HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Next Year's Lineup

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2012, 09:54 PM
  #26
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,917
vCash: 50
The writing Parise into every lineup thing is getting a little presumptuous.

__________________
"I have something better than proof: I have anecdotal evidence."
Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 09:58 PM
  #27
BroadwayHustle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
What's the alternative? Hartford? You can groom scorers on the third line of an NHL squad.
It can be the AHL, but I also think he would be effective enough on the 3rd line if he is just expected to work hard and play responsible defense.

And to the others if we don't sign Parise, it is possible JT Miller makes the team, maybe Christian Thomas has a great camp OR Fedotenko is a late signing. Also, I know everyone is down on Dubinsky, but if he returns to form the team becomes that much better.

BroadwayHustle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:04 PM
  #28
district9
Registered User
 
district9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 716
vCash: 500
if parise happens this is what i'm picturing for february 27th 2013 (i'm going by torts' model of no 1st line, no 2nd line, etc. just lines for roles. i'm not saying that first line is the best it's just what i picture starting a lot of games)

dubinsky-richards-callahan
parise-stepan-gaborik
kreider-anisimov-hagelin
feds-boyle-prust
rupp/mitchell

if NO moves are made, i see the lineups looking like this at the beginning of the year

hagelin-richards-callahan
anisimov-stepan-gaborik
dubinsky-mitchell-kreider
feds-boyle-prust
rupp

defense will totally depend on a lot of things, mostly if staal gets back to 100% game shape by the beginning of next season and can be back where he was.

girardi-mcdonagh
staal-del zotto
sauer-erixon

bickel i think will stay around and be a healthy scratch who can play both positions.

kreider is a bubble guy in my opinion, i could see him playing in the nhl but could also see him down in hartford for at least the beginning of the season. i also think a lot of people are sleeping on two guys who i think could make an impact on this team (especially the 3rd line) down the road. jonathon audy-marchessault and shane mccolgan are two guys who i see playing on this team within 2 years, and if the rangers sign JAM to a new contract at the end of this season i could even see him cracking the lineup next season.

district9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:06 PM
  #29
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Why do you people insist on including Parise in next years lineup?

HE'S NOT COMING HERE!!!!
Devils didn't give him the contract he wanted last year. There was also a lot of reported tension between him and management after that when he voiced his displeasure of not being guaranteed a contract.

The fact that he hasn't signed an extension makes it likely that he's going to test free agency waters.

Players sign with rivals all the time, look back at 24/7 when they focused on Talbot, and you'll see while team mates might be surprised, a player will ultimately do what is best for him.

The Devils will have a lot of needs too. Marty doesn't have too many more seasons left, if any, after this one. To find a goalie to match that level of play is incredibly hard, and so much of the Devil's current and past success is derived from Marty's dominance.

I look at them and see their current success as being their maximum potential, at least for the next 5 years, especially when you take into account the uncertainty of their goalie retiring.

Financially, they are a more financially strapped franchise than others. They aren't bottom feeding, but they don't excessively spend. It seems like to get Parise on a roster, some team will have to pony up. Don't tell me he'll take a hometown discount because as I've stated earlier that's unlikely due to his position with management and how these last few years with his contract negotiations have gone. If they want to keep him they'll have to pay as much as the highest bidder.

That being said, which team will offer the most for him?

Certainly not Detroit. They thrive because they sign all of their stars to discounts. They also like to sign players from within their conference, ones with familiarity to the type of system those teams play. I'm sure they'll inquire, maybe even offer, but I don't think they offer him the best.

Therefore, any other team, will have an equal opportunity to make a pitch and successfully try and pry Parise away from the Devils. It just so happens we have that exact need as a team. It just so happens that we have an amazing core in place with very bright prospects coming up in the wings in the coming years. It just so happens the style of game he plays fits ours to a tee. It just so happens that he lives 30 minutes from NYC and loves it here and that playing for the Rangers is an allure that few, if any, other clubs can offer.

That's why we put Parise in our lines for next year. Logically he makes sense. He's ideal for us, and we're ideal for him. The only bad part is that we're rivals with the Devils, but then again, so many have made the move before him, it won't be that surprising or hard of a transition if he really wanted to do it.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:10 PM
  #30
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Thinking about it, the more evident it became to me today. One way or another, Dubinsky needs to be traded this offseason.

4.2 mill for a 3rd liner is too much.

Next year, we also have Kreider, Thomas, Bourque, Fasth, Lindberg, and St. Croix, amongst others vying for roster spots.

We're also clearly geared up to make another big FA splash (Parise?)

Line combos for next year?

Parise-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Anisimov-Thomas
Rupp-Boyle-Prust

Staal-Girardi
McDonough-Sauer
Del Zotto-Erixon

Hank
Biron

That's filthy.

Don't we already have three or four of this thread? No lie--as soon as I saw the name attached the this thread, I KNEW it was going to be something to do with getting rid of Dubinsky. I literally said that out loud as I clicked the thread.

I'm at the point where I just laugh and don't bother trying to point out the obvious anymore. First it was "let's move Dubinsky to get Nash." Now it's "let's move Dubinsky because prospects are coming." That's saying NOTHING about the prospects you listed, two of which (Lindberg and Bourque) will probably never be NHL players, three of which (Fasth--due to his injury--, St. Croix and Thomas) will need AT LEAST another season before they sniff the NHL roster and only one of which (Kreider) is expected to compete for a roster spot.

Let's talk about that roster spot. Do you remember the last prospect we all thought was a sure bet to make the team? You should. It was less than a year ago when half the board wanted to trade Del Zotto because Erixon was "a top 4 defenseman already" and MDZ "didn't have a place in this lineup." How'd that work out again, I forget?

You've got a LOT of if's. IF Parise is signed, IF Kreider is ready, IF IF IF. The management of this team has been very clear that they make decisions about youth and depth when that youth forces the issue. Dubinsky won't be traded in the offseason to make room for Kreider. He doesn't need to be moved to create cap space for Parise (if Parise even wants to sign here). Sather and Torts will let everything play out in good time and, if Kreider does come in and set the world on fire, they will then deal Dubinsky at the deadline, when he's had a chance to rebound from this season and will have more value.

That's the reality of how this team is and has been run. Don't let that get in the way of your personal biases though. I understand. Dubinsky held out into training camp once, and somehow you feel justified in taking that personally.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:11 PM
  #31
Ke11y96
Registered User
 
Ke11y96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The writing Parise into every lineup thing is getting a little presumptuous.
So true yet, its so fun I'm gonna give it a try

Parise - Richards - Callahan

Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
*It maybe a bit eager asking Kreider to play 2nd line but if I'm not mistaken we currently have a rookie from college playing 2nd line with Richards and Cally and so I say yes Kreider is our 2nd line lw next year.

Hagelin - ????? - ?????

Rupp - Boyle - Prust

After hopefully signing Parise, I think this team has one job and thats to fix the 3rd line. Now they could very well put Anisimov at center Dubinsky on RW, or flip flop the two. Either way Kreider is my only forward prospect I really see making this team. I'm not 100% sold on JT Miller or Thomas making it although I wouldn't be surprised if one did.

Staal - Girardi
McD - ????
Del Zotto - Erixon

Lundqvist - Biron

I would easily see those three question mark spots being filled by Artie, Dubi, and Sauer and calling it a day. However I wouldn't be surprised if once cleared and Healthy Sauer + one of Dubi or Artie went in a package for a right handed offensive ppqb or at least one with a heavy shot on a good cap hit.

The last idea would be to not only sign Parise, but get Wideman in the off season too.

Ke11y96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:18 PM
  #32
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Don't we already have three or four of this thread? No lie--as soon as I saw the name attached the this thread, I KNEW it was going to be something to do with getting rid of Dubinsky. I literally said that out loud as I clicked the thread.

I'm at the point where I just laugh and don't bother trying to point out the obvious anymore. First it was "let's move Dubinsky to get Nash." Now it's "let's move Dubinsky because prospects are coming." That's saying NOTHING about the prospects you listed, two of which (Lindberg and Bourque) will probably never be NHL players, three of which (Fasth--due to his injury--, St. Croix and Thomas) will need AT LEAST another season before they sniff the NHL roster and only one of which (Kreider) is expected to compete for a roster spot.

Let's talk about that roster spot. Do you remember the last prospect we all thought was a sure bet to make the team? You should. It was less than a year ago when half the board wanted to trade Del Zotto because Erixon was "a top 4 defenseman already" and MDZ "didn't have a place in this lineup." How'd that work out again, I forget?

You've got a LOT of if's. IF Parise is signed, IF Kreider is ready, IF IF IF. The management of this team has been very clear that they make decisions about youth and depth when that youth forces the issue. Dubinsky won't be traded in the offseason to make room for Kreider. He doesn't need to be moved to create cap space for Parise (if Parise even wants to sign here). Sather and Torts will let everything play out in good time and, if Kreider does come in and set the world on fire, they will then deal Dubinsky at the deadline, when he's had a chance to rebound from this season and will have more value.

That's the reality of how this team is and has been run. Don't let that get in the way of your personal biases though. I understand. Dubinsky held out into training camp once, and somehow you feel justified in taking that personally.
What? I'm not taking Dubi's hold out personally at all. He's got to do what he has to do, while I was worried he might hold out, I understand thats a part of the business. I never have held that against him, nor stated anything of that nature on this thread or anywhere else, so I don't know why you're making that assumption.

And yes, there is a lot of talk about moving Dubinsky, mainly because its warranted. Maybe if you let go of YOUR personal biases you'd be able to see that over 4 million dollars for a player who's a 3rd liner, in a sport which has a cap which very well might go down next year, is too damn expensive.

The organization is being run through our youth. Dubi at one point was a prospect. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Dubinsky. I love him. Grit, heart, effort. What's not to love? But if I'm Sather i'm not resigning him at anywhere near that cap hit. And since it would appear that Dubinsky would leave to find a better contract from someone else, as he's likely to get after this contract is up (and we don't offer the same contract), I would rather trade him and get something back in return than lose him for nothing.

Regardless of that, if Dubinsky is preventing us from improving the team by adding some marquee free agent, that we specifically need, I would move him immediately.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:20 PM
  #33
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Thinking about it, the more evident it became to me today. One way or another, Dubinsky needs to be traded this offseason.

4.2 mill for a 3rd liner is too much.

Next year, we also have Kreider, Thomas, Bourque, Fasth, Lindberg, and St. Croix, amongst others vying for roster spots.

We're also clearly geared up to make another big FA splash (Parise?)

Line combos for next year?

Parise-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Anisimov-Thomas
Rupp-Boyle-Prust

Staal-Girardi
McDonough-Sauer
Del Zotto-Erixon

Hank
Biron

That's filthy.
Time to wake up and realize the following things:

1) There's no way in **** that Parise
Is signing with us. More than likely,
the Devils work out the financial
situation and he resigns there or he
will probably sign with the Wild or the Wings.

2) There is no way in **** that
Thomas will see our roster next
year if ever.

3) Duby is not going anywhere right
now; this year is a washout for him
offensively especially playing with
guys like Prust and Boyle. Duby
will get it figured by next season and he'll be fine going forward.

4) We all hope Kreider's tools(size,
speed, shot, etc) will translate to the
NHL but don't be surprised if it takes him some time before he's annointed a spot on the 2nd line.

It's okay to think big but more realistic to temper your expectations.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:27 PM
  #34
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Don't we already have three or four of this thread? No lie--as soon as I saw the name attached the this thread, I KNEW it was going to be something to do with getting rid of Dubinsky. I literally said that out loud as I clicked the thread.

I'm at the point where I just laugh and don't bother trying to point out the obvious anymore. First it was "let's move Dubinsky to get Nash." Now it's "let's move Dubinsky because prospects are coming." That's saying NOTHING about the prospects you listed, two of which (Lindberg and Bourque) will probably never be NHL players, three of which (Fasth--due to his injury--, St. Croix and Thomas) will need AT LEAST another season before they sniff the NHL roster and only one of which (Kreider) is expected to compete for a roster spot.

Let's talk about that roster spot. Do you remember the last prospect we all thought was a sure bet to make the team? You should. It was less than a year ago when half the board wanted to trade Del Zotto because Erixon was "a top 4 defenseman already" and MDZ "didn't have a place in this lineup." How'd that work out again, I forget?

You've got a LOT of if's. IF Parise is signed, IF Kreider is ready, IF IF IF. The management of this team has been very clear that they make decisions about youth and depth when that youth forces the issue. Dubinsky won't be traded in the offseason to make room for Kreider. He doesn't need to be moved to create cap space for Parise (if Parise even wants to sign here). Sather and Torts will let everything play out in good time and, if Kreider does come in and set the world on fire, they will then deal Dubinsky at the deadline, when he's had a chance to rebound from this season and will have more value.

That's the reality of how this team is and has been run. Don't let that get in the way of your personal biases though. I understand. Dubinsky held out into training camp once, and somehow you feel justified in taking that personally.
This is a terrific post that makes entirely too much sense for this forum. Nice job dude!

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #35
Sky Valley
Registered User
 
Sky Valley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Athens, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,901
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Sky Valley
I don't get what part of 40, 41, 44, and 54 point seasons makes Dubinsky inconsistent or implies that last year was any more of a fluke than this year.

He clearly has the ability to be a very important offensive contributor. He's having a lousy, lousy year in that department. Nothing about it makes me think it's permanent.

Moving him to upgrade to a guy like Nash makes sense. Moving him for the sake of moving him is stupid.

Sky Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #36
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
What? I'm not taking Dubi's hold out personally at all. He's got to do what he has to do, while I was worried he might hold out, I understand thats a part of the business. I never have held that against him, nor stated anything of that nature on this thread or anywhere else, so I don't know why you're making that assumption.

And yes, there is a lot of talk about moving Dubinsky, mainly because its warranted. Maybe if you let go of YOUR personal biases you'd be able to see that over 4 million dollars for a player who's a 3rd liner, in a sport which has a cap which very well might go down next year, is too damn expensive.

The organization is being run through our youth. Dubi at one point was a prospect. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Dubinsky. I love him. Grit, heart, effort. What's not to love? But if I'm Sather i'm not resigning him at anywhere near that cap hit. And since it would appear that Dubinsky would leave to find a better contract from someone else, as he's likely to get after this contract is up (and we don't offer the same contract), I would rather trade him and get something back in return than lose him for nothing.

Regardless of that, if Dubinsky is preventing us from improving the team by adding some marquee free agent, that we specifically need, I would move him immediately.

I make the assumption that it's all about the hold-out because it's the only thing that makes sense (and plenty of people in the other Dubinsky threads bring that holdout up ad nauseam). The "here's how I justify this view" arguments just never make any sense.

For example, like many, you revert to calling Dubinsky a 4 million dollar 3rd liner as if he's never going to get back to the player we've seen for the last 4 years. Use your head--if, as is very likely, this is just a down year and Dubinsky goes back to his 50+ point production next season, he's worth every penny. That's the point others have been trying to make with you. Fans on this board always want to throw away players because of a down year.

If people had a consistent reason for wanting to move a player, it'd at least make sense. The people who didn't like Avery--I got it. They thought he was too much of a distraction. The people who wanted Wolski moved--I got it. He didn't fit the system. The people who keep bleating about how we have to move Dubinsky--I don't get it. Their reasons keep changing at the drop of a hat. Even before this year you would see it. He'd get points, but people didn't like HOW he was getting his points. There is a visceral irrational hatred of the player rather than the player's game (see the guy who, in one of the Nash trade threads, wrote something like "great, now we're still stuck with Dubinsky"). It's absurd.

Moving Dubinsky in the offseason is bad asset management. We don't know how the prospects are going to produce at an NHL level. There is no financial need to move his contract (with Wolski, a couple million from Drury's buyout and Fedotenko all off the books, there is plenty of space to sign Parise if he wants to come here). Dubinsky's trade value will also be at an all-time low after his down season.

It makes far more sense to let next season develop. If all of the things you see happening actually happen (Kreider, Parise, etc), then Dubinsky (likely after returning back to his regular production) is a much more valuable chip to play at the 2013 trade deadline.

Frankly, if Parise is signed, I think the team gives some serious thought to moving Anisimov rather than Dubinsky. If Parise is signed and Kreider is what we hope he is, then that would give the team its LW's for the top 3 lines. Given the choice between AA and Dubi for 3rd line center, I think you have to go with Dubi if you can afford it (and at least in the short term, I think you can). Dubi is the better penalty killer and he can actually win faceoffs. When the 2013 RFA's need to be paid, you can always think about replacing Dubinsky with someone like Miller.

I don't have any problem with the idea of moving Dubinsky. I just don't think it makes any hockey sense to do it now just for the hell of it.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #37
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Time to wake up and realize the following things:

1) There's no way in **** that Parise
Is signing with us. More than likely,
the Devils work out the financial
situation and he resigns there or he
will probably sign with the Wild or the Wings.

2) There is no way in **** that
Thomas will see our roster next
year if ever.

3) Duby is not going anywhere right
now; this year is a washout for him
offensively especially playing with
guys like Prust and Boyle. Duby
will get it figured by next season and he'll be fine going forward.

4) We all hope Kreider's tools(size,
speed, shot, etc) will translate to the
NHL but don't be surprised if it takes him some time before he's annointed a spot on the 2nd line.

It's okay to think big but more realistic to temper your expectations.
1) That's quite an assumption, based on what? Personal opinion. He has just as much chance of remaining in NJ as he does coming to NY. Everyone kept saying that Richards would either stay in Dallas, return to TB for sentimental reasons, or take the big money in Toronto... well the logical choice was to come here the whole time and he came. The logical choice, factoring economic gain, personal success, and geographic movement, for Parise is to come to the Rangers.

2) Again, quite an assumption. Thomas is our most skilled forward prospect. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. He has the best hands and shot. He puts the puck in the back of the net. I would say he has as good a shot to make this roster as any other player trying for a spot. But even that, I recognize that his size is rather harmful for his chances to making the roster next year. I used him as an example of a prospect that is cheap and can add in production in place of Dubinsky.

3) Maybe he does. Actually, I'd figure he figures out all his problems by next year, as he tends to do a lot better on his contract year than he does in the year after he gets his contract. That still doesn't mean I want to pay over 4 million a year for a 3rd liner.

4) I probably have watched Kreider more than anyone else on this board. His speed is ridiculous. That's what sets him apart from every other player on the Rangers prospect pool and roster. He's not a pure sniper, but he fits the mold of this team. He has more skill than Hagelin, bigger body frame, better shot, equal stick handling, faster, and judging by Hagelin's success on the 2nd line right now it would appear that a spot on the 2nd line for Kreider isn't too far fetched. Why I think Kreider will be successful in the NHL is because he has a commodity few other players have, and even fewer players can prepare against. In addition, he wouldn't be looked at as the main source of offensive production on that line (as he is looked at on his line in BC now). He'd fill Anisimov's "grinding" position on that line, with give or take as much creativity that AA brings but more physicality and speed. The move also allows Anisimov to move to his natural position at center.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #38
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The writing Parise into every lineup thing is getting a little presumptuous.
I feel the same way. I'm going to stick with more modest assumptions and predict the following:

Anisimov - Stepan - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Gaustad - Hagelin
Rupp - Boyle - Prust


Girardi - McDonagh
Del Zotto - Staal
Erixon - Sauer/Aucoin

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:48 PM
  #39
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I make the assumption that it's all about the hold-out because it's the only thing that makes sense (and plenty of people in the other Dubinsky threads bring that holdout up ad nauseam). The "here's how I justify this view" arguments just never make any sense.

For example, like many, you revert to calling Dubinsky a 4 million dollar 3rd liner as if he's never going to get back to the player we've seen for the last 4 years. Use your head--if, as is very likely, this is just a down year and Dubinsky goes back to his 50+ point production next season, he's worth every penny. That's the point others have been trying to make with you. Fans on this board always want to throw away players because of a down year.

If people had a consistent reason for wanting to move a player, it'd at least make sense. The people who didn't like Avery--I got it. They thought he was too much of a distraction. The people who wanted Wolski moved--I got it. He didn't fit the system. The people who keep bleating about how we have to move Dubinsky--I don't get it. Their reasons keep changing at the drop of a hat. Even before this year you would see it. He'd get points, but people didn't like HOW he was getting his points. There is a visceral irrational hatred of the player rather than the player's game (see the guy who, in one of the Nash trade threads, wrote something like "great, now we're still stuck with Dubinsky"). It's absurd.

Moving Dubinsky in the offseason is bad asset management. We don't know how the prospects are going to produce at an NHL level. There is no financial need to move his contract (with Wolski, a couple million from Drury's buyout and Fedotenko all off the books, there is plenty of space to sign Parise if he wants to come here). Dubinsky's trade value will also be at an all-time low after his down season.

It makes far more sense to let next season develop. If all of the things you see happening actually happen (Kreider, Parise, etc), then Dubinsky (likely after returning back to his regular production) is a much more valuable chip to play at the 2013 trade deadline.

Frankly, if Parise is signed, I think the team gives some serious thought to moving Anisimov rather than Dubinsky. If Parise is signed and Kreider is what we hope he is, then that would give the team its LW's for the top 3 lines. Given the choice between AA and Dubi for 3rd line center, I think you have to go with Dubi if you can afford it (and at least in the short term, I think you can). Dubi is the better penalty killer and he can actually win faceoffs. When the 2013 RFA's need to be paid, you can always think about replacing Dubinsky with someone like Miller.

I don't have any problem with the idea of moving Dubinsky. I just don't think it makes any hockey sense to do it now just for the hell of it.
Who's doing it for the hell of it? I'm suggesting it so that we get cap relief and a return at the same time.

Anisimov isn't going to get a 4 + mill contract in his next extension.

For a player making that amount of money you look for slightly more consistency than what he's had in years past and especially this year.

You criticize me for making IF assumptions... what's to say he comes back to be the player that you hope? How about this... Dubinsky, in each of the past 4 seasons, has played as a part of the 1st line. He has received more minutes, and been looked to by his team mates to take more shots and be a bigger source of offensive production... simply because the Rangers had little-no offensive talent during those years. Now with the success of our top 2 lines, what's to say that Dubinsky cracks either of the 2 to get those minutes and that type of role again? Let's say we don't sign Parise, let's say that Kreider isn't what we think he's gonna be, why should Torts take Hagelin off of that 2nd line the way he's playing? What's is to say that Dubinsky will ever play on those top 2 lines (on a consistent basis) ever again? Isn't that presumptuous on your part as well? If he remains on the 3rd line, which he probably will because of his inconsistent play, his role won't be as a goal scorer, it will be as the heart and grinding soul of this team, which we can find for a lot cheaper than 4.2 million dollars on the cap a year.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:52 PM
  #40
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
As far as the young guys go, you would have to think that Kreider and Erixon are gonna be good to go with the big club next year. I would let Feds walk, resign Prust and Biron... and of course the big one

Parise to a multi-year deal

Your nightly Rangers lineup

Anisimov - Stepan - Gaborik

Why this works: Another year of maturity for Stepan and Anisimov can only help this line continue to put up big points. Gaborik will be Gaborik if he's healthy, and if Stepan takes that next step forward.. watch out.

Parise - Richards - Callahan

Why this works: why doesn't it work?

Kreider - Dubinsky - Hagelin

Why this works: This one is a little more interesting to me. The key is moving Dubi back to center. Despite his struggles this year, I've found that Dubi seems to be quite adept at using his speed to gain the zone on the rush ala Scott Gomez in his heyday. That might sound downright frightening... but if you put speedsters Kreider and Hagelin around him, I think they could really make things happen. Ya gotta think the speed on this line would give teams WAY more fits than your average 3rd line. EDIT: Not to mention that Dubi seems to be becoming more of a distributor. Hey... more power to ya Dubi, play some center between a couple goal scorers.

Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Why this works: this is basically by default so it better work. But seriously, Boyle and Prust play fine with each other and they should be 4th liners anyway.

As far as the defensive pairings go... I would guess you might have to have a couple of guys learn to play the other side, but if you want 3 pairs of an offensively gifted, puck-moving defenseman paired with a defensive stalwart, you go with Girardi-McDonagh, Staal-Del Zotto, Sauer-Erixon.

Need I analyze the goaltending situation?

I think the addition of Kreider, Parise, and Erixon into this lineup could make the 2012-13 Rangers downright dominating.

I like your analysis, reasoning and rationale for the line combinations you came up with for next year. Duby would definitely be better served being moved back to center.
All the other line combinations make a lot of sense with one very big exception:
We won't have Parise to plug into the 1st line as I really don't see him signing here.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:52 PM
  #41
Calad
Section 422
 
Calad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Why do you people insist on including Parise in next years lineup?

HE'S NOT COMING HERE!!!!
This

Calad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:53 PM
  #42
Emptyvoid
Registered User
 
Emptyvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,368
vCash: 500
B. Ryan-Stepan-Gaborik
Kreider/Hags-Richards-Callahan
Kreider/Hags-Anisimov-xxx
Rupp-Boyle-Prust

Just need someone to slot into that 3rd RW spot.

I feel that's a very formidable forward group.

Emptyvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:56 PM
  #43
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,433
vCash: 500
the non Nash deal is likely the best thing for the future of this team
Erixon can be a top 4 Dman, Miller can be another Hagelin, Thomas has a shot to score goals, Dubi can bounce back

have to like the make up of the team

2 FA pickups- Gabby, Richards
Home growns- Callahan, Dubinsky, Anismov'
College kids- Stepan, Hagelin and soon to be Kreider and Miller

that's a awesome 9 F
then add Boyle, love him or hate him he is a good checking C.......Prust is gritty and has heart. Finish that off with leadership of Rupp

Potentially
Kreider, Stepan, Gaborik
Hagelin, Richards, Callahan
Dubinsky,Anisimov, Miller
Rupp, Boyle, Prust

fantastic F group.
Not to mention best goalie in the world in Hank. Biron is a solid vet backup, great team guy

D core is awesome
McDonaugh, Girardi, Staal, Del Zotto, Sauer, Stralman with Erixon and McIlrath on the way

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 10:59 PM
  #44
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
the non Nash deal is likely the best thing for the future of this team
Erixon can be a top 4 Dman, Miller can be another Hagelin, Thomas has a shot to score goals, Dubi can bounce back

have to like the make up of the team

2 FA pickups- Gabby, Richards
Home growns- Callahan, Dubinsky, Anismov'
College kids- Stepan, Hagelin and soon to be Kreider and Miller

that's a awesome 9 F
then add Boyle, love him or hate him he is a good checking C.......Prust is gritty and has heart. Finish that off with leadership of Rupp

Potentially
Kreider, Stepan, Gaborik
Hagelin, Richards, Callahan
Dubinsky,Anisimov, Miller
Rupp, Boyle, Prust

fantastic F group.
Not to mention best goalie in the world in Hank. Biron is a solid vet backup, great team guy

D core is awesome
McDonaugh, Girardi, Staal, Del Zotto, Sauer, Stralman with Erixon and McIlrath on the way
To be honest, that seems like the likeliest scenario.

We'll just have a lot of cap space left over, and that seems pretty uncommon for Glen, especially when we can add FA's that fill a need and fill the identity of the group we have.

But I agree, that seems like a very likely group heading into next year.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:00 PM
  #45
Aileen C*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 101
vCash: 500
Stepan - St. Croix- Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - Callahan
Hagelin- Anisimov - Dubinsky
Avery - Boyle - Prust

Staal - McDonagh
Del Zotto - Erixon
Girardi - Sauer

Aileen C* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:09 PM
  #46
Ke11y96
Registered User
 
Ke11y96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 468
vCash: 500
cost would be high but RFA T.J Oshie would be a good pick up to solidify the rw on 3rd line, or even former 28 goal man Stewart who could be had for cheap I would think from St. Louis Blues.

Parise - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
Hagelin - Anisimov/Dubinsky - Oshie/Stewart
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Oshie or Stewart for Dubinsky/Anisimov +

Ke11y96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:11 PM
  #47
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
1) That's quite an assumption, based on what? Personal opinion. He has just as much chance of remaining in NJ as he does coming to NY. Everyone kept saying that Richards would either stay in Dallas, return to TB for sentimental reasons, or take the big money in Toronto... well the logical choice was to come here the whole time and he came. The logical choice, factoring economic gain, personal success, and geographic movement, for Parise is to come to the Rangers.

2) Again, quite an assumption. Thomas is our most skilled forward prospect. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. He has the best hands and shot. He puts the puck in the back of the net. I would say he has as good a shot to make this roster as any other player trying for a spot. But even that, I recognize that his size is rather harmful for his chances to making the roster next year. I used him as an example of a prospect that is cheap and can add in production in place of Dubinsky.

3) Maybe he does. Actually, I'd figure he figures out all his problems by next year, as he tends to do a lot better on his contract year than he does in the year after he gets his contract. That still doesn't mean I want to pay over 4 million a year for a 3rd liner.

4) I probably have watched Kreider more than anyone else on this board. His speed is ridiculous. That's what sets him apart from every other player on the Rangers prospect pool and roster. He's not a pure sniper, but he fits the mold of this team. He has more skill than Hagelin, bigger body frame, better shot, equal stick handling, faster, and judging by Hagelin's success on the 2nd line right now it would appear that a spot on the 2nd line for Kreider isn't too far fetched. Why I think Kreider will be successful in the NHL is because he has a commodity few other players have, and even fewer players can prepare against. In addition, he wouldn't be looked at as the main source of offensive production on that line (as he is looked at on his line in BC now). He'd fill Anisimov's "grinding" position on that line, with give or take as much creativity that AA brings but more physicality and speed. The move also allows Anisimov to move to his natural position at center.
Look, I hope I'm wrong about Parise but I just have a gut feeling that the Devils figure out a way to resign him. As far as Thomas goes, I know about his skillset but I just don't get the sense that his game will translate well to the NHL.
Duby? I believe he'll do whatever is necessary to improve his game and regain his status as an integral part of the core going forward.
Kreider? It sounds like you might be a better judge at this point of his game and how he'll fit in once he's signed here.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #48
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,994
vCash: 500
Tough to make this call.

I'd say Sign Parise if at all possible and go with...

Parise - Richards - Callahan
Anisimov - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Dubinsky - Hagelin
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Erixon
MDZ - Sauer

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #49
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
As far as the young guys go, you would have to think that Kreider and Erixon are gonna be good to go with the big club next year. I would let Feds walk, resign Prust and Biron... and of course the big one

Parise to a multi-year deal

Your nightly Rangers lineup

Anisimov - Stepan - Gaborik

Why this works: Another year of maturity for Stepan and Anisimov can only help this line continue to put up big points. Gaborik will be Gaborik if he's healthy, and if Stepan takes that next step forward.. watch out.

Parise - Richards - Callahan

Why this works: why doesn't it work?

Kreider - Dubinsky - Hagelin

Why this works: This one is a little more interesting to me. The key is moving Dubi back to center. Despite his struggles this year, I've found that Dubi seems to be quite adept at using his speed to gain the zone on the rush ala Scott Gomez in his heyday. That might sound downright frightening... but if you put speedsters Kreider and Hagelin around him, I think they could really make things happen. Ya gotta think the speed on this line would give teams WAY more fits than your average 3rd line. EDIT: Not to mention that Dubi seems to be becoming more of a distributor. Hey... more power to ya Dubi, play some center between a couple goal scorers.

Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Why this works: this is basically by default so it better work. But seriously, Boyle and Prust play fine with each other and they should be 4th liners anyway.

As far as the defensive pairings go... I would guess you might have to have a couple of guys learn to play the other side, but if you want 3 pairs of an offensively gifted, puck-moving defenseman paired with a defensive stalwart, you go with Girardi-McDonagh, Staal-Del Zotto, Sauer-Erixon.

Need I analyze the goaltending situation?

I think the addition of Kreider, Parise, and Erixon into this lineup could make the 2012-13 Rangers downright dominating.
beat me to it...

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2012, 11:51 PM
  #50
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Who's doing it for the hell of it? I'm suggesting it so that we get cap relief and a return at the same time.
Do we NEED to get cap relief this offseason to sign someone like Parise? The answer is no, we don't. Thus, wanting to trade Dubinsky THIS OFFSEASON is doing it for the hell of it (because it certainly wouldn't be an intelligent use of an asset).

Quote:
Anisimov isn't going to get a 4 + mill contract in his next extension.
And will that enable him to win a faceoff? Anisimov works on the wing. Anisimov works as a center with Dubinsky on his wing (to take the faceoffs for him). Anisimov at center with no Dubinsky? He's a straight up liability. If the only spot left is 3rd line center and you've got to choose between Ani and Dubi to play that role for a year until Miller is ready, it's pretty obvious who you go with (the cap hit won't be a problem until the summer of 2013, and that's only IF you sign Parise).

Quote:
For a player making that amount of money you look for slightly more consistency than what he's had in years past and especially this year.
I swear to God 95% of the people on this forum have never actually played a competitive sport. Plenty of players (hell, I'd say more than half) have down seasons. This goes back to the Gaborik example people brought up earlier in the thread. Was he getting almost 8 million last season to be outscored by Brandon Dubinsky? Nope. Did we move him in the offseason? Of course not. It was just a down year.

Which brings us to...

Quote:
You criticize me for making IF assumptions... what's to say he comes back to be the player that you hope? How about this... Dubinsky, in each of the past 4 seasons, has played as a part of the 1st line. He has received more minutes, and been looked to by his team mates to take more shots and be a bigger source of offensive production... simply because the Rangers had little-no offensive talent during those years. Now with the success of our top 2 lines, what's to say that Dubinsky cracks either of the 2 to get those minutes and that type of role again? Let's say we don't sign Parise, let's say that Kreider isn't what we think he's gonna be, why should Torts take Hagelin off of that 2nd line the way he's playing? What's is to say that Dubinsky will ever play on those top 2 lines (on a consistent basis) ever again? Isn't that presumptuous on your part as well? If he remains on the 3rd line, which he probably will because of his inconsistent play, his role won't be as a goal scorer, it will be as the heart and grinding soul of this team, which we can find for a lot cheaper than 4.2 million dollars on the cap a year.
Yes, I criticize you for your If's because they are all based on hope. My "if" is based on the last 4 years of watching a player. Why do I think Dubinsky will be back to normal next season? Because I've watched literally hundreds of players have a down year and then bounce back. This isn't a situation like Cheechoo or Prucha, where their numbers were inflated by playing in that goofy 2005/06 season where everyone had more space due to the new rules. Dubi's shooting percentage is a fraction of what it usually is. He's in a slump, and he'll probably need an offseason to get the problem out of his head.

And yes, he scored points last year because he got minutes last year. Guess what? Callahan is on pace for about the same number of points as Dubi put up last year, and he's getting a minute + more ice time than Dubi did last year. Do you worry about Callahan getting demoted? Of course not. Non-slump-year Dubinsky easily bumps Hagelin to the 3rd line, and that's nothing against Hagelin.

Either way--as I said, I'm not opposed to moving Dubinsky. I have yet to hear any reason why it makes sense to do it this offseason at all. If you want to have a successful team long term, you need to make the most of your assets. Dubinsky, if he is to be moved, would best be moved either NEXT offseason or at the trade deadline. I still think he comes right back next year and shows why it would be pure idiocy to move him at all--unless of course, you're still pissed off at his holdout.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.