HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What's the deal with beating up the blueline?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-05-2012, 01:59 PM
  #1
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,920
vCash: 500
What's the deal with beating up the blueline?

Ok, I'm not saying that our blueline has been great this season, or that each player hasn't been inconsistent and prone to mistakes. But people have been raging about the blueline a lot lately.

However, isn't the real problem that the Wild can't generate any scoring or offensive possession at all?

I mean, you can be decent defensively, but if the other team is coming down again and again, and your forwards can't score or generate any momentum, defense then becomes a losing battle, where it is only a matter of time before breakdown happens.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:12 PM
  #2
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,648
vCash: 500
They are not doing their job, plain and simple. Watch the replays and you'll see them not clearing the crease, picking up the man, turning the puck over, screening the goalie, etc.

GAA went from 2.13 to 3.22...save % went from 93.4 to 89.7...PK% went from 85.5 to 79.7. If you extrapolate those numbers over a full season, Wild would be 29th in GAA, 28th in save %, and 24th in PK%. Those are all directly impacted by the defense.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
  #3
Wild48
Our Savior
 
Wild48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth
Country: United States
Posts: 1,541
vCash: 500
I look at this defense as a bunch of kids thrown into roles a year early.

Their gaining valuable NHL experience when they should be in the AHL. If they're truly NHL caliber players this will only benefit them.

I still believe Scandella can be a #2. I think when Brodin comes over this off-season he can step in as a #3 defenseman.

FA (please Suter, or trade for Weber/Subban) - Scandella
Brodin - Spurgeon
Gilbert - Prosser/Falk/Stoner

Yeah it's painful to watch right now, but I feel like this D will look a lot better next year as long as they find a way to add a top 2 defenseman. (easier said than done I realize)

Wild48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:20 PM
  #4
UMD05
Hobey Baker Champs
 
UMD05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
However, isn't the real problem that the Wild can't generate any scoring or offensive possession at all?
It's both. The current offensive and defensive units Minnesota is icing are amongst the worst units in the NHL. The entire roster has a difficult time chasing the opponent around in the defensive zone. Offensively, we're lucky if the Wild can sustain any sort of pressure for the majority of a shift.

Both units, in its current state, are quite terrible. The defensemen might get more blame because they were the weak link prior to the top 6 being decimated by injuries.

UMD05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:33 PM
  #5
Avder
Global Moderator
Is it October yet?
 
Avder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The ANGRY DOME
Country: United States
Posts: 31,567
vCash: 50
The system starts on the blueline.

And the blue line has not been doing its job. They have not been clearing pucks from the crease, they have not been clearing players from the crease. They have not been able to make break out passes. They have not been able to frustrate the oppositions forward. They have not been able to hold the puck in to the offensive zone, they have not been able to handle the point on the powerplay. They screen their own goalie. Hell Schultz almost CONCUSSED Harding in San Jose back when we were still a good team.

Because of this, forwards have had to come back and help on defense to pick up the slack and they have not been able to do their jobs. Our top lines generally spend their whole shifts covering for the bluelines mistakes and inability to get the puck back and get it out of the zone.

Avder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:38 PM
  #6
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
The problems with our game is something of a catch-22. We can't get offense going because when we finally clear our zone, we have to dump and change. We can't clear our zone because we don't have any sustained pressure in the offensive zone. We don't have sustained pressure in the offensive zone because when we finally clear the defensive zone, we have to dump and change...

The surprising thing is that our post-trades blueline is arguably better than our early season set. We've actually been able to set up in the offensive end a few times and keep possession because our defensemen can: 1) hold the point sometimes, 2) make a d-to-d pass, 3) pinch to keep the cycle going, and 4) take shots forcing opposing teams to respect that threat, opening passing lanes. At this point though, we don't have the skill from our forwards to get the puck into the back of the net. Now our play in our own end has taken a nose dive as no one will clear the crease, and our forwards panic when they get the puck in our own end, and it seems like everyone has become a turnover machine.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:55 PM
  #7
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 500
Well when you panic and bring in all puck movers...

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2012, 02:56 PM
  #8
saywut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,084
vCash: 500
They're simply not very good. On a good night we get NHL-level play from half of them. Terrible puck handling, decision making, and positioning. No production. Even when in proper position any of our D can get embarrassed by your average 3rd liner one on one. Forwards have been compensating for this joke of a group all year.

We need Jonas Brodin to be very good, and quickly too. But he can't save this group on his own, no matter how good he becomes. Scandella finding some consistency would be huge as well.

saywut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 09:23 AM
  #9
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,920
vCash: 500
I brought this up because I feel like this is a classic example of forwards turning on blueliners, blaming them for goals scored, and the blueliners are kind of like "because you guys can't keep the puck out of our Dzone for more than 3 seconds."

It's the defense's job to break-up rushes, stop opposing offensive possessions, prevent goals, and get the puck to the forwards on the break-out.

However, the moment the puck gets to the forwards, even in the defensive zone, it's on them.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:18 AM
  #10
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,648
vCash: 500
Not quite, not with the systems at the NHL level. Forwards are asked to drop back and rotate coverage with the D, so the lines are blurred.

Still, how often are the defensemen getting the puck and making a good pass to the forwards for a breakout compared to chipping it off the glass, rimming it around the boards, or flipping it up and out of the zone? That's basically a turnover right there.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #11
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,920
vCash: 500
Chipping it up the boards is generally a function of fatigue. Whether in a shift or the game. When we spend 70% of the game in our zone because our forwards can't maintain any offensive zone pressure,

And having the opposing blueline pinching or retrieving the puck before our forwards is a function of how much they are threatened by our forwards. When there is zero threat of a quick rush the other way, the opposing teams can play more agressive and tighter.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:41 AM
  #12
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,648
vCash: 500
Nobody's saying the forwards are doing a great job. Both the forwards and defense are terrible. Atrocious. You have four lines of grinders playing chip and chase and then three pairings of defensemen who's breakout is to launch the puck off the glass or boards.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:44 AM
  #13
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I brought this up because I feel like this is a classic example of forwards turning on blueliners, blaming them for goals scored, and the blueliners are kind of like "because you guys can't keep the puck out of our Dzone for more than 3 seconds."

It's the defense's job to break-up rushes, stop opposing offensive possessions, prevent goals, and get the puck to the forwards on the break-out.

However, the moment the puck gets to the forwards, even in the defensive zone, it's on them.
Once we break into the offensive zone, with our pre-deadline lineup we couldn't hold the zone because of the defense. The forwards were forced to move the puck just between the three of them because the defense couldn't be counted upon to not just lose the zone with a bad d-to-d pass. Also, whenever they got the puck, opposing teams didn't respect their ability to shoot, so they'd cheat on the passing lanes to cause turnovers.

With the post-deadline lineup, we don't have the same problem, and we've actually seen a bit of good blueline movement and shooting, which is freeing things up, but I feel like the forwards are failing the team now. The lack of scoring right now is largely the fault of the forwards (but let's be honest, a team with Powe in the top 6 isn't going to score much). The GAA is both sides' fault as the forwards aren't giving as much effort on their back check and defensive play, but the defense isn't clearing the front of the net, and are prone to defensive zone turnovers.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #14
Wild48
Our Savior
 
Wild48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth
Country: United States
Posts: 1,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Well when you panic and bring in all puck movers...
It was a long-term move done by a GM that recognized the team was not a playoff team, and even if they got lucky and made the playoffs they would have been swept out.

Gilbert is the type of D-man our system lacked with the removal of Marek... Kampfer is a prospect with a skill set that we don't really have a lot of in our system right now even if he's not flashy.

I don't see this as a panic move, this team is set up to have a good balance when Stoner is healthy, and the team calls up Brodin.

Wild48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 03:25 PM
  #15
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 21,379
vCash: 50
if it makes you feel better, NSF, i've been raging on the D for several years now.
The moves made weren't panic moves--they were triage.

rynryn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 06:43 PM
  #16
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild48 View Post
Gilbert is the type of D-man our system lacked with the removal of Marek... Kampfer is a prospect with a skill set that we don't really have a lot of in our system right now even if he's not flashy.
Spurgeron? Kampfer is a high risk, high reward kind of guy but one hit and he's out for good.

We don't have a minute eater. None of the guys we picked up can chomp a good 20-24 minutes without being a liability.

Quote:
I don't see this as a panic move, this team is set up to have a good balance when Stoner is healthy, and the team calls up Brodin.
It is a panic move especially when you consider the going rate for defensemen, what we gave up, and the fact that we completely swapped out the top 4 of our blueline for questions.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #17
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 21,379
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Spurgeron? Kampfer is a high risk, high reward kind of guy but one hit and he's out for good.

We don't have a minute eater. None of the guys we picked up can chomp a good 20-24 minutes without being a liability.



It is a panic move especially when you consider the going rate for defensemen, what we gave up, and the fact that we completely swapped out the top 4 of our blueline for questions.
we swapped out the "top 4" of our blueline for the chance that what we were getting was better leveraged against the cap savings. At any rate, man for man the add/drops there don't amount to much of a change plus they're cheaper and/or fit the profile of where we're tying to go better.
that cap space we have might be hard to spend next year!

rynryn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 07:21 PM
  #18
Dampland
Overly Moderated
 
Dampland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Job Search City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,310
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I brought this up because I feel like this is a classic example of forwards turning on blueliners, blaming them for goals scored, and the blueliners are kind of like "because you guys can't keep the puck out of our Dzone for more than 3 seconds."

It's the defense's job to break-up rushes, stop opposing offensive possessions, prevent goals, and get the puck to the forwards on the break-out.

However, the moment the puck gets to the forwards, even in the defensive zone, it's on them.
Spoken like a former Forward. Blame it all on the D-Man.

Dampland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 07:50 PM
  #19
Jbcraig1883
Registered User
 
Jbcraig1883's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisville, KY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,133
vCash: 500
I think that squidz was right in that the defense post-deadline has show more threat for offense, in particular, Kampfer and Gilbert.

I think the reputation/culture of our D has conditioned d-men to simple try long, one bounce passes, or simply flip it into the neutral zone. Mostly due to lack of skill but it is not conducive to developing that skill in most prospects. I think that was another reason they traded Schultz...to try to get rid of that mindset/style because it is not consistent with what Fletcher/Yeo is trying to implement here. Just imo, though.

Jbcraig1883 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.