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Old
01-16-2013, 11:08 PM
  #201
Doug19
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I'd rather Johansen get sent down and not have to ever play under Richards. Bring Johansen back up once that jackass gets canned, no way that fumbling buffoon lasts more than a year or two here.

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01-16-2013, 11:13 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I hope he gets a chance to help our new defense move this organization forward... JJ if anyone would agree with me...

Other than Nash (and perhaps Klesla and Brassard) the CBJ have failed with every first round pick they have ever drafted, is it the young player or is it the organization and the fans perception of what these guys are supposed to be off the ice?

Not every first round pick over a lifetime can be a bust...
Voracek wasn't a bust. We don't know about Moore, Johansen, and Murray.

Look at what those busts have done after being traded from Columbus. Leclaire, Brule, Picard, Filatov, and Zherdev all failed on their own accords. They shouldn't have been picked where they were, sure, but I don't think the organization "failed" to develop them. Those guys weren't going to succeed even had they not been drafted by Columbus (maybe Brule aside).

Do you think Zherdev failed because Columbus drafted him? No, he failed because he's a headcase. Getting drafted by Nashville wouldn't have kept Leclaire's bones from exploding every season. Alexandre Picard was just plain bad. Filatov wasn't nearly done being developed, there was plenty of time for him to turn it around but where is he? Back in Russia for the 3rd time.

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01-16-2013, 11:15 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I hope he gets a chance to help our new defense move this organization forward... JJ if anyone would agree with me...

Other than Nash (and perhaps Klesla and Brassard) the CBJ have failed with every first round pick they have ever drafted, is it the young player or is it the organization and the fans perception of what these guys are supposed to be off the ice?

Not every first round pick over a lifetime can be a bust...
It's the people picking the young players.

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01-17-2013, 10:04 AM
  #204
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Perhaps he is hoping to be traded? I don't know but what I do know is if Richardson or Howson call the shots on Johansen he will fail...
Please stop typing Richardson when you mean Richards. I know it's hard to stop those flying fingers when they're on a roll, but please try.

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01-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #205
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I feel like I'm watching the blind argue with the blind over what color the elephant is.

Can we at least confine our second-guessing to AFTER folks have screwed up, rather then predicting failure and then assigning blame for it? Because that latter is how idiotic urban legends of dire horrible nonevents get started.

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01-17-2013, 04:45 PM
  #206
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So Johansen made the team. He's going to get his first real chance to center an NHL line between reliable linemates. I see very good but not exceptional talent. I think he's too nice of a kid. He is not aggressive enough with his big frame. He was not dominating in the AHL (he was doing fine) and he only had 12 PIMs in 34 games. Is this another development year or is this the year for a step. What are the expectations on Johansen this year now that he's made the team? What would be a successful season?

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01-17-2013, 05:29 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
So Johansen made the team. He's going to get his first real chance to center an NHL line between reliable linemates. I see very good but not exceptional talent. I think he's too nice of a kid. He is not aggressive enough with his big frame. He was not dominating in the AHL (he was doing fine) and he only had 12 PIMs in 34 games. Is this another development year or is this the year for a step. What are the expectations on Johansen this year now that he's made the team? What would be a successful season?
I think if he consistently makes his linemates better to produce points, it'd be a success. That sound kind of vague I know but he just needs to be consistently improving. Hopefully he earns/is given a chance and isnt just plopped on the bench after a rough game or two. Bad games are to be expected really, they are probably putting him in the NHL when he could use more time in the A. Thats okay if they plan on giving him a real chance to see what he has to offer.

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01-17-2013, 08:45 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
So Johansen made the team. He's going to get his first real chance to center an NHL line between reliable linemates. I see very good but not exceptional talent. I think he's too nice of a kid. He is not aggressive enough with his big frame. He was not dominating in the AHL (he was doing fine) and he only had 12 PIMs in 34 games. Is this another development year or is this the year for a step. What are the expectations on Johansen this year now that he's made the team? What would be a successful season?
I hate the thought that just because a guy is big he has to be mean. Nicklas Lidstrom was 6'2", but you would never know it by his play style. Was he less effective because he didn't throw huge hits and punish people in front of the net?

A successful year for me, in a shortened season, would be a building year. Play in 42+ games, score 30 or so points. We don't have a hugely talented team offensively, and that should put him in the top 4 or 5 scorers almost undoubtedly. Then, next year, with a full training camp and possibly better linemates, we could start to expect to see his full potential unleashed. If that doesn't happen, then I think we can start to worry.

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01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
  #209
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Anything over 20 points is a success in my books.

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01-18-2013, 02:15 PM
  #210
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Puckrakers guesses Johansen will be scratched tomorrow in favor of Letestu.

If it is going to be like this, send him down.

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01-18-2013, 02:21 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Puckrakers guesses Johansen will be scratched tomorrow in favor of Letestu.

If it is going to be like this, send him down.
agreed...

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01-18-2013, 03:08 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Puckrakers guesses Johansen will be scratched tomorrow in favor of Letestu.

If it is going to be like this, send him down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
agreed...
Can we make clear right now how soon "going to be like this" can be established? My suggestion, and call me crazy, would be to actually wait for it to happen in reality at least once.

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01-18-2013, 03:13 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Can we make clear right now how soon "going to be like this" can be established? My suggestion, and call me crazy, would be to actually wait for it to happen in reality at least once.
if he's gonna be a regular scratch...what is wrong with worrying about development...

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01-18-2013, 03:15 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Can we make clear right now how soon "going to be like this" can be established? My suggestion, and call me crazy, would be to actually wait for it to happen in reality at least once.
Seeing as though this is a potential discussion of a hypothetical trend, I would prefer the threshold being happening in reality two or more times. Preferably three or more, but that might be overly demanding.

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if he's gonna be a regular scratch...what is wrong with worrying about development...
The problem isn't "worrying about development" so much as it is "PREMATURE worrying".

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01-18-2013, 04:00 PM
  #215
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In the old days you argued/discussed sports over a beer or at work. Intellectual arguments rarely reared their ugly heads. I am so sick of all this bs of people telling us we shouldn't predict, speculate, hypothesize,etc. that I can't wait for the games to start so we will all know the facts and can be accepted as knowledgeable fans. All of the guessing, etc is part of the fun. Give me the old days anytime.

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01-18-2013, 04:13 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
if he's gonna be a regular scratch...what is wrong with worrying about development...
I think its entirely possible for young players that more development might take place in practice than in games. I would like Johansen to work with as highly skilled wings as possible. He can do this in practice with the top line. I wonder how many kids pick up bad habits trying to survive in games.

I'm also not convinced a lot of time in the AHL is all that valuable for a skilled center.

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01-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
In the old days you argued/discussed sports over a beer or at work. Intellectual arguments rarely reared their ugly heads. I am so sick of all this bs of people telling us we shouldn't predict, speculate, hypothesize,etc. that I can't wait for the games to start so we will all know the facts and can be accepted as knowledgeable fans. All of the guessing, etc is part of the fun. Give me the old days anytime.
...are you seriously kvetching about the fact that arguments are too intelligent nowadays?

Ouch, hon. Ouch.

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01-18-2013, 04:34 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
In the old days you argued/discussed sports over a beer or at work. Intellectual arguments rarely reared their ugly heads. I am so sick of all this bs of people telling us we shouldn't predict, speculate, hypothesize,etc. that I can't wait for the games to start so we will all know the facts and can be accepted as knowledgeable fans. All of the guessing, etc is part of the fun. Give me the old days anytime.

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01-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...are you seriously kvetching about the fact that arguments are too intelligent nowadays?

Ouch, hon. Ouch.
Nope just kvetching about not being able to speculate, hypothesize, and all around strike up conversation when there are no games bc posters keep calling them out on it because its "premature." I say do whatever the hell you want. People need to stop telling other posters what they can and cant do bc its unintelligent in there eyes. Its a ****ing message board, this is where overspeculation, hyperbole, and all those other fun things are meant to be stressed out about .

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01-18-2013, 05:04 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...are you seriously kvetching about the fact that arguments are too intelligent nowadays?

Ouch, hon. Ouch.
No.Intelligent arguments are very good; what I'm annoyed with is the constant "why don't we wait and see what happens" bs. Obviously we will know what happens when it does but without the speculation, what ifs, I thinks, predictions, etc. this place would be very boring. Just gripes my ass that there is a crowd here that just automatically dismisses someone's opinion with a "why don't we wait" retort. That's all.

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01-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #221
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thanks Espen and Gagne...great points made

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01-18-2013, 05:51 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Can we make clear right now how soon "going to be like this" can be established? My suggestion, and call me crazy, would be to actually wait for it to happen in reality at least once.
You left out the "if" in my statement. I was implying if he is going to be a healthy scratch regularly, then... That's not to mean it will be the case.

However, can anyone else think of a reason why Richards would scratch Johansen the first game besides the fact that he doesn't think Johansen is capable of playing almost every game? He isn't injured as far as we know.

I'll defend the choice to bring up Johansen last year. But there's a difference between "we didn't think he was capable of handling the rigors of playing every game as a rookie... see the Bruins did the same with Seguin" and having your 4th overall 22 year old center be a healthy scratch during his second pro season.

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01-18-2013, 05:52 PM
  #223
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I'd rather have Letestu in the lineup against Nashville. We'll see RyJo opening night.

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01-18-2013, 05:56 PM
  #224
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thanks Espen and Gagne...great points made
Agreed. The season hasn't even started. Even with an abbreviated training camp the resident "opinion police" are in midseason form.

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01-18-2013, 05:59 PM
  #225
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Agreed. The season hasn't even started. Even with an abbreviated training camp the resident "opinion police" are in midseason form.
If they wanted to go that route, they could have said that this is just based on Portzline's guess and the game isn't even until tomorrow.

The point isn't about whether or not Johansen will be scratched regularly, it's about the fact that there's even a question. Remember what happened last year? Johansen was scratched much more frequently under Richards than Arniel. The worry that he will treat Johansen the same way as he did last season is, I think, a legitimate issue. If we still had Hitchcock, people would be crying out that he's ruining yet another young, offensively talented kid.

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