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Less and less talent on this team, anybody else worried?

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Old
02-28-2012, 12:44 PM
  #126
Talks to Goalposts
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Bourque has more points than Cammy over the last two years and a half, but has a lower ppg ratio (0.62 vs 0.68). Cammy is on pace for his first season with more than 67 games since 2009. Good for him!

I personally do not mind trading 0.06 ppg for 3M$ cap space and a 2nd round in the 2013 draft. Considering that the Habs were terrible with Cammalleri, I can't say that his presence was crucial to the team's success.

Unused cap space provides no immediate value, but it allows to buy UFAs in the summer. That unused cap space might land Parise. If it doesn't, it might land next year's big UFA, or it can be filled via trades. ''Immediate value'' is overrated. I'd rather have unused cap space than the immediate value provided by Gionta or Kaberle...
You also have to factor in the elevator shaft Bourque's level of play fell through over the past year. Shot rate, scoring chance rate and scoring chance differentials have all plummeted for him, both in Montreal and Calgary not to mention the mundane matter of points (where he's far under .5 per game)

Its doubtful if Bouque remains a top-six winger.

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02-28-2012, 12:58 PM
  #127
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Here's the thing though, what has changed from the team that took the bruins to game 7 last year and the team we have this year?

What we lost: Gionta and Markov (Wisniewski) out, Cammalleri traded, a coach with a semblance of a system and a brain (pp sucks, no transition, etc), Subban and Plekanec having a poor year (can be attributed to coaching issue), Hamrlik and Spacek

What we gained this year:
Cole, emergence of Desharnais, Emelin and Pacioretty, Bourque (meh), Kaberle (meh meh), hopefully a franchise pick, a year of development for price and subban

What can bring us back to 2011 success:
A new coach with a system, Healthy Markov and Gionta, bounce back years from Plekanec and Subban, enhanced production from eller and leblanc to makeup for loss of kostitsyn

What can put us into a top 4 team in the conference in addition to the above:
Ryan Suter, enhanced progress of Cole line, our first round pick having a calder type year(Nail or Grigs)...


i honestly think we are not TOO far off. i just don't trust the management to make the right decisions, i can see us hiring a terrible coach, keeping gauthier and keeping gomez causing another abysmal year.
What killed this team this season was our D. Gill should have been unloaded along with Hamrlik during the offseason. Same for Spacek.

Weber and Diaz should be stars in the AHL this year. Campoli should never have been signed.

Gauthier dropped the ball by keeping Gill and Spacek. He should have signed/traded for 2 D with size (kept Wiz--look at what we paid for Campoli and Kaberle this season....equal to what we would have paid Wiz). O'Brien was one player who would have helped tremendously.

Instead, we have the softest D in the League and it shows with the number of games where we had a lead only to blow it in the end with our pathetic patchwork D.

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02-28-2012, 01:00 PM
  #128
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What killed this team this season was our D. Gill should have been unloaded along with Hamrlik during the offseason. Same for Spacek.

Weber and Diaz should be stars in the AHL this year. Campoli should never have been signed.

Gauthier dropped the ball by keeping Gill and Spacek. He should have signed/traded for 2 D with size (kept Wiz--look at what we paid for Campoli and Kaberle this season....equal to what we would have paid Wiz). O'Brien was one player who would have helped tremendously.

Instead, we have the softest D in the League and it shows with the number of games where we had a lead only to blow it in the end with our pathetic patchwork D.
Ideal defense for the required two season tank imo.

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02-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
You also have to factor in the elevator shaft Bourque's level of play fell through over the past year. Shot rate, scoring chance rate and scoring chance differentials have all plummeted for him, both in Montreal and Calgary not to mention the mundane matter of points (where he's far under .5 per game)

Its doubtful if Bouque remains a top-six winger.
Even if Bourque can't stay in Montreal's top 6 at $3 mill he's acceptable on a 3rd line (Leblanc-Eller-Bourque? not bad).

Between the Cammelleri/Bourque/Kostitsyn deals, and future Gomez dump, that's 13 million capspace opened up (on a team that didn't hit cap at beginning of this season). Even with Subban & Price getting 2-3 million $ raises each, there should be enough to make a run at a big UFA forward for the top 6 (Semin, Parise?).

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02-28-2012, 02:30 PM
  #130
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Even if Bourque can't stay in Montreal's top 6 at $3 mill he's acceptable on a 3rd line (Leblanc-Eller-Bourque? not bad).

Between the Cammelleri/Bourque/Kostitsyn deals, and future Gomez dump, that's 13 million capspace opened up (on a team that didn't hit cap at beginning of this season). Even with Subban & Price getting 2-3 million $ raises each, there should be enough to make a run at a big UFA forward for the top 6 (Semin, Parise?).
Semin: do not want.

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02-28-2012, 02:35 PM
  #131
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Eller, Max Pac, DD ,Subban, Parise

Gallagher, Avtsin, Kristo...

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02-28-2012, 02:38 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Semin: do not want.
I'll gladly take Semin. Time to bring some damn actual skill in.
An absolute off year for him is the same production as Cole this year.

I'll also accept the fact he will take nights off. People seem to think you're better off without skill but with hard workers. You need some guys that can actually deke or challenge defenders going into the zone, not always trying to outskate them. So, if we get a guy that can create some magic on the ice and put on a show from once in a while, I'll be very happy.
We have enough guys now that can ''skate hard to forecheck and crash the net''.


I really don't think you realize just how good Semin is if you're saying ''do not want''.


Last edited by Kriss E: 02-28-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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02-28-2012, 02:42 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Semin: do not want.
Dude is indeed overrated and inconsistent. He's a crappier and softer version of Kovalev who will disappear when he feels like it. Besides, without OV's emotional support, who knows how emo he will be, especially during the grueling playoffs.

We should go after Parise hard. Defensive awareness is not an issue with him since Jersey emphasizes good defense from their forwards.

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02-28-2012, 02:43 PM
  #134
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I'll gladly take Semin. Time to bring some damn actual skill in.
An absolute off year for him is the same production as Cole this year.

I'll also accept the fact he will take nights off. People seem to think you're better off without skill but with hard workers. You need some guys that can actually deke or challenge defenders going into the zone, not always trying to outskate them.
depend on the price tag

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02-28-2012, 02:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'll gladly take Semin. Time to bring some damn actual skill in.
An absolute off year for him is the same production as Cole this year.

I'll also accept the fact he will take nights off. People seem to think you're better off without skill but with hard workers. You need some guys that can actually deke or challenge defenders going into the zone, not always trying to outskate them.

Is he good at dumping the puck?
Can he fight?


--------------------

Edit:

He sure can play the bongo!


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02-28-2012, 02:48 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Semin: do not want.
I know...I'm not a Semin fanboy either or fans of capricious Russians in general, but the Habs really need the offensive talent and I don't expect Parise to make the open market. I would definitely not want to sign Semin to a 4+ year contract, way too risky, but If the Habs have the caproom anyways, offer him a generous short term contract. 1-2 years, 7.5-8 millon per, as a trial run to see how well he fits. 35-40 goals from him could be very nice, what we expected from Cammelleri but never got.

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02-28-2012, 02:53 PM
  #137
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Ya, who really needs this anyways..


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02-28-2012, 02:55 PM
  #138
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Sometimes I look at the official roster page and just sit and laugh at how brutal it is.

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02-28-2012, 03:00 PM
  #139
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depend on the price tag
Price tag really doesn't matter as much anymore. Obviously, I'm not talking about 10 year deal here. That's ridiculous, but I don't mind giving him extra cash on a shorter term.
Looking at the poor UFA market, and all the free space we could have, we might have trouble spending up to the cap even if we wanted too.

If you paid attention to free agency, you also probably noticed that every year, it's a weaker market. Less and less players available because of all the long term deals they end up signing. So, if you have a chance to sign a guy like Semin, you don't pass it up.

Playing in Ovechkin's shadow might not have been the best either. Malkin exploded every time Crosby got injured. Maybe Semin needs the same.
Give him a good centerman, and put a rugged winger on the other side, and it's all good.

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02-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #140
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Dude is indeed overrated and inconsistent. He's a crappier and softer version of Kovalev who will disappear when he feels like it. Besides, without OV's emotional support, who knows how emo he will be, especially during the grueling playoffs.

We should go after Parise hard. Defensive awareness is not an issue with him since Jersey emphasizes good defense from their forwards.
Semin has 30pts in 37 playoff games. He's played well in the POs outside one year, the one versus us, and if I recall correctly I think he hit about 13443209239 posts in that series.

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02-28-2012, 03:05 PM
  #141
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Semin has 30pts in 37 playoff games. He's played well in the POs outside one year, the one versus us, and if I recall correctly I think he hit about 13443209239 posts in that series.
He had like 5 shots a game in that series and was the Caps best player iirc. Maybe except Brooks Laich.

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02-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #142
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Same people saying no talent want toughness. You people know toughness is usually in a less skilled player, right ? Those skilled tough players don't come easy.

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02-28-2012, 03:13 PM
  #143
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I'd gladly take a "risk" on Semin, and I'm not a fan at all.

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02-28-2012, 03:18 PM
  #144
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Not worried yet. Talk to me in October. With AK and Cammy gone, the team has $6 million to allocate to a big scorer. Bourque effectively replaces AK which is a minor upgrade/downgrade.

Another question is Markov. Does he come back? Does he retire, and if so how are those funds used.

Of course, the top 5 is another question...

So...like I said...let's wait until October

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02-28-2012, 03:30 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'll gladly take Semin. Time to bring some damn actual skill in.
An absolute off year for him is the same production as Cole this year.

I'll also accept the fact he will take nights off. People seem to think you're better off without skill but with hard workers. You need some guys that can actually deke or challenge defenders going into the zone, not always trying to outskate them. So, if we get a guy that can create some magic on the ice and put on a show from once in a while, I'll be very happy.
We have enough guys now that can ''skate hard to forecheck and crash the net''.


I really don't think you realize just how good Semin is if you're saying ''do not want''.
personally I really don't want the Habs to go anywhere near Semin. They really need to stop bringing in heartless soft creampuffs that play when they feel like it. I'd rather see the team do a full rebuild and try and get Nate then add players like Semin so we can suck a little less.

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02-28-2012, 03:33 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Semin has 30pts in 37 playoff games. He's played well in the POs outside one year, the one versus us, and if I recall correctly I think he hit about 13443209239 posts in that series.
He did very well against the Rangers twice and the 2007-2008 Flyers, but not as well against Tampa and Pittsburgh, both of which were the "second teams" the Capitals faced. And we kept him quiet enough even when the Caps had three blowout wins in a row. You can count on points in the first round, but his reliability becomes suspect as you go deeper into the playoffs.

Also, the we do not have a comparable Big Three(OV, Backstrom, Green) here to draw an opponent's top defensive dmen and forwards away from Semin, hence his production might be less than expected.

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02-28-2012, 03:41 PM
  #147
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personally I really don't want the Habs to go anywhere near Semin. They really need to stop bringing in heartless soft creampuffs that play when they feel like it. I'd rather see the team do a full rebuild and try and get Nate then add players like Semin so we can suck a little less.
Yes well count me out of the "I want to finish dead last again" group for next year.

Suck a little less with Semin? You don't know Semin all tha well if you think that is all he brings.

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02-28-2012, 03:42 PM
  #148
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Same people saying no talent want toughness. You people know toughness is usually in a less skilled player, right ? Those skilled tough players don't come easy.
Yeah, but since a lottery pick is anathema and 8th place must be reached every season...other teams like Chicago get skilled players who are not heartless flakes like Semin.

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02-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #149
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Also, the we do not have a comparable Big Three(OV, Backstrom, Green) here to draw an opponent's top defensive dmen and forwards away from Semin, hence his production might be less than expected.
I wont get into semantics, whether he produced more in the first rounds or nit, point is he has a nice PO production.

As for us not having a top 3,it doesnt matter. If he is the one that will attract the attention, then it will open up room for the 2nd line. That is why it is called a team game. What really matters is if the team wins, and Semin would definitely give us a better chance at winning.

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02-28-2012, 03:55 PM
  #150
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Yes well count me out of the "I want to finish dead last again" group for next year.

Suck a little less with Semin? You don't know Semin all tha well if you think that is all he brings.
Great, so we finish what 10th next year instead? Semin will help improve the offense especially the PP but this team can't hold leads, if we don't fix the D we likley won't be back in the playoffs so who cares if we are 10th in the east or last.

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