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[VAN/BUF] Hodgson and Sulzer for Z. Kassian and Gragnani

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02-27-2012, 11:13 PM
  #901
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
Eh?? Logan Couture is much better than Hodgson, in 50 ways, his numbers last year were much better than even the best case scenario for hodgson (55 points, 30 goals I believe) with really tough corsi stats.

Couture is much better than hodgson, you'd have to be a massive canucks homer to disagree.
What I don't get is, why do people think that Kassian's upside is so low? If anything his upside is really, really high. He has a great shot, good vision, amazing ability along the boards and on the cycle, and can pass decently well. Hell, he even has some dangles in him. He's more naturally talented than Lucic and Clowe, but similarly tough. Obviously, as for any PWF, it's a big uphill battle but the foundation with Kassian is pretty damn solid.

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02-27-2012, 11:13 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Auger View Post
That defeats the whole purpose of the discussion board. My assumption isn't even outlandish... if anything you're assuming that he'll be a good replacement for Kesler on our 1st unit PP.
Discussion board.

Question: How do you have a discussion about a player with somebody who has never seen the player in question play, in fact didn't even know who he was until you mentioned his name?

Answer: You don't.

...

You are proclaiming Kassian can't cycle and that he can't tip a puck...yet you know absolutely nothing about him...you've never seen him play a game in your life. Think about that for a sec...

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02-27-2012, 11:13 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Hodgson has some great hockey sense not unlike Couture, that alone will take him pretty far. He's a kind of player you make room for in your top six.
Absolutely. Only problem is he stuck behind Kes and Sedin.

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02-27-2012, 11:13 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
hansen was improved because of Hodgson. He wont score worth a lick with Phaulson
Hansen has 1 goal in his last 19 games. 3 in his last 30. He wasn't scoring worth a lick with Hodgson or Kesler or any linemate.

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02-27-2012, 11:14 PM
  #905
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San Jose did it right, they had Logan Couture last year who at the time was a third line center. He played well like Cody is for us, and they actually rewarded him with more minutes and found a spot for him. And now, they won't move him for a top goal scorer in the NHL. What do we do? We move our prized young center because our coach doesn't like that he's not a talentless goon.

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02-27-2012, 11:14 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Tank Hankerous View Post
Samuelsson, Glass, Torres and Hodgson gone from last years playoff forward group.

Booth, Pahlsson, Kassian, Wiese, Bitz added.

More size, anger, speed, net prescence and sandpaper. I think this team is better... And now with San Jose getting bigger and Gaustad and Gill adding to the Preds' size. I think this was necessary.

Yes and only ONE of Kassian, Weise, and Bitz will be in the lineup for any given playoff game. It doesn't make us tougher.

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02-27-2012, 11:14 PM
  #907
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Calling for Kassian and his 7 points to produce on the power play is even more ridiculous than assuming Steve Bernier would score 30 with the twins.

He's not even a legit NHLer yet. He's only played 27 games this year. You're over-selling him if you suddenly expect him to step into the Canucks PP and start tipping in goals. He's scored THREE NHL goals in his entire life.

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02-27-2012, 11:14 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
here's the thing, Kassian's skilled enough to play the first line and fights better than anybody in the Canucks org (watch the videos of him fighting). THe Sedin's will not get speedbagged again with Kassian here, this is why the analysts love this trade.
This was likely a big factor. Gillis has been looking for a good fighter for awhile and Kassian fits that bill.

Kassian's also known for his strong cycle, good RH shot and toughness. If you could handpick 3 skills that a Sedin linemate would have, those are it, to a tee.

The Canucks can talk about playing like Detroit all they want - they're not cut from the same cloth. Kesler, Burrows, Lapierre, Bieksa etc. like to be abbrassive and make life on the opposition hell. If you're going to play that way, wars will start. Having a huge player with a vicous left hand to watch over those guys, as well as make sure the Sedins aren't abused is nice to have. It also allows the Canucks to not have to dress a tough, waste of a roster spot goon - should bode well for a 4th line that is always in tough situations. There isn;t a player Kassian would be afraid to fight.

Hate moving Hodgson. Love picturing what Kassian could look like on the 1st or 2nd line RW in the near future.

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02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
How many teams win the cup without excellent depth scoring?

Pittsburgh won the cup despite Crosby only putting up 3 points in 7 games in the SCF because guys like Talbot, Staal, Kennedy, and Fedotenko were able to chip in to support Malkin's primary scoring.

Chicago won despite Toews only putting up 3 points in the SCF because guys like Brouwer, Versteeg, Byfuglien, and Bolland were there to back up Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

Is the Canucks depth going to be enough if the Sedins get shut down? Is the 3rd line centered by one of Lapierre, Malhotra, or Pahlsson going to provide the elite depth offense that is invariably required to win the cup? Maybe, maybe not. But people shouldn't pretend it's not a potential issue given how a very similar bottom 6 performed last playoffs.
It is an issue but at the same time our forward group has improved compared to last year (one that went to the SCF) with the additions of Kassian + Booth.

I think it is often overlook how big of an impact the injuries to Edler, Hamhuis, and Bieksa had not only on the defensive side of things but also the offensive side as they are the ones that push the play. Adding Gragnani definitely provides an insurance in case of injuries to the top-4.

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02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Just horrible for the Canucks. Kassian isn't a mature power forward who can step in and just tip the scales against the size/toughness of the likes of Lucic, Horton, Paille, Thornton, Marchand if Gillis is thinking about a Bruins type rematch or series. At the same time, his upside is probably much lower than Hodgson's. You certainly wouldn't deal a Logan Couture for a Zack Kassian.
Wait, Marchand is tough?! He's just a cheapshot artist who was afraid of Salo!

And Kassian is not going to take on everyone. We still have Booth and Kesler to a certain extent.

Not to mention, Thornton is a 4th liner. We have Bitz for that.

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02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
San Jose did it right, they had Logan Couture last year who at the time was a third line center. He played well like Cody is for us, and they actually rewarded him with more minutes and found a spot for him. And now, they won't move him for a top goal scorer in the NHL. What do we do? We move our prized young center because our coach doesn't like that he's not a talentless goon.
IDk, man. That's a bit harsh. Coho couldn't play wing worth a damn and we have 2 allstar centers. Where exactly was he supposed to slot in on our top 2 lines?

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02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
San Jose did it right, they had Logan Couture last year who at the time was a third line center. He played well like Cody is for us, and they actually rewarded him with more minutes and found a spot for him. And now, they won't move him for a top goal scorer in the NHL. What do we do? We move our prized young center because our coach doesn't like that he's not a talentless goon.
Logan Couture Is waaaaaaaaaaay better than Cody. If you think they are equal you are living in fantasy land.

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02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
here's the thing, Kassian's skilled enough to play the first line and fights better than anybody in the Canucks org (watch the videos of him fighting). THe Sedin's will not get speedbagged again with Kassian here, this is why the analysts love this trade.
So Hodgson, producing at a 20 goal pace playing 12 minutes per game on the third line, isn't good enough to play on the second line with Kesler (as center), but Kassian who has 3 goals and 7 points in 27 games in the NHL is good enough to play on our top PP unit and the first line?


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02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Just horrible for the Canucks. Kassian isn't a mature power forward who can step in and just tip the scales against the size/toughness of the likes of Lucic, Horton, Paille, Thornton, Marchand if Gillis is thinking about a Bruins type rematch or series. At the same time, his upside is probably much lower than Hodgson's. You certainly wouldn't deal a Logan Couture for a Zack Kassian.
Say what?

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02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
San Jose did it right, they had Logan Couture last year who at the time was a third line center. He played well like Cody is for us, and they actually rewarded him with more minutes and found a spot for him. And now, they won't move him for a top goal scorer in the NHL. What do we do? We move our prized young center because our coach doesn't like that he's not a talentless goon.
Couture can play defensive and PK. Hodgson can't.

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02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
Hansen has 1 goal in his last 19 games. 3 in his last 30. He wasn't scoring worth a lick with Hodgson or Kesler or any linemate.
Funny how his offense went south when Hodgson was demoted to the 4th line.

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
What I don't get is, why do people think that Kassian's upside is so low? If anything his upside is really, really high. He has a great shot, good vision, amazing ability along the boards and on the cycle, and can pass decently well. Hell, he even has some dangles in him. He's more naturally talented than Lucic and Clowe, but similarly tough. Obviously, as for any PWF, it's a big uphill battle but the foundation with Kassian is pretty damn solid.
the 4 goals he's scored this year have all been really good to. People point to Cody's goal against Thomas but that's really teh only nice one he's had. Replace his garbage goals with a guy who's 6'4" and gets garbage goals.

ZK has good hockey sense.

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #918
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I don't understand the lynch mob for Gillis. Lets look back guys, lets look back together! Remember earlier in the year when he got David Booth for scraps, one of our hardest working and consistent scorers as of late, for scraps?
He also said that that was our deadline deal. Now he just threw the whole bloody city in a loop

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Slashy McSlewfoot View Post
Discussion board.

Question: How do you have a discussion about a player with somebody who has never seen the player in question play, in fact didn't even know who he was until you mentioned his name?

Answer: You don't.

...

You are proclaiming Kassian can't cycle and that he can't tip a puck...yet you know absolutely nothing about him...you've never seen him play a game in your life. Think about that for a sec...
I think you should go back and re read the chain of discussion that you quoted.

1) I was responding to someone who said Kassian could replace Kesler on the first PP
2) I told him that they could try it but I doubt it would happen. I wasn't saying Kassian can't "tip a puck" or "cycle" because even an ECHL player can do those things, I was saying that he can't do it on our #1 PP unit. I was simply reiterating that Kesler's job isn't just to stand in front of the net.

Im sure they'll try it at some point in the season, but let's face it, it's more likely to not work than work out.

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #920
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Remember at the beginning of the year when everyone was looking for a goon? Well, now we've got one that can straight-up play.

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
if you really believe this you have no idea who Kassian is. I'm tempted to pre-order my jersey today (my other Jersey is a 40th anniversary RK 17)
Cool, so you obviously have realistic expectations for a rookie, and you're calling me out for suggesting that THIS SEASON Hodgson has more value to the team?

Yeah, hope you're correct.

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02-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So Hodgson, producing at a 20 goal pace playing 12 minutes per game on the third line, isn't good enough to play on the second line with Kesler (as center), but Kassian who has 3 goals and 7 points in 27 games in the NHL is good enough to play on our top PP unit and the first line?

Hodgson is not going to displace a 40 goal scoring Selke center to wing. Hodgson is ineffective as a winger.

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02-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Absolutely. Only problem is he stuck behind Kes and Sedin.
And that's why he was traded... Everything happens for a reason.

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02-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Funny how his offense went south when Hodgson was demoted to the 4th line.
Hansen has similar possesion numbers to Hodgson and they are BAD. The one constant betwixt the two of them is Hodgson.


When Hansen goes on Kesler's line he improves, if that tells you where the problem lies.

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02-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellwood You View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Lappy-Raymond
Pahlsson-Manny-Hansen

Ellington to CBJ as part of the Pahlsson deal.
I think that's a very hard team to play/score against.

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