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Trade: Sharks acquire Winnik, Galiardi, 7th for McGinn, Connolly, Sgarbossa

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Old
02-27-2012, 03:44 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Wilson, Gillis and Lombardi really made this deadline their collective *****.

That Hodgson deal was genius.
How do you think Poile did? Seems pretty solid for the Preds, too.

I'm not so sure the Hodgson for Kassian deal is great now - maybe in a couple years. They just lost 3rd line scoring potential.

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02-27-2012, 03:46 PM
  #102
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Poile did well until Gaustad - pointless trade and an overpayment.

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02-27-2012, 03:46 PM
  #103
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I've had some time to think about it. Basing off of both sides reactions, it was close to even (we get better now, they get better futures). I still think we gave up a bit too much. How much value does a UFA 3rd liner hold? Not too big of an overpay, but McGinn's our hits leader and has outscored both of Galiardi/Winnik. You'd think we wouldn't have to add too much. The small prospect shrinks more...

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02-27-2012, 03:49 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by NorthBaySharksFan View Post
Are you suggesting that Galiardi could be a Clowe replacement?
No, not really, just because they are different players. Galiardi's game is built around speed more than physical play. I just think he has untapped offensive potential that he was never able to show with the Avalanche because of our coaching staff's inability to give him a chance with actual good linemates.

Both of these guys are great fits for you and I look forward to watching a Sharks game in the near future to see how they play.

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02-27-2012, 03:50 PM
  #105
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The more I calm down and analyze this trade the more I like it.

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02-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #106
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daniel winnik ‏ @Danwinnik34
@TJGaliardi u might re think ur dislike for cilantro. Studies suggest that coriander seeds in cilantro could promote cardiovascular health.

LOL, I guess DW was impressed by Winnie's nutritional knowledge too. Maybe we're not re-signing Mike Potenza?

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02-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
The more I calm down and analyze this trade the more I like it.
I'm hoping they help re-energize this team like Wellwood and Eager did, and carry on into the playoffs like Wellwood and Eager didn't.

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02-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I've had some time to think about it. Basing off of both sides reactions, it was close to even (we get better now, they get better futures). I still think we gave up a bit too much. How much value does a UFA 3rd liner hold? Not too big of an overpay, but McGinn's our hits leader and has outscored both of Galiardi/Winnik. You'd think we wouldn't have to add too much. The small prospect shrinks more...
Could have gotten Gaustad for a 1st.

Just looks as though there was nothing out there. There were hardly any sellers, therefore nothing to buy. We didn't give up substantial players for upgrade (Which our team is better today then it was yesterday). And we kept our 1st and 2nd picks this year (So far).

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02-27-2012, 03:54 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
The more I calm down and analyze this trade the more I like it.
Seems to be the reaction on the Avs board too.

Could just be one of those trades that takes several weeks to get a real handle on it.

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02-27-2012, 03:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Tomahawk214 View Post
I'm hoping they help re-energize this team like Wellwood and Eager did, and carry on into the playoffs like Wellwood and Eager didn't.
I think they will. TJ seems like he's ready to cut loose now that hes out from under Sacco. I still remember how irritated I got at him during the Avs/Sharks playoff series a few years ago. He was then decapitated by Rob Blake.

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Old
02-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
How do you think Poile did? Seems pretty solid for the Preds, too.

I'm not so sure the Hodgson for Kassian deal is great now - maybe in a couple years. They just lost 3rd line scoring potential.
I agree with Kitten Mittons, the Gaustad trade doesn't add much to the Preds (honestly they could have just kept Smithson, he's not all that worse a player) even though I really don't think a mid-first rounder has as much value as others seem to believe.

The Hodgson trade is great for Vancouver because they're basically doing what DW did with McGinn - i.e., selling high - on a much larger scale. I don't have the exact numbers but I believe Hodgson has started something like ~80% of his even strength shifts in the offensive zone in the 2012 calendar year. That, combined with playing against the crappiest possible opponents Vigenault could get him out against, and an unsustainably high SH% and on-ice SH%, seriously boosted his counting stats. The Canucks already shelter the Sedins to an insane extent, it makes little sense (and puts unnecessary strain on Malhotra and Kesler) to continue to do the same with Hodgson and it's unlikely Hodgson's stock will ever be higher than it is right now. Instead, they replace him with a defensively responsible center in Pahlsson, giving them two lines that can be relied on to play uber-tough minutes while the Sedins and Kesler kick other teams' teeths in. And of course there's Kassian who they won't need to rush like Buffalo has and can wait for him to develop into the type of winger that can slot in next to Kesler and Booth and make that line an even bigger pain in the ass to play against.

But the important thing is replacing a sheltered-minutes, defensively-challenged center - and getting a great asset for him by selling him at his highest value ever - with another defensive killer. Also Gragnani is understandably an afterthought here but he's a great puck-mover.

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02-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #112
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You guys are going to like Dan and TJ, Dan is a great PKer and TJ could easily end up being a great 3rd line secondary scorer that can agitate and play a physical game, he's also a good two-way player, but for some reason Sacco didn't like him.

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02-27-2012, 03:57 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
What's the stat for clearing the puck on a PK? At least these 2 are young and fast unlike Handzus.

Also, Winnik's GA ON / 60 is better than any Shark. I'll take that.

Moore, Galiardi and Winnik should all take PK minutes from Thornton, Marleau, COuture and Pavelski -keeping those guys fresher .
Corsi QOC

The reason I looked is because GAON/60 doesn't always translate between teams. I do like that Winnik was carrying a load but it was on a middle tier PK (rank #16). LW can pitch in with shots allowed. I'd still go with Pavs/Marleau as #1 pair. I want JT and Zeus off PK. I haven't looked up Moore. Galiardi was second pair on the Avs. When healthy, I'd probably line it up as Pavs/Marleau, Couture/Winnik, Moore/Galiardi, Havlat/Desi.
LW,
Winnik doesn't put up enough pts to be over 4th line. #10 is a high quality 4th liner. Points say he might become a low quality 3rd liner.
My points benchmarks:
15 - #12
20 - #11
25 - #10
30 - #9
35 - #8
40 - #7 (tweener)

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02-27-2012, 04:00 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
The more I calm down and analyze this trade the more I like it.
Really? I have just the opposite reaction. The more I analyze this trade, the more I hate it.

The Sharks just got massively softer, lost even more scoring from the bottom 6, addressed a "need" that wasn't there (defensive forward), and from what I can tell traded a young player who was motivated to put in a lot of effort into his development for a 3/4 tweener impending UFA who wants $2.5 mil a year (and who isn't worth that by a long shot) and an inconsistent headcase who's top potential is as a good 3rd liner who seems less interested in putting in consistent effort than Mitchell or McGinn.

And that doesn't even take in the further depletion of an already massively depleted prospect pool. The Sharks are now down to 1 forward prospect who might have top 6 potential in Nieto.

Wilson proves once again (to me) that he should be fired ASAP and this org needs a major change in management.

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02-27-2012, 04:01 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Sharksfan83 View Post
Could have gotten Gaustad for a 1st.

Just looks as though there was nothing out there. There were hardly any sellers, therefore nothing to buy. We didn't give up substantial players for upgrade (Which our team is better today then it was yesterday). And we kept our 1st and 2nd picks this year (So far).
We don't have a need for a Gaustad. Handzus is that same type of player, and he hasnt done too much here. Not sure why he generated so much interest.

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02-27-2012, 04:03 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
You guys are going to like Dan and TJ, Dan is a great PKer and TJ could easily end up being a great 3rd line secondary scorer that can agitate and play a physical game, he's also a good two-way player, but for some reason Sacco didn't like him.
So he might end up someday being what McGinn is now?

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02-27-2012, 04:03 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Really? I have just the opposite reaction. The more I analyze this trade, the more I hate it.

The Sharks just got massively softer, lost even more scoring from the bottom 6, addressed a "need" that wasn't there (defensive forward), and from what I can tell traded a young player who was motivated to put in a lot of effort into his development for a 3/4 tweener impending UFA who wants $2.5 mil a year (and who isn't worth that by a long shot) and an inconsistent headcase who's top potential is as a good 3rd liner who seems less interested in putting in consistent effort than Mitchell or McGinn.

And that doesn't even take in the further depletion of an already massively depleted prospect pool. The Sharks are now down to 1 forward prospect who might have top 6 potential in Nieto.

Wilson proves once again (to me) that he should be fired ASAP and this org needs a major change in management.
Both "prospects" were undrafted and he is a list of undrafted players in the NHL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...re_not_drafted


When your 19 playing against 16-17 year olds, you are bound to put up numbers.

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02-27-2012, 04:03 PM
  #118
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The most important reason to look at shots allowed instead of goals allowed to evaluate a player's PK performance is that no individual player in the league has spent enough time on the PK this season for the SV% when he's been on the ice to be anything more than noise.

And, by shots allowed, Winnik is (and this isn't hyperbole) the best penalty killer in the NHL.

The Avs are #16 by PK efficiency% but that's all because goaltending has let them down, just like it has this year at even strength. They're a much better team than their record indicates and, again based on shots allowed, they're the 2nd best penalty kill in the league and Winnik has been their most important PKer. There's absolutely no reason he shouldn't step in and become the Sharks' #1 PK forward after learning the system (in fact, maybe it's better that he doesn't...)

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02-27-2012, 04:04 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
How do you think Poile did? Seems pretty solid for the Preds, too.

I'm not so sure the Hodgson for Kassian deal is great now - maybe in a couple years. They just lost 3rd line scoring potential.
Poile probably got Goose for the same reason DW got Zeus. A big guy to take on large centers. Fisher and Legwand aren't exactly big. Goose also gives them faceoffs. It is a way to get around not having big #1 and #2 centers although Smithson wasn't that bad. IMO, Smithson fit in better with the speed profile of Nashville. Gaustad is slow.

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02-27-2012, 04:07 PM
  #120
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Enjoy Winnik and TJ. #hockeybeauties

Galiardi needs a kick in the butt, but can be a great addition. Winnik will shore up your PK instantly, but his agent is looking for a lot of money. He will likely test the waters in free agency.

Two good additions to your lineup. Good luck guys!

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02-27-2012, 04:07 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
So he might end up someday being what McGinn is now?
TJ is pretty good in his own zone, he can be used on PK and he doesn't look out of place there, reading what you guys are posting about McGinn TJ is an upgrade over him in the defensive department.

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02-27-2012, 04:09 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Really? I have just the opposite reaction. The more I analyze this trade, the more I hate it.

The Sharks just got massively softer, lost even more scoring from the bottom 6, addressed a "need" that wasn't there (defensive forward), and from what I can tell traded a young player who was motivated to put in a lot of effort into his development for a 3/4 tweener impending UFA who wants $2.5 mil a year (and who isn't worth that by a long shot) and an inconsistent headcase who's top potential is as a good 3rd liner who seems less interested in putting in consistent effort than Mitchell or McGinn.

And that doesn't even take in the further depletion of an already massively depleted prospect pool. The Sharks are now down to 1 forward prospect who might have top 6 potential in Nieto.

Wilson proves once again (to me) that he should be fired ASAP and this org needs a major change in management.
Yeah, adding the best penalty killing forward in the NHL who drove possession to a terrific degree on a horrible Avs team last season and did it again this year while being an integral part of one of the best young lines in hockey early on with Landeskog and O'Reilly really makes the Sharks a lot "softer."

Galiardi is a better player than McGinn and McGinn just isn't very good. He's one of just two Sharks forwards underwater in possession and he's playing against terrible opponents. He had a nice hot streak there and McLellan wisely gave him some PP time to raise his stock but it was a mirage. He's marginally better than he was the last three seasons, if at all.

You really think Connolly or Sgarbossa was ever going to make a difference at the NHL level or even come close to being players whose values superseded that of readily available free agents from the scrap heap? You realize these guys went undrafted for a reason, yes?

Some people really have no clue what types of players drive success in the NHL. But I'm glad Doug Wilson isn't one of them.

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02-27-2012, 04:09 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Corsi QOC

The reason I looked is because GAON/60 doesn't always translate between teams. I do like that Winnik was carrying a load but it was on a middle tier PK (rank #16). LW can pitch in with shots allowed. I'd still go with Pavs/Marleau as #1 pair. I want JT and Zeus off PK. I haven't looked up Moore. Galiardi was second pair on the Avs. When healthy, I'd probably line it up as Pavs/Marleau, Couture/Winnik, Moore/Galiardi, Havlat/Desi.
LW,
Winnik doesn't put up enough pts to be over 4th line. #10 is a high quality 4th liner. Points say he might become a low quality 3rd liner.
My points benchmarks:
15 - #12
20 - #11
25 - #10
30 - #9
35 - #8
40 - #7 (tweener)
THanks, makes sense now. Yes, getting JT & Zus off PK would be massive. All the above fwds are pretty quick/fast/good hockey sense so we can hopefully be more aggressive at the top and pressure the points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Really? I have just the opposite reaction. The more I analyze this trade, the more I hate it.

The Sharks just got massively softer, lost even more scoring from the bottom 6, addressed a "need" that wasn't there (defensive forward), and from what I can tell traded a young player who was motivated to put in a lot of effort into his development for a 3/4 tweener impending UFA who wants $2.5 mil a year (and who isn't worth that by a long shot) and an inconsistent headcase who's top potential is as a good 3rd liner who seems less interested in putting in consistent effort than Mitchell or McGinn.

And that doesn't even take in the further depletion of an already massively depleted prospect pool. The Sharks are now down to 1 forward prospect who might have top 6 potential in Nieto.

Wilson proves once again (to me) that he should be fired ASAP and this org needs a major change in management.
It wouldn't be a good DW trade without the obligatory Vaasa rant, now would it?

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02-27-2012, 04:10 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Yeah, adding the best penalty killing forward in the NHL who drove possession to a terrific degree on a horrible Avs team last season and did it again this year while being an integral part of one of the best young lines in hockey early on with Landeskog and O'Reilly really makes the Sharks a lot "softer."

Galiardi is a better player than McGinn and McGinn just isn't very good. He's one of just two Sharks forwards underwater in possession and he's playing against terrible opponents. He had a nice hot streak there and McLellan wisely gave him some PP time to raise his stock but it was a mirage. He's marginally better than he was the last three seasons, if at all.

You really think Connolly or Sgarbossa was ever going to make a difference at the NHL level or even come close to being players whose values superseded that of readily available free agents from the scrap heap? You realize these guys went undrafted for a reason, yes?

Some people really have no clue what types of players drive success in the NHL. But I'm glad Doug Wilson isn't one of them.
I agree with you (about like everything here. Except I'm not as negative towards McGinn).

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02-27-2012, 04:10 PM
  #125
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Really? I have just the opposite reaction. The more I analyze this trade, the more I hate it.

The Sharks just got massively softer, lost even more scoring from the bottom 6, addressed a "need" that wasn't there (defensive forward), and from what I can tell traded a young player who was motivated to put in a lot of effort into his development for a 3/4 tweener impending UFA who wants $2.5 mil a year (and who isn't worth that by a long shot) and an inconsistent headcase who's top potential is as a good 3rd liner who seems less interested in putting in consistent effort than Mitchell or McGinn.

And that doesn't even take in the further depletion of an already massively depleted prospect pool. The Sharks are now down to 1 forward prospect who might have top 6 potential in Nieto.

Wilson proves once again (to me) that he should be fired ASAP and this org needs a major change in management.
So exactly how long have you hated Wilson? You realize that this year is the first time we'll finish lower than the #2 seed since '06-'07? Wilson has done nothing but keep the Sharks a perennial contendor. We don't know yet if this trade is going to work out for us or not, and the fact that you're basing his competence on previous decisions that've only done us well shows that you might just be spoiled.

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