done, and can be very difficult to break the indecisiveness and bad habits that have developed over the last 60 games. I hope he feels like its a new start in the playoffs and can get back to basics.

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03-07-2012, 06:24 PM
  #222
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Sure, but how come Gaborik and Del Zotto get free passes and get another season to bounce back, but so many posters, including you who actually said "I'm fine with trading Dubinsky for whatever we can get and then go after Parise" have given up on a team-first, heart and soul player who by far our best forward in the last two playoff series.
Del Zotto hardly got a free pass. People were trashing him all season and said he was a fluke, or that he'd never be a NHL regular. Regardless, Del Zotto was a 20 year old in his second year of professional hockey. That means he has room to grow. If this was Dubinsky's second season, he'd be getting the same slack. How do I know that? I was around for his second season and remember the hundreds of posts saying "He's still young, he'll find consistency to his game" or "These are just growing pains."

Gaborik is a proven goal scorer. A "down" year for him was as good as Dubinsky's best season until last year (and had he not been injured, likely would have been just as productive as Dubi was). Dubinsky has never brought the level of offense that Gaborik has proven that he can bring to our lineup. A player with that kind of talent, and that kind of track record, gets the benefit of the doubt.

As you stated, that wasn't me who said that, but that doesn't mean I'd be opposed to moving Dubinsky off the books if it meant being able to fit a Parise, Nash, or Ryan on the team.

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03-07-2012, 06:26 PM
  #223
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Eh, I've never liked him.


Me either, he seems like he has that "I should have been the star look"....




Enjoy Columbus Brandon!

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03-07-2012, 06:33 PM
  #224
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As I've said before, he looks a bit out of shape. He appears to be slower and weaker on the puck than he was last year.

The only way Dubinsky is going to be a successful offensive player is if he uses his physical attributes to his advantage. To put it lightly, he's not a smart player. He makes bad, ill-advised plays somewhat often. As long as he's barreling his way through the neutral zone, though, that "dumb play" is near irrelevant - unfortunately, the only thing that has been truly noticeable about Dubinsky this year is his stupid play.

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03-07-2012, 06:35 PM
  #225
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I'm not knocking Dubinsky's effort or saying he is going through the motions this year because of the contract, but his two worst seasons hands down were the ones after signing a contract.

I'm not his shrink or his coach, no way is paying me to figure him out. But I watch the games and he is doing something wrong. He is great without the puck but he can't seem to do anything right with the puck. Again, it's not effort or intensity, it's confidence and decision making.

The guy is getting too much money and responsibility to come to the team mentally unprepared. It's March and he hasn't figured his issue out yet. If he got/gets moved for another player, he has no one to blame.

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