Tavares hasn't been getting teed up like he was the last couple of seasons. The fact that we've now seen him stand up for himself, pathetic that he has to, is also reassuring to me. Sadly, it's mostly his own doing and nothing we've done to protect him. It's not like we're disagreeing with how things have been handled. It's also not like I'm making up excuses for previous or future behavior of the franchise.
We all know that there isn't a legitimate hockey excuse for the slow-slow rebuild. I think it's pretty obvious that we already know the economic one that is being played out.
While I agree that prospects don't necessarily pan out, we have a lot of quality ones coming along and they're coming alone quite nicely. Sure, all of them could somehow never pan out, but it's more likely that we'll be fine. I mean, I'm basically stating that I expect us to be a good team. It's not like I'm raising the bar that high. The risk that we're taking is that we'll lose out (literally) on being a great team, or never add enough payroll to get us to the next level from that point.
We've been drafting well enough and basically adding each season to our pool without losing much. Our NHL players are better now than when JT was drafted. Our prospects are better, as well. It's slow, painfully slow, but it's progressing.
There are different types of metamorphosis. We're obviously going through the gradual kind. I think we're now the 3rd instar. I'm measuring our actual growth from the day JT was drafted. We'll eventually reach adulthood, but it's going to take a few more molts than we would have liked (and it may not be as satisfying, or as cool, as a complete metamorphosis.)
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Mitch
I see that as his adaptation to the situation, not because of anything external from the players or management, just like you've said, but it still happens too much. I lived Mike Bossy's tenure and really don't want to see Tavares' first significant injury become a cronic, career shortening event. Kassian almost provided that. Luckily, John is a good healer.
I could deal with what you've outlined if the defensive wave came first as they tend to take longer to groom than forwards. It didn't happen that way, hence they need to move some bodies to play catch up. I don't think they can afford to wait until the defense catches up to the forwards. It is just too much time.
I hope you don't think I am one of the trade-happy clan. I have always been for drafting one's core, but the manner in which they've done it has been tragically inept. It takes an entire season of Tavares getting run his rookie year before they get a little tough. Then the tough guys cost Wang some scratch and most get pushed off the club, with arguably the best one exiled to the Bridge. Seriously, what mental patient is calling these shots?
Meanwhile every member of the Lollipop Guild gets their name stenciled on a starting position for 6 years. And in the end if Chuck really wanted to cheap out while building a monster via the slow route we could have loaded our club with goons, gotten the 1st overall pick the past 4 years, and really dazzled folks once the team started a real climb. And protect everyone at the same time. That would have accomplished Wang's goals I would think.
This year, with Nabster and PAP in, and the playoffs no longer viable (you need to see Garth's quote about going for the playoffs now) we may well diminish our pick's status. I'd rather have a lottery shot for Nail, with a guarantee of a great prospect regardless, rather than stealing games with a goaltender who won't be here July most likely, and a 2nd line forward who won't be either. Not at this point, anyway. So we get the door prize, but we choose the smallest one.
Some former HF'ers I chat with have the same theory; there is some basis to it. If the regime is still led by Charles Wang, there is a chance. Even if he filters more money into the team, who is to say that money won't be mismanaged? Even when Wang invested more into the payroll the team was perpetually mediocre. Trickle-down effect, it's starts at the top.
With that said, here's why there's a strong chance this does NOT turn into a Rick Nash situation.
A) JT is cut from a different cloth than Mr. Nash; JT is a "winner" and makes those better around him, plus his work ethic is impeccable AND he's more talented than Nash. This factor alone is a game changer.
B) In a few years this ownership/arena situation should be cleared up. Whether the Isles are playing elsewhere, or under a new regime, there should be more money filtered into the roster, and thus, the team should have external help to supplant the internal development.
I'm not going to lie, and I'm probably one of the more even-headed people around here, but my first response to this thread was:
**** you.
Now, having said that, JT just commited long term. As ridiculous as we are, we're nowhere near the train wreck that Columbus is. We have a direction, even if we're trying to take the longest possible amount of time to get there.
Even if we add nothing, in 2-3 years this team will be stacked with talent. We'll be a good team. Not having done anything to supplement the rebuild or adding enough payroll will put us at risk of not potentially becoming a great team (or shedding years off of our misery), but we'll be a good team no matter what. A playoff team. John Tavares will be a young man still when his contract is up. If we're out in the 1st round for the last few years of his contract, I'm sure he'll just go elsewhere then.
There's literally nothing, except for the squabbling of idiots on the other side of the border that get paid to talk when nobody should listen, that suggests that JT is unhappy, or doesn't want to be here.
Can that change? Of course. A lot of things can change. That's obviously the point of your thread, but the timing of this is rather pointless and the comparison with Nash really isn't a good one (because of said direction. It's obvious we're in a slow rebuild. Columbus, on the other hand, is obviously run by people who don't understand what it takes to build a team at all or how different pieces should fit together.)
I look at every weakness on our team and I see a good prospect (or multiples of them) that was picked to overcome our organizational weaknesses at the NHL level.
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Mitch
Posts like these are why I think you should be one of our Mods. Dead on, my friend...
Especially the "**** you" part(btw, even though it was clearly a joke, if that was me I would have been banned... guaranteed).
No for the simple fact Tavares has a contract that if he wants out, he will be a UFA by time he is 28. My Guess is if Tavares doesn't get extended before the last year of the deal starts the Islanders will actively try trade him and since he doesn't have a NMC it will be much easier to trade him.
Nash has been with Columbus for 9 years. All 9 of those years have been a circus which still hasn't produced anything close to a playoff team. How long do you listen to goofballs promise you they will build around you, and fumble the ball this bad? In 9 years even I could have built him a killer team via drafting alone. Yet Rick is the bad guy? Come on, you guys need to cut Rick some slack. You also need to wonder what it would take to anger anyone not named Tavares, let alone John. How many times of being told, "Oh, we want the playoffs this year and will build around you, etc..." does it take before you say, "Hey, I think you've been ************ me. I don't like people who lie to me about my future."
Your post was one of the many great posts in this thread (and given my thoughts when I clicked on the thread, I have to say that that was a positive surprise), but I can't help but feel like addding that Columbus did indeed make the playoffs a couple of years ago (2009).
In fatct, all was looking pretty good in Columbus at that point - plenty of young high-profile prospects, a young red hot goalie etc. They weren't even that bad last season (ie. better than the Isles), and they obviously thought they could get back into the playoffs through a couple of key acquisitions in the off-season.
I'm not going to lie, and I'm probably one of the more even-headed people around here, but my first response to this thread was:
**** you.
Now, having said that, JT just commited long term. As ridiculous as we are, we're nowhere near the train wreck that Columbus is. We have a direction, even if we're trying to take the longest possible amount of time to get there.
Even if we add nothing, in 2-3 years this team will be stacked with talent. We'll be a good team. Not having done anything to supplement the rebuild or adding enough payroll will put us at risk of not potentially becoming a great team (or shedding years off of our misery), but we'll be a good team no matter what. A playoff team. John Tavares will be a young man still when his contract is up. If we're out in the 1st round for the last few years of his contract, I'm sure he'll just go elsewhere then.
There's literally nothing, except for the squabbling of idiots on the other side of the border that get paid to talk when nobody should listen, that suggests that JT is unhappy, or doesn't want to be here.
Can that change? Of course. A lot of things can change. That's obviously the point of your thread, but the timing of this is rather pointless and the comparison with Nash really isn't a good one (because of said direction. It's obvious we're in a slow rebuild. Columbus, on the other hand, is obviously run by people who don't understand what it takes to build a team at all or how different pieces should fit together.)
I look at every weakness on our team and I see a good prospect (or multiples of them) that was picked to overcome our organizational weaknesses at the NHL level.
,
Mitch
I rip the Islanders just about as much as anyone, but I do agree we are in better shape than Columbus.
There was a time that our defense was built on Scott LaChance (4th overall), Darius Kasparaitis (5th overall), Kenny Jonsson (13th overall) Bryan McCabe (42nd overall, I believe), Bryan Berard (1st overall), and Eirc Brewer (5th overall), taken in 1991, 92, 93, 93, 95, and 97 respectively, and it was believed that our defense was going to be great. These were all 1st round picks, except for McCabe, who was a 2nd, and their respective high profiles were kind of in our face, and in turn, we had high hopes. Conspicuously missing from this list is Zdeno Chara, who was a 3rd round pick in 96, but at the time we drafted Brewer in 97, Chara's name was not mentioned as part of our "great, young D".
So the irony is, I think that our defense prospects are kind of being assembled okay. Matt Donovan is likely to be the next Bridgeport defenseman to get a taste of the NHL. And the overall organizational depth, at least at the prospect level is pretty good. Now, not all of these defenseman will be able to play for the Islanders, there are just too many of them. So that will eventually free at least one of them up to be part of a trade. Hopefully, they all try to outdo each other and raise their value.
So therefore, I don't think that Tavares will be in a similar situation as Nash.
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