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Trade: Sharks acquire Winnik, Galiardi, 7th for McGinn, Connolly, Sgarbossa

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Old
02-29-2012, 10:24 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
I dont really care how they played last night, I care how they play 10-20-30 games from now
Winnik's been playing the way he did last night for the last two years. I doubt that's going to abruptly change at some point. Dude's a beast.

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02-29-2012, 10:24 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by OffSydes View Post
Both players are victims of terrible coaches..

Winnik had Gretzky and Sacco and Galiardi with Sacco..

Lets see how they do with a good coach and if last night is any indication they should get better from here.
I agree with you on Galiardi but what Winnik showed last night, that's his game. Has been for a long time.

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02-29-2012, 10:38 AM
  #528
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Agreed, he played a great game tonight. I'm a little worried about the rumors I've heard about him being very hard to negotiate a contract with though. He took Phoenix to arbitration twice and apparently wanted $2.5 million to re-sign with the Avs this summer. I hope that's untrue, or that he at least changes his mind, because as much as I liked him tonight I really don't want DW throwing that kind of money at him. And we all know how much DW loves overpaying UFA depth players (Wallin, Huskins, Handzus).
I wonder, though, if some of that was because of the places in which he played. I mean, Phoenix isn't exactly a hockey hotbed or desirable destination, and though I never heard anything public about Winnik having arguments with Avs management, I wouldn't be surprised if it were a "pay me more money so I'll stay here" thing.

It wouldn't be the first time a Shark took less money in order to stay in San Jose, and I certainly wouldn't put it past Winnik to do so.

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02-29-2012, 10:41 AM
  #529
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Torres got 1.7 after a great playoffs. I see Torres as a comparable. I'd pay 1.7 for Winnik. 2.5 is alot - maybe if he was a center, as they sometimes command more. The plus he has on Torres though (besides not being a dbag) is that he can PK.

Still, 2.5 is a lot, but I think DW needs to hammer down the depth.

I'd love to retain Winnik and Moore and have a 3rd line of Winnik - Moore - Galliardi (or Galliardi - Moore - Winnik).

I feel like at least one will go to FA though, and I actually can see it being Moore over Winnik, as we are deep on centers, not so much on wings who are physical and can PK.

Also, my dream would be to sign Winnik along with David Jones. I'd love to have those 3 Colorado players!

Moore - I am still undecided, but I loved him for Tampa Bay in the playoffs last year. He was the driving force behind that third line producing the way it did.
If last night is Winnik's standard game, sign that man up. 26 yrs old - we could use that on our 3rd line. He'd be a role model for the AHLers/prospects.

So comps - I'll need to research this. I guess Torres. How about Talbot ($1.75 AAV / 5 yr deal)? I need to do some research.

$2.5m AAV may be too rich. More like $1.8m - $2.2m AAV / 3-4 yrs?

Jones would be sweet but only if we move out a top 6 and looking for a cheaper alternative... We're pretty set up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
What are you talking about? McGinn would have totally been able to make Giroux a non-factor like Winnik did tonight because Ginner's just so physical you know?

Winnik's just a worthless one-dimensional player. Playing 20 minutes against the toughs and coming out on top is just one dimension, right?
We need to have a Vaasa / LW thread - a post off. That would be hilarious.

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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I agree with you on Galiardi but what Winnik showed last night, that's his game. Has been for a long time.
Sign that dude up. Sold. He has a ton of moxie in his game and combines it with hockey sense. 2 saves in the last minute there - a Pavelski like swing and body block. Love it.

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02-29-2012, 10:57 AM
  #530
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loving the effort. definitely sparked a tired team. crowd did too. EXTENSION!!!

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02-29-2012, 11:06 AM
  #531
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It is one game, people. Let us not anoint Winnik god yet. Think about what happened with Mark Bell.

If he plays like he has throughout his career, I would be hesitant to give him 2.5 million. He's excellent defensively, very good, but offensively he just doesn't have great instincts. I know LW might tout his high-shooting stats, but he's done that for years and put up less points; he is taking low-quality shots.

Something similar to what Mitchell is making now, 1.5-1.8 million is fair. Galiardi seems primed for a very short, prove-yourself contract....I'd probably pay Moore a little more than I would pay Winnik.

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02-29-2012, 11:10 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
It is one game, people. Let us not anoint Winnik god yet. Think about what happened with Mark Bell.

If he plays like he has throughout his career, I would be hesitant to give him 2.5 million. He's excellent defensively, very good, but offensively he just doesn't have great instincts. I know LW might tout his high-shooting stats, but he's done that for years and put up less points; he is taking low-quality shots.

Something similar to what Mitchell is making now, 1.5-1.8 million is fair. Galiardi seems primed for a very short, prove-yourself contract....I'd probably pay Moore a little more than I would pay Winnik.
I agree on almost every point, but I do have a question. What is Galiardi's RFA status? Is this his last year as an RFA or can we sign him to a 1 year deal again and still be an RFA afterward?

If this is his last RFA contract, I'd try to sign him for around 1.25 for at least a few years.

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02-29-2012, 11:12 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I agree on almost every point, but I do have a question. What is Galiardi's RFA status? Is this his last year as an RFA or can we sign him to a 1 year deal again and still be an RFA afterward?

If this is his last RFA contract, I'd try to sign him for around 1.25 for at least a few years.
Given that Galiardi is only 23, I imagine he has at least two years of RFA-eligibility left.

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02-29-2012, 11:16 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Given that Galiardi is only 23, I imagine he has at least two years of RFA-eligibility left.
Ah ok. Thats good, I can never figure that stuff out.

Anyway, another thing to consider is that acquiring Galiardi in the deal may have partially been to help retain Winnik after this season. Not to say they didn't want Galiardi at all, but just that it sweetened the deal. If so, they will want to make sure negotiations with Galiardi go smoothly (and prior to Winnik's) so that he is happy and comfortable and helps convince his friend to stick around.

Moore is the guy I don't see being re-signed for some reason. Wilson just has a thing about not re-signing journeymen, i don't know why. Hopefully I'm wrong though, I'd love to have a season where we actually re-sign all our rentals!

Since I'm not doing much today, I might make a thread looking at next seasons roster/cap a bit to get an idea what we can expect.

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02-29-2012, 11:17 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
It is one game, people. Let us not anoint Winnik god yet. Think about what happened with Mark Bell.

If he plays like he has throughout his career, I would be hesitant to give him 2.5 million. He's excellent defensively, very good, but offensively he just doesn't have great instincts. I know LW might tout his high-shooting stats, but he's done that for years and put up less points; he is taking low-quality shots.

Something similar to what Mitchell is making now, 1.5-1.8 million is fair. Galiardi seems primed for a very short, prove-yourself contract....I'd probably pay Moore a little more than I would pay Winnik.
I don't disagree with you. it is just one game, and im sure he wanted to put on a good showing.

Colorado isnt an offensively gifted team in the first place, they dont have any 20 goal scorers yet this season. He probably fit their system very easily, but he is exactly what the sharks system has needed all year.

His offensive instincts are the last of my worries honestly, we have a plethora of players that put up a lot of points every season, including ryane clowe who is struggling mightily this year.

you dont win with 12 rick nashs skating around. you win with a good combination of defensive responsibility, puck protection, forechecking, and offensive creativity.

he is only lacking one of those (and had thornton been able to get anything on the puck winnik may have had an open net or an assist) and if he even plays 75% of that game on average for the rest of the season he is due at least 2 mill, but it has to be small contract lengths. 2-3 years max.

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02-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I agree on almost every point, but I do have a question. What is Galiardi's RFA status? Is this his last year as an RFA or can we sign him to a 1 year deal again and still be an RFA afterward?

If this is his last RFA contract, I'd try to sign him for around 1.25 for at least a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Given that Galiardi is only 23, I imagine he has at least two years of RFA-eligibility left.
Assuming the RFA/UFA rules don't change in the next CBA - T.J. (DOB: 4/22/88) will be UFA eligible 7/1/2015 as a 27 yo.

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02-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #537
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Assuming the RFA/UFA rules don't change in the next CBA - T.J. (DOB: 4/22/88) will be UFA eligible 7/1/2015 as a 27 yo.
Great, thanks KDB.

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02-29-2012, 11:33 AM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
It is one game, people. Let us not anoint Winnik god yet. Think about what happened with Mark Bell.

If he plays like he has throughout his career, I would be hesitant to give him 2.5 million. He's excellent defensively, very good, but offensively he just doesn't have great instincts. I know LW might tout his high-shooting stats, but he's done that for years and put up less points; he is taking low-quality shots.

Something similar to what Mitchell is making now, 1.5-1.8 million is fair. Galiardi seems primed for a very short, prove-yourself contract....I'd probably pay Moore a little more than I would pay Winnik.
Mark Bell had a good game with us? I don't remember any...

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02-29-2012, 11:37 AM
  #539
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Mark Bell had a good game with us? I don't remember any...
Ouch.

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02-29-2012, 11:44 AM
  #540
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Mark Bell has to be the first person in sports to get traded and spend a night jail in his new city before seeing the practice rink.

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02-29-2012, 12:01 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Ah ok. Thats good, I can never figure that stuff out.

Anyway, another thing to consider is that acquiring Galiardi in the deal may have partially been to help retain Winnik after this season. Not to say they didn't want Galiardi at all, but just that it sweetened the deal. If so, they will want to make sure negotiations with Galiardi go smoothly (and prior to Winnik's) so that he is happy and comfortable and helps convince his friend to stick around.

Moore is the guy I don't see being re-signed for some reason. Wilson just has a thing about not re-signing journeymen, i don't know why. Hopefully I'm wrong though, I'd love to have a season where we actually re-sign all our rentals!

Since I'm not doing much today, I might make a thread looking at next seasons roster/cap a bit to get an idea what we can expect.
Do it, I've been meaning to have a discussion on next year's team, who we'd like to keep, who deserves what raises, who isn't coming back (White!), etc.

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02-29-2012, 12:04 PM
  #542
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An interesting side effect of this trade (at least last night) was that Mitchell now has to play with a fire under him, because there are two other guys in similar roles he is competing with a contract for now.

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02-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #543
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Coyotes fan in peace:

I think both Phoenix and Colorado loved Winnik, but one knock is that he is a contract nightmare for GMs. He took the Coyotes twice to arbitration and asking for 2.5 is silly and everybody knows it.

It's going to be interesting to see how this unravels in the offseason.

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02-29-2012, 12:07 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by skilk View Post
An interesting side effect of this trade (at least last night) was that Mitchell now has to play with a fire under him, because there are two other guys in similar roles he is competing with a contract for now.
Yeah. He had a couple of giveaways, but he hustled and on the whole played a very good game defensively.

I like the logjam we have now. Wingels, Winnik, and Galiardi all will out-play him on a regular basis.

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02-29-2012, 12:07 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by skilk View Post
An interesting side effect of this trade (at least last night) was that Mitchell now has to play with a fire under him, because there are two other guys in similar roles he is competing with a contract for now.
He's fighting a big uphill battle . He doesn't have the skills or numbers

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02-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #546
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From CapGeek:

Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.850m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.800m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.705m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.575m) / / James Sheppard ($0.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Scott Hannan ($1.000m)
Justin Braun ($0.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,159,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $140,833

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02-29-2012, 12:20 PM
  #547
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^^^ Needs less Hannan and more Stuart

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02-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
From CapGeek:

Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.850m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.800m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.705m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.575m) / / James Sheppard ($0.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Scott Hannan ($1.000m)
Justin Braun ($0.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,159,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $140,833
its not 2003

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02-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubba Jenkins View Post
Coyotes fan in peace:

I think both Phoenix and Colorado loved Winnik, but one knock is that he is a contract nightmare for GMs. He took the Coyotes twice to arbitration and asking for 2.5 is silly and everybody knows it.

It's going to be interesting to see how this unravels in the offseason.
Wow. Didn't know that.

If Wallin could get 2.5, he'll likely give Winnik 5.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #550
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I'd much rather pay Winnik $2.5mil than Handzus.

And sry10, it's not about the points with Winnik and it never has been. Anointing someone god because they score two goals in their first game as a Shark (as Mark Bell did, if memory serves) is stupid but it was Winnik's actual play that was impressive as hell last night and that's something he's brought far more often than not over the past two seasons.

If the amnesty buyout period is true I'd be disappointed if it isn't Handzus' ass DW kicks to the curb.

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