HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Player Usage Charts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-15-2012, 03:49 PM
  #1
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,999
vCash: 500
Player Usage Charts

Seen these charts?
http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf
i found them via Dobber's fantasy site (a fantastic site if you haven't seen it)
www.dobberhockey.com

The charts plot last season individual players by team on quality of competition and O zone start %, with bubbles representing corsi stats. Pretty cool info...

The Canucks have the biggest spread of all team; no surprise given what we know of AV using his players so selectively (Manny always with the D-draws, Sedins always with the O-draws, etc)

Not too many surprises, but it does reflect poorly on all our depth d-men (w the exception of Tanev, and perhaps of Gragnani.)

2nd pairing intersting .. both Edler and Salo with slightly more O starts, and playing against stronger competition (Kesler-level), but Edler with a slightly positive corsi (which I gather is just shots generated / shots given up), and Salo with a not-insignificantly negative one... maybe another indicator that it might be time for Sami to hang 'em up (or take a reduced role with more sheltered assignments....he could likely do well in a true 3rd pairing role.)

Check out Weber's data point ... man would that be nice to drop on our chart..

Looking at the more-mentioned goalie-trade targets...
For the Leafs, golden-boy Gardiner is in the sheltered quadrant, though has produced offense more than given it up. Schenn not looking good. McArthur looks better than Armstrong, Lombardi, Franson, Colbourne, any of the other junk they keep trying to throw at us...
For the Bolts, Purcell looks pretty good; Malone and Connolly ok.
If we trade w Columbus, I hope we look at Nikitin; great stats for a young guy.

Other interesting notes --
Garrison looking really good here; plays against toughest opponents, and produced well, admittedly with with good O starts.
Sammuelsson looking good on both our chart and Fla's. Would be a solid guy to sign again if we can get a deal w him.
Detroit's top guys dominant in the toughest situations.
Ovechkin not lookin great here ...sheltered, but out-shot.
Looking at the Kings, Kopitar is the big beast.
Karlsson is a true stud by these stats ... all that offense while playing against the toughest competition.

Thoughts?
cheers

NYVanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #2
lush
@jasonlush
 
lush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,308
vCash: 500
Very interesting read, Hodgson stats looked a lot better than I expected

lush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2012, 05:00 PM
  #3
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Interesting stuff - thanks for posting!

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2012, 05:31 PM
  #4
keslerburrows
Registered User
 
keslerburrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vernon, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
Enjoyed reading these. Interesting stuff.

keslerburrows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2012, 11:37 PM
  #5
GCM
Stork
 
GCM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
this is actually fascinating and quality statistical information

you can tell the better teams tend to have more shut down and two-way players.

GCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:51 AM
  #6
Yossarian54
Registered User
 
Yossarian54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,020
vCash: 500
Yeah these are a really good way of presenting more objective information about the contribution of players.

A couple of things stood out for me from other teams:

-No one else uses zone starts to the extent we do, i'm not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps with pre-eye injury Manny it was more effective IMO. The guys at PITB suggested that the difference between us and other teams is that AV focuses more on zone matching, and less on line matching.

-Ales Hemsky absolutely deserves 5M a year, best looking numbers on the Oilers.

-In terms of pick ups for us, this is one reason why I would be happy with MacArthur coming back from TO as part of a goalie trade.

-Additionally, I think Robidas would be a very useful pick-up should we luck out of Schultz/Garrison. Have him and Tanev share the right side minutes on the middle and bottom pairing.

With regards to our players:
-Sulzer was perhaps someone we should have kept over Rome/Alberts as a 7th d-man.

-Ebbett is a good depth player to have around

-Gragnani? Better at driving posession and shots than Ballard? hmmmmmm.

Yossarian54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 04:18 AM
  #7
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,965
vCash: 250
Interesting, thanks for posting.

vanuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 07:59 AM
  #8
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Yeah these are a really good way of presenting more objective information about the contribution of players.

A couple of things stood out for me from other teams:

-No one else uses zone starts to the extent we do, i'm not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps with pre-eye injury Manny it was more effective IMO. The guys at PITB suggested that the difference between us and other teams is that AV focuses more on zone matching, and less on line matching.

-Ales Hemsky absolutely deserves 5M a year, best looking numbers on the Oilers.

-In terms of pick ups for us, this is one reason why I would be happy with MacArthur coming back from TO as part of a goalie trade.

-Additionally, I think Robidas would be a very useful pick-up should we luck out of Schultz/Garrison. Have him and Tanev share the right side minutes on the middle and bottom pairing.

With regards to our players:
-Sulzer was perhaps someone we should have kept over Rome/Alberts as a 7th d-man.

-Ebbett is a good depth player to have around

-Gragnani? Better at driving posession and shots than Ballard? hmmmmmm.
good points. Yeah, I was a little surprised at how bad Ballard looks, considering this was considered by many a 'bounceback' year

To me the zone start is less important here (left or right) but players who can put up big blue bubbles above the line are the ones to look out for...

J Staal looks very good ...i would be hesitant to trade him if i were Pitt
this also shows why Olli Jokinen will get paid this summer, crazy as that seems...
Boston picture shows a very solid team, but i was interested to see Seidenberg look significantly less good than Chara.
Buffalo's D woes are pretty clear here -- Erhoff actually looks like their best D by these stats..(actually 2nd to Sekera)
Chicago's an interesting picture. Seabrook best lookin D, Keith close, but with a negative corsi, as a lot of their guys have. Stahlberg looks pretty good.
This chart should seal the calder for Landeskog, if that already isnt a done deal.
Ott as a potential target backed up by good numbers here.
Oilers are interesting; good point about Hemsky, and all their top young guys looks solid. It's everyone else who blows. Hordi horrid...
I think Gilbert will be a good pickup in fantasy leagues next year.
Habs look a mess.. Subban the only quality data point. Kaberle, ugh. Gomez a posiitive corsi, but vs weak competition, embarassing at his pricetag.

NYVanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 08:36 AM
  #9
billvanseattle
Registered User
 
billvanseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: bellingham
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
silly me, i thought i was already spending too much time at hockey crap, this adds another dimension ... I think I can double my wasted hours with this source.

billvanseattle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 10:11 AM
  #10
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
silly me, i thought i was already spending too much time at hockey crap, this adds another dimension ... I think I can double my wasted hours with this source.
No kidding
Pretty fascinating extra stuff when playing fantasy GM for Canucks or in a pool/league
The site says NHL gms lean on this stuff too ....who knows, but wouldn't be surprised

I wonder if AV strategy as illustrated by our chart is savvy or limiting?
Personally I think the Sedins could be effective w more balanced zone starts, and wonder if having the so heavily O oriented from a team strategy perspective is making them more defensive liabilities than they otherwise would be? Of course I think lack of foot speed is ultimately a real impediment to true defensive prowess....
Malhotra's effectiveness or lack thereof will be critical factor this year. ... It's sickening to remember how freaking good he was before the injury (selke calibre), vs damn near waiver fodder at this point. If I could see one player return to his peak -- forget Ballard, Kesler, Booth -- it would be Manny, hands down...

NYVanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 04:09 PM
  #11
RobertKron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,597
vCash: 500
The isles chart is hilarious.

RobertKron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 08:05 PM
  #12
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,965
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
No kidding
Pretty fascinating extra stuff when playing fantasy GM for Canucks or in a pool/league
The site says NHL gms lean on this stuff too ....who knows, but wouldn't be surprised

I wonder if AV strategy as illustrated by our chart is savvy or limiting?
Personally I think the Sedins could be effective w more balanced zone starts, and wonder if having the so heavily O oriented from a team strategy perspective is making them more defensive liabilities than they otherwise would be? Of course I think lack of foot speed is ultimately a real impediment to true defensive prowess....
Malhotra's effectiveness or lack thereof will be critical factor this year. ... It's sickening to remember how freaking good he was before the injury (selke calibre), vs damn near waiver fodder at this point. If I could see one player return to his peak -- forget Ballard, Kesler, Booth -- it would be Manny, hands down...
I think we should balance out the zone starts more too, even if only to force the Sedins to become better defensively. And I don't believe that their foot speed is the issue, nor should it be an excuse - consider Kopitar, who isn't a speedster either but has developed into a good two-way player who's used regularly on the PK.

vanuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 12:20 AM
  #13
Hammer Time
Registered User
 
Hammer Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Yeah these are a really good way of presenting more objective information about the contribution of players.

A couple of things stood out for me from other teams:

-No one else uses zone starts to the extent we do, i'm not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps with pre-eye injury Manny it was more effective IMO. The guys at PITB suggested that the difference between us and other teams is that AV focuses more on zone matching, and less on line matching.

-Ales Hemsky absolutely deserves 5M a year, best looking numbers on the Oilers.

-In terms of pick ups for us, this is one reason why I would be happy with MacArthur coming back from TO as part of a goalie trade.

-Additionally, I think Robidas would be a very useful pick-up should we luck out of Schultz/Garrison. Have him and Tanev share the right side minutes on the middle and bottom pairing.

With regards to our players:
-Sulzer was perhaps someone we should have kept over Rome/Alberts as a 7th d-man.

-Ebbett is a good depth player to have around

-Gragnani? Better at driving posession and shots than Ballard? hmmmmmm.
The zone starts has been one of the areas where I've questioned/criticized AV. It's a great idea so long as no one gets injured, but I think putting the Sedins out for O zone time so often is making them more of a liability defensively. And when Kesler or Malhotra goes down (as happened in the 2011 playoffs), all of a sudden you have to play the Sedins in defensive situations more (even against opposing top lines), and then you're in trouble.

I don't think it's an accident that so many great two-way players (Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, Datsyuk, Yzerman, Sakic) have been important pieces of Cup winning teams. Ken Holland once said that Bowman teaching Yzerman to backcheck was one of the main changes that got the Wings their first Cup in 42 years.


Last edited by Hammer Time: 06-17-2012 at 12:28 AM.
Hammer Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 08:38 AM
  #14
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I think we should balance out the zone starts more too, even if only to force the Sedins to become better defensively. And I don't believe that their foot speed is the issue, nor should it be an excuse - consider Kopitar, who isn't a speedster either but has developed into a good two-way player who's used regularly on the PK.
I dunno, Kopitar was looking pretty quick out here ...reminded me of Alfie a lot, leaping into holes and powering to the net

NYVanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 09:32 AM
  #15
Wilch
Unregistered User
 
Wilch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Under your bed
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 7,751
vCash: 500
Oh my, it appears Tanner Glass is horrible according to these charts

Wilch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 09:39 AM
  #16
Jrtu
Registered User
 
Jrtu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,509
vCash: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
The zone starts has been one of the areas where I've questioned/criticized AV. It's a great idea so long as no one gets injured, but I think putting the Sedins out for O zone time so often is making them more of a liability defensively. And when Kesler or Malhotra goes down (as happened in the 2011 playoffs), all of a sudden you have to play the Sedins in defensive situations more (even against opposing top lines), and then you're in trouble.

I don't think it's an accident that so many great two-way players (Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, Datsyuk, Yzerman, Sakic) have been important pieces of Cup winning teams. Ken Holland once said that Bowman teaching Yzerman to backcheck was one of the main changes that got the Wings their first Cup in 42 years.
I really agree with your reasoning. In the playoffs, the scoring is usually lower and the game is usually tighter than it is in the regular season. In the regular season, we can win games without needing the twins playing the full length of the ice. However, this simply cannot happen in the playoffs. I'm not saying that the Sedins are liabilities on the back end, but if I remember correctly, they were playing extremely well defensively during their first few seasons here. If AV continues to putting them out on offensive situations, their defensive awareness would most likely continue to decline. When people think Kopitar, they think of an offensive player who has the capability to shut opponents down as well. Kind of like our own Kesler, except not Selke-caliber good. Well, the Sedins can be that too. However, this will only happen if AV start holding them accountable in their own end.

Jrtu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 05:21 PM
  #17
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,583
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
Oh my, it appears Tanner Glass is horrible according to these charts
if only it included air swings as attempted shots

tbf he's getting D zone starts and elite opponents. That says more about the Jets than Glass.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2012, 05:44 PM
  #18
RobertKron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
if only it included air swings as attempted shots

tbf he's getting D zone starts and elite opponents. That says more about the Jets than Glass.
Yeah, glass is being given some ridiculous situations considering he's tanner glass.

RobertKron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.