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Ryan Suter - is he a franchise defenceman?

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02-26-2012, 11:22 AM
  #1
phillyfanatic
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Ryan Suter - is he a franchise defenceman?

Remember when Jay Bouwmeester came on the market as a UFA? He was the shiny UFA D-man that teams were going to write a blank cheque for. However, he hadn't really proved to be a true #1 Dman for a winner. I always thought he was a good defenseman who was overrated. I was hoping the Flyers didn't get him. Luckily, they didn't, they traded for Chris Pronger instead.

Got me thinking of Suter. He is likely to get 7 million per for 5+ years, similar money and term to what Jbouw signed. Is Ryan Suter a true #1 d-man? A franchise player? A playoff performer who can help win you a Stanley Cup?

Personally.....I don't think so.

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02-26-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Remember when Jay Bouwmeester came on the market as a UFA? He was the shiny UFA D-man that teams were going to write a blank cheque for. However, he hadn't really proved to be a true #1 Dman for a winner. I always thought he was a good defenseman who was overrated. I was hoping the Flyers didn't get him. Luckily, they didn't, they traded for Chris Pronger instead.

Got me thinking of Suter. He is likely to get 7 million per for 5+ years, similar money and term to what Jbouw signed. Is Ryan Suter a true #1 d-man? A franchise player? A playoff performer who can help win you a Stanley Cup?

Personally.....I don't think so.
I think he is a #1 defender, but not as good as some people make him out to be. I'd take Weber over him any day of the week.

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02-26-2012, 11:33 AM
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lumm0x
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I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of Nashville hockey, but Suter seems like a very solid guy but no where close to Weber material. Suter reminds me of a young version of Kimmo. Great #2 or stalwart to command your 2nd pairing but only a clear cut #1 if you don't have one of the top 10 defensemen in the league.

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02-26-2012, 12:05 PM
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GKJ
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Somewhere, someone wrote an article with numbers which said that Ryan Suter isn't as much of an upgrade from Matt Carle has people think.

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02-26-2012, 12:11 PM
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If you don't think Suter is an upgrade over Carle then you don't watch much hockey

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02-26-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Somewhere, someone wrote an article with numbers which said that Ryan Suter isn't as much of an upgrade from Matt Carle has people think.
Numbers like Carle having 2 pp points last season on an average 2:18 per game? Carle sucks.

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02-26-2012, 12:59 PM
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He's a good Dman in the vein of Kimmo, top 10 in the league, BUT I'd rather have Weber he's the best and I would love him in Orange and black

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02-26-2012, 01:00 PM
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GKJ
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It was from Dustin Leed. Not necessarily my personal opinion, but here it is:

http://thehockeyguys.net/matt-carle-vs-ryan-suter/

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02-26-2012, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It was from Dustin Leed. Not necessarily my personal opinion, but here it is:

http://thehockeyguys.net/matt-carle-vs-ryan-suter/
It's amazing how people will scour for statistics to fit their argument.

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02-26-2012, 01:06 PM
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I think whoever ends up signing him will regret it and he will face a lot of criticism from the fan base. Not because his play on the ice will be worse than it is now - simply because his play on the ice will not justify his new contract.

The comparison to JBo is a good one.

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02-26-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
It's amazing how people will scour for statistics to fit their argument.
Maybe he did, maybe you disagree (I don't entirely agree with it) but what did he say in that article that is wrong?

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02-26-2012, 01:29 PM
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After the Bryz ordeal, the term "Franchise ________" should be outlawed.

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02-26-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Maybe he did, maybe you disagree (I don't entirely agree with it) but what did he say in that article that is wrong?
I don't have an opinion on blocked shots and I view Coburn as overpaid.

One thing I will say is intuitively, I care about shots rather than corsi (shots+missed shots+blocked shots) as one of the problems the Flyers D as a whole has is getting pucks through to the net from the point. Carle is especially ineffective at this on the point in the pp.

You can look on http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ and go through various stats and situations and compare to make a lot of different arguments on whether Carle is 2nd or 4th statistically. If you watch Carle every game, you definitely see why fans get on him.

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02-26-2012, 01:33 PM
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Suter is top 10 in the league. Weber is clearly better but Suter is a #1 guy. Our defense will be sick next year if we can roll:

Suter - Meszaros
Timonen - Coburn
Grossman - Gus/MAB


Best American defenseman since Chelios and Leetch in their primes.

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02-26-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Maybe he did, maybe you disagree (I don't entirely agree with it) but what did he say in that article that is wrong?
You can also use Corsi based stats to "show" Cam Fowler appears great defensively on that site (CorA20), but when you see that he is -18 and -14 worse than any other defender, you have to think twice.

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02-26-2012, 01:42 PM
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I think defensemen are over paid in the sense that they're at such a premium.

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02-26-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
If you don't think Suter is an upgrade over Carle then you don't watch much hockey
After your last thread I don't think you watch much hockey ether

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02-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
You can also use Corsi based stats to "show" Cam Fowler appears great defensively on that site (CorA20), but when you see that he is -18 and -14 worse than any other defender, you have to think twice.
He's not using straight Corsi though.

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02-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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Suter is not a Franchise defenseman. He's a very good defenseman, but not franchise. He's not in the same league as Chara, Weber, Pronger, Lidstrom ect. He will be paid like one in the offseason though, and it's going to be a massive dissapointment to the team that throws 7 million a year at him. He's a very good 2# and an average 1#.

Again just my opinion, but personally I don't want him if he costs anything more than 5.5.

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02-26-2012, 01:55 PM
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Suter is not a number one. Weber is a number one. The Flyers need Weber.

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02-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Maybe he did, maybe you disagree (I don't entirely agree with it) but what did he say in that article that is wrong?
I didn't say he said something wrong. Which is exactly my point, you'll always be able to find a statistic that will fit your argument.

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02-26-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Suter is not a number one. Weber is a number one. The Flyers need Weber.
I would love Weber on this team. I just don't see it happening. IIRC they don't have the picks to sign him and would likely have to overpay to acquire his rights. I don't see him leaving Nashville. They should match any offer and would likely get more for an offer sheet than a trade. Only way he leaves is a ridiculous offer sheet which I don't see happening.

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02-26-2012, 02:17 PM
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The way I see it on these boards is, most people who follow Nashville believe that Suter is better than Weber. While everyone else thinks it is the other way around. I believe that he is a top defenseman but Im not sure I would use the word franchise.

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02-26-2012, 02:21 PM
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Jtown
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It is these advance statistics that really hurt the game of hockey. I think advanced statistics has its place in a sport like baseball, but in hockey there is so much more going on.

We all watch Matt Carle. Matt Carle is a great passer on the PP , he is overmatched during the PK and is physically unable to handle his man in the Dzone. He is a good skater and scrappy player but he far to careless ( as are a majority of our players) with the puck. He has really had a bad month and we are all noticing it. We don't need advanced stats to tell us just how good he is compared to Suter.

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02-26-2012, 02:52 PM
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BobbyClarkeFan16
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I don't think Suter or Carle are what's needed by the Flyers. They need a solid defensive presence who plays with some snarl and will make people pay the price in the slot. They get that physical presence back there that strikes some fear into teams, then that works.

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