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Your 2011-12 San Jose Sharks (if) going into the playoffs...

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Old
02-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #26
Herschel
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I like what the Sharks did and I think they have some interesting options for line ups and should give them different looks depending on the match ups.

Against Detroit, Vancouver & Chicago you load up the top two lines and go with speed on the third line. Which is where SJ hasn't matched up very well in the past.

Against the more balanced attached of Nashville Phoenix & St Louis you can pull up a burner to play with the two Joe's and move Marleau to the second line and Havlat to the third.

While I dont think the San Jose did enough to be considered favourites (at least at this point) I do think that if Neimi finds his form this team has the top end skill to compete.

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Old
02-27-2012, 05:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
That's a great team on paper assuming half of them don't get killed between now and the playoffs (that includes hoping Havlat doesn't break his ribs and hip eating a bagel or something), Niemi playing better and the team as a whole remembering that they're pros in the best league in the world and not a bunch of 12 year old girls in a no contact rec league.
He'll throw out his back sneezing...

Allergy season is tough yo.

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Old
02-27-2012, 05:52 PM
  #28
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No love for shep?
I Shep.

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02-27-2012, 06:07 PM
  #29
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i think it is telling what a total failure our off season actually was. burns has turned out to be merely good (instead of the awesome dman we thought we got), but havlat and zeus are total busts that DW had to fix with 3 3rd-line acquisitions. and colin white is just beyond awful.

obv havlat has been hurt so it's hard to make judgements on him, but that's the point. it's not like his glass status was a secret. basically if you think about it, there is a possibility that of those 3, havlat is sitting on the IL for the playoffs (or maybe even playing 4th line for goodness sake), zeus is healthy scratch not even good enough for our 4th line, and white is (and should be) our 8th dman. just atrocious.

remind me again why we didn't sign welly to a min contract?

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02-27-2012, 06:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
i think it is telling what a total failure our off season actually was. burns has turned out to be merely good (instead of the awesome dman we thought we got), but havlat and zeus are total busts that DW had to fix with 3 3rd-line acquisitions. and colin white is just beyond awful.

obv havlat has been hurt so it's hard to make judgements on him, but that's the point. it's not like his glass status was a secret. basically if you think about it, there is a possibility that of those 3, havlat is sitting on the IL for the playoffs (or maybe even playing 4th line for goodness sake), zeus is healthy scratch not even good enough for our 4th line, and white is (and should be) our 8th dman. just atrocious.

remind me again why we didn't sign welly to a min contract?

Wilson probably thought he was too fat

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02-27-2012, 06:15 PM
  #31
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No love for shep?
good one.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
i think it is telling what a total failure our off season actually was. burns has turned out to be merely good (instead of the awesome dman we thought we got), but havlat and zeus are total busts that DW had to fix with 3 3rd-line acquisitions. and colin white is just beyond awful.

obv havlat has been hurt so it's hard to make judgements on him, but that's the point. it's not like his glass status was a secret. basically if you think about it, there is a possibility that of those 3, havlat is sitting on the IL for the playoffs (or maybe even playing 4th line for goodness sake), zeus is healthy scratch not even good enough for our 4th line, and white is (and should be) our 8th dman. just atrocious.

remind me again why we didn't sign welly to a min contract?
Burns has been great, especially lately. No one is going to regret that trade in a few years (unless Coyle beats the odds and turns into a star forward).

Havlat we simply don't know on. He's been putting up decent points (not goals) but has been injured too much to really have had a good look at. Missing camp is always hard on a player and generally means a down season. Especially on a brand new team. I expect if he's healthy for the playoffs we'll be singing his praises this off-season, he's a playoff kind of guy.

Handzus has sucked, but I don't really blame Wilson for that. He couldn't have forseen him falling off a cliff all of the sudden. He had the right idea (and remember, I wasn't a big fan of the deal anyway because of his skating) it just didn't work out. It happens.

Overall I'm happy with his moves last off-season.

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02-27-2012, 06:19 PM
  #33
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I like Mitchell on the first line. Putting Marleau on the third gives us depth, and Thornton still has someone faster on his left.

When completely healthy...

Mitchell - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Galiardi - Marleau - Moore
Winnik - Handzus - Desjardins

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
Demers/Braun - Vandermeer

White scratched.

Demers and Braun can compete for the last spot down the stretch.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Galiardi-Moore-Winnik
Winchester-Handzus-Desjardins
Ferriero-Mitchell-Wingels

Vlasic-Boyle
Murray-Burns
Braun-Demers
White-Vandermeer

Niemi
Greiss

---------

Honestly, on paper, that is a very good and deep team;
You have seen the rosters of the other teams in the West, right?

Considering injuries and play this year, our forwards go 4 players deep, our D goes three and we have two goaltenders that are playing somewhere between average and shaky. We lack speed and we don't play physical. The fact that we think a third line of Galiardi, Moore and Winnik is a good thing heading into the playoffs says a lot about the depth of our team. Realistically, this is the worst lineup we've had at this point in the season in years.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Burns has been great, especially lately. No one is going to regret that trade in a few years (unless Coyle beats the odds and turns into a star forward).

Havlat we simply don't know on. He's been putting up decent points (not goals) but has been injured too much to really have had a good look at. Missing camp is always hard on a player and generally means a down season. Especially on a brand new team. I expect if he's healthy for the playoffs we'll be singing his praises this off-season, he's a playoff kind of guy.

Handzus has sucked, but I don't really blame Wilson for that. He couldn't have forseen him falling off a cliff all of the sudden. He had the right idea (and remember, I wasn't a big fan of the deal anyway because of his skating) it just didn't work out. It happens.

Overall I'm happy with his moves last off-season.
I am completley happy with teh burns trade, but he hasn't been the absoluste stud we thought we got. yeah he has gotten a lot better, and i am happy we have him. the other trades less so. yeah ill admit if havlat comes back and leads us in the po i will sing his praises, but as of right now, everything bad about him is coming true. inconsistent? check. streaky? check. misses more than 1/2 the season? check. at least heater is a warm body. i won't say this was a bad trade, cuz heater had a horrible contract, but we might just as well be stuck with havlat with his ntc too for even longer. jury is still out, but it's not looking good right now as we are massively struggling.

and we can indeed blame dw for the zeus signing. he should have known better, he has scouts and watches tape more than any of us. i and a few others wanted to resign welly, thot welly earned at least a min contract. instead he decides he wants to go another direction, which is fine, but that has turned out horribly. he absolutely has to be responsible for that. and that is why he had to trade for THREE 3rd liners. his off season vision of our 3rd line is 100% a total failure.

also i won't blame him for white, but man, what a disapointment. don't know what else to say about that one.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacArthur View Post
I like Mitchell on the first line. Putting Marleau on the third gives us depth, and Thornton still has someone faster on his left.

When completely healthy...

Mitchell - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Galiardi - Marleau - Moore
Winnik - Handzus - Desjardins

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
Demers/Braun - Vandermeer

White scratched.

Demers and Braun can compete for the last spot down the stretch.

only problem is, we're not paying marleau 6.9mill to play on the 3rd and mitchell 1.7 to play on 1st. sometimes i do feel like marleau needs to be dropped so he gets the message and not be such a *****. but he gets paid way too much to get less shifts.

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02-27-2012, 06:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TealTownUSA View Post
only problem is, we're not paying marleau 6.9mill to play on the 3rd and mitchell 1.7 to play on 1st. sometimes i do feel like marleau needs to be dropped so he gets the message and not be such a *****. but he gets paid way too much to get less shifts.
Well with this set up we can even out the ice time a bit. Three scoring lines with roughly equal ice time, too much for the other team's coach to counter. Like the 2002 Red Wings or 2010 Blackhawks. And go back to 12 - 19 - 8 for the first PP unit. It'll be about depth, not punishing Marleau.

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02-27-2012, 06:26 PM
  #38
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When fully healthy, assuming Clowe continues to stink it up:

Winnik-Thornton-Pavs
Marleau-Couture-Havlat
Clowe-Moore-Galiardi
Winchester-Desjardins-Mitchell/Ferriero/Zeus

Vlasic-Boyle
Demers-Burns
Murray-Braun
Vandy
White

Niemi
Griess

I'm wondering how having Winnik on the top line would play out, also want to drop Clowe to the third line.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:49 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TealTownUSA View Post
only problem is, we're not paying marleau 6.9mill to play on the 3rd and mitchell 1.7 to play on 1st. sometimes i do feel like marleau needs to be dropped so he gets the message and not be such a *****. but he gets paid way too much to get less shifts.
There's never a need to drop Marleau down anywhere. You get what you get out of Marleau and he's generally underrated especially by Sharks fans. Ever since McLellan has gotten here, Marleau has been at worst the 2nd best two-way forward on the team in any given year and in reality he has been the best because his production dwarfs Pavs and Couture to date. You can move him around anyway and he still gets it done. That's what sets him and Pavs apart from the others on this team. Couture is on his way but he's not there yet. He's still reliant on Clowe to take care of business as we saw in Minnesota when Clowe isn't doing the job.

As for the line combos, I don't much care for the concept of having three new guys be a third line that needs to contribute immediately and in the playoffs. For now, I'd probably roll with...

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Moore
Galiardi-Handzus-Winnik
Winchester-Desjardins-Mitchell/Wingels

When Havlat gets healthy, it gets tricky. I'd probably put him with Thornton and Pavelski as much as I don't like that mix of skills, move Marleau down to third line center, and put Handzus on the 4th line and take Mitchell out or even put Handzus out altogether...depends on the matchups. I don't mind Wingels in that last spot either.

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
When fully healthy, assuming Clowe continues to stink it up:

Winnik-Thornton-Pavs
Marleau-Couture-Havlat
Clowe-Moore-Galiardi
Winchester-Desjardins-Mitchell/Ferriero/Zeus

Vlasic-Boyle
Demers-Burns
Murray-Braun
Vandy
White

Niemi
Griess

I'm wondering how having Winnik on the top line would play out, also want to drop Clowe to the third line.
Not a good idea with his hands of stone.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:00 PM
  #41
hockeyball
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Not a good idea with his hands of stone.
Yah if you are going to give someone a shot on the top line, it's Galiardi.

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02-27-2012, 07:07 PM
  #42
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I read that DW got TJ and Winnik in a package deal because of their chemistry, i doubt they split those two up.. and before Havlat got injured the Clowe-Couture-Havlat line was developing some good chemistry. if Clowe does stink it up, i wouldn't be opposed to giving Winchester or Wingels some 2nd line time.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:08 PM
  #43
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I am very happy with our depth now, but Vancouver's depth is pretty scary too

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Pahlsson-Lappiere-Kassian
Ebbett

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Rome-Gragnani
Albers/Tanev

Luongo
Schneider

And this is w/o Ballard...that is one deep team, but we're not too far behind I think. Go Sharks!

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02-27-2012, 07:15 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I am very happy with our depth now, but Vancouver's depth is pretty scary too

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Pahlsson-Lappiere-Kassian
Ebbett

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Rome-Gragnani
Albers/Tanev

Luongo
Schneider

And this is w/o Ballard...that is one deep team, but we're not too far behind I think. Go Sharks!
Honestly, I don't think Vancouver is that scary. Kassian is an inexperienced rookie, Ebbett is garbage, Malhotra is having a down year, Higgins and Hansen are no better than Winnik and Galiardi, Raymond is having a rough year, Rome and Gragnani is a pretty poor third pairing, Alberts sucks, and Tanev is inexperienced and unproven. The only thing Vancouver has on us is goaltending. I'm more worried about Detroit, St. Louis and Nashville.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:15 PM
  #45
TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I am very happy with our depth now, but Vancouver's depth is pretty scary too

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Pahlsson-Lappiere-Kassian
Ebbett

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Rome-Gragnani
Albers/Tanev

Luongo
Schneider

And this is w/o Ballard...that is one deep team, but we're not too far behind I think. Go Sharks!
I dunno. I like their top-6 a bit better than ours, but I like our bottom-6 better now.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:31 PM
  #46
hockeyball
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I dunno. I like their top-6 a bit better than ours, but I like our bottom-6 better now.
top-6 I rate their forwards:

Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Ryan Kessler
David Booth
Alex Burrows
Mason Raymond

Our rate ours:

Joe Thornton
Patrick Marleau
Joe Pavelski
Logan Couture
Martin Havlat
Ryane Clowe

So:
Daniel > Joe
Henrik > Marleau (Marleau far better defensively)
Kesler > Pavelski (barely)
Booth < Couture
Burrows < Havlat
Raymond < Clowe

So it's pretty close, to be honest I like our top-6 better because of their two-way play, and size. Plus Joe the Troll.

Bottom 6 wise i'd rank them:

Higgins
Hansen
Malhotra
Pahlsson
Kassian
Lappiere
Ebbett

and ours:
Moore
Galiardi
Winnik
Handzus
Winchester
Wingels
Desjardins
Mitchell
Ferriero
Sheppard

So:
Higgins > Moore
Hanson = Galiardi
Malhotra = Handzus
Pahlsson < Winnik
Beyond that it's a crap shoot.

pretty evenly matched really.

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02-27-2012, 07:39 PM
  #47
Leidi J
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I think I'd go with

Wingels - Thornton - Pavelski
Marleau - Couture - Clowe
Galiardi - Moore - Havlat
Winnik - Handzus - Ferriero
Mitchell - Desjardins - Winchester

If everyone's healthy we baiscally have 5 functional lines which is a lot of depth for the playoffs.

1. I like how Wingels has played the last few games up there. He's been scoring goals and doing some really great things around the net, so I would ride that out a little bit and if he starts to slip you could switch him with Galiardi and try him up there with Pavs and Jumbo.
2. This line has been pretty money at times. That's a damn good second scoring line.
3. Speedy!!! Moore and Havlat both seem like they could use the speed to make plays and feed the new guy, who if i've been reading quickly is also quite fast. Fast playmaking line.
4. Handzus still has some leadership assets to the team I suppose and he at least seems to use hockey smarts to make some plays. Put him out there with Winnik who has speed but apparently has stone hands, and Ferriero who can get in around the goals and put in a clutch goal when needed.
5. Could switch Mitchell and Winnik around too i guess. This line has some speed, some grit, i dunno... works for me.

Vlasic-Boyle
Murray-Burns
Vandemeer/Demers-Braun
White

1. Boyle seems to have played better this year with Vlasic. Though it could just be that the switch up splitting him and Murray coincided with Boyle's foot getting better.
2. Going off of that I kinda would like to see Vlasic/Burns tried again. Burns' offense has stepped up recently, but he's had some defensive lapses.
3. Braun definitely gets to stick around every night in my eyes. He's better than Demers, smarter defensively and chips in some offensive flare when you're not expecting it. The other two are kind of a toss up, depending on whether you need more grit/toughness for the given opponent.
4. No more Colin White please.

Niemi
Griess

1. Nemo please come back to us? Seriously, it's starting to scare me a little bit.
2. The only thing keeping me from not full panic mode is that Greiss has been more than capable. Lots of the losses have not been his fault as far as i've seen. can't say the same for nemo right now. we'll see...

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02-27-2012, 07:43 PM
  #48
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How can you guys be forgetting the Almighty Sheppard?

When he comes back he'll make headlines, the next Peverley I preach.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:46 PM
  #49
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Marleau-Thornton-Clowe
Galiardi-Pavelski-Couture
Winnik-Moore-Havlat
Winchester-Handzus-Mitchell

Desjardins
Ferriero

Murray-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Demers-Vandermeer

Braun
(NO WHITE!)

Niemi
Greiss


I think it's essential having Galiardi with Couture and Clowe isn't doing his job


Last edited by Nighthock: 02-27-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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02-27-2012, 07:56 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
You have seen the rosters of the other teams in the West, right?

Considering injuries and play this year, our forwards go 4 players deep, our D goes three and we have two goaltenders that are playing somewhere between average and shaky. We lack speed and we don't play physical. The fact that we think a third line of Galiardi, Moore and Winnik is a good thing heading into the playoffs says a lot about the depth of our team. Realistically, this is the worst lineup we've had at this point in the season in years.
That's why I said on paper. Also how is it a bad third line? Do you remember what we had in the past?

2007-08: Grier-Mitchell-Roenick (Roenick was good)
2008-09: Moen-Goc-Cheechoo (the worst we had)
2009-10: Mitchell-Malhotra-Couture (Couture was nowhere what he is now, Malhotra had one point in the playoffs)
2010-11: Mitchell-Pavelski-Wellwood (no comment needed)

You can put Pavelski with Moore and Gariardi and you get a better third line than last year.

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