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Caps should play more games at First Mariner (Baltimore)

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Old
02-28-2012, 11:54 AM
  #51
Duke33
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Originally Posted by TheFountainhead View Post
@Molseed: Isn't that more of a problem then with the product and not necessarily the fanbase? I mean, aside from the NFL, are there really a bunch of cities/fanbases that constantly sellout strings of professional sporting events in the face of consistent failure and underachievement? There are a few that I can think of (Cubs fans, Knicks fans etc), but for the most part, fanbases come out in droves to support winning, functional teams.

Even in cities with "great" fanbases, Philadelphia, New York etc., numbers at the gate have dwindle in a number of sports with repeated failures. We've seen the Phillies for protracted amounts of time struggle to draw, the Sixers last year didn't boast strong ticket sales, the Mets had legions of empty seats last season etc. If the Caps produce a reasonably consistent team (consistently competitive), I think they'll be fine at the gate now that they've captured a legitimate share of the public's eye (Ovechkin obviously helped as a gate attraction), and should they produce a legitimate contender, I think we've seen that they can sell out games consistently in this city under those circumstances.
It's both. Look, the fan bases here in this area are notoriously fair weather. The Caps are the prime example. Team adds a superstar and starts winning=suddenly the arena is packed with fans actually cheering for the local team, and not with invading hordes like the Nats and Redskins are exposed to.

Reasonably consistent and/or competitive are not things I'd call the Caps right now. Sure, they are mere points from a playoff spot. But is anyone really ready to say they're a serious Cup contender, esp. without #19? Even with him, and Green, etc...this team has underachieved to the point where home playoff crowds booed. I was a partial ST holder for 3 yrs and then a full season for 4. I'm still on the mailing lists and towards the end of last year and into this year, I'm being bombed more than ever with special deals, tickets being available, etc. That didn't happen the last 2-3 years. Multiple games I couldn't go to last year the seats went unsold, even when I put them up for the lowest possible price. When in the past I could make a profit even for the weakest opponents.

The fan base is ticked off, and it's showing. If the team keeps floundering, and it's biggest asset (#8) continues playing like a run of the mill second liner and not the superstar he should be, the fans will drift away. It's already starting to happen. I've been to a couple games this year where they proudly announce another sellout but there are significant chunks of empty seats in the corners/ends of the upper level.

Look at the Redskins. Football used to be huge here, but tv ratings are down, the years-long waitlist for season tickets is gone, and huge and embarrassing numbers of opposing fans are invading Fedex, particularly this past year. Getting tix that angry ST holders would rather sell than use.

The Nats even with Strasburg coming back were 20th in the league in attendance, in an area where they should be top-10. Most of their few sellouts are when legions of slime from Philadelphia came down and took over the park. The Wizards struggle to draw well unless a big name opponent comes in and their fans fill up the house. But any of those teams start winning and it all changes....

The Caps are ok for now, but the rumblings have already started. It will be interesting to see what happens this offseason with the renewals, etc. especially if they miss the playoffs or go out early again.

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02-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Yea I'm sure the perennial super bowl contender Ravens fans, and their beautiful downtown stadium are really jealous of the perennial pathetic Redskins, and their horrible stadium in Landover, MD.

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02-28-2012, 12:34 PM
  #53
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You do realize that Baltimore has as many NFL titles as Wasington, right?

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02-28-2012, 12:36 PM
  #54
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Congratulations, OP, you have possibly conceived the worst idea in history based on your supporting "arguments."

The '86 experiment on Reactor 4 at Chernobyl? Bad idea. Bay of Pigs? Bad idea. Napoleon's invasion of Russia? Bad idea.

Your idea? Absolutely terrible. Your reasoning? Execrable, on a good day.

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02-28-2012, 05:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You do realize that Baltimore has as many NFL titles as Wasington, right?
Gtfo with that garbage. The Ravens franchise is a sham; the city cowardly stole a franchise the same way you guys lost one. Baltimore football envy is embarrassing and pathetic. Redskins fans couldn't give two ***** about the Ravens while your fan base has an unhealthy hatred towards anything Dan Snyder and the Redskins. It's like a little brother always trying to prove he's better than the older brother. The Ravens have exactly one title, and it was the worst Super Bowl ever played. Congrats.

I'll be the first to admit that M&T Bank kicks ass. The game day experience is great and your fan base is passionate. FedEx Field is a **** hole with terrible parking in an awful location and overall just not an enjoyable experience. I'll forgive Snyder for Cerrato if he can pull off a stadium in D.C. near a Metro station.

Also, 1st Mariner is a joke; it's only good for concerts and wrestling venues.

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02-28-2012, 08:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You do realize that Baltimore has as many NFL titles as Wasington, right?
The Baltimore Ravens have 1 Superbowl.

In the last decade the Ravens have been better than the Redskins, but in the annals of History (if the Football world were to end now) the only things you'd remember with the Ravens are one Amazing year and the Art Moddel incident. As said earlier, the whole "Battle of the Beltway" is ridiculous. All it is is "little brother" pissed that the currently terrible are still the more beloved franchise.

And Fed Ex is not amazing, but it is not as bad as people make it out to be. RFK was just as ****** but a winning team can fix that. If the Skins get back to winning, people will only have to ***** about the parking at Fed Ex.

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02-28-2012, 09:59 PM
  #57
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No, FedEx is objectively terrible... but so is the entire city of Baltimore (this from a former resident), so I don't feel so bad about the fact that the Ravens have a nicer football stadium.

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02-28-2012, 10:00 PM
  #58
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I would be absolutely thrilled! However our absolute max capacity with standing room is just shy of 11,000. Might be just the excuse to get Hershey to expand seating above the home goal; lots of wasted space. Considering all Saturday games are basically sold out through the end of the season (again), I can't believe they leave all that revenue on the table.
They jammed 11,200ish when playing the Moose in the Finals.

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02-28-2012, 10:20 PM
  #59
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You do have to admit, DC does suck.
I agree, but I don't expect everyone to. DC is just too "yuppie" for me. Too much white collar BS and high-class wannabes. While Baltimore tends to be a ****hole, I do prefer the more honest nature of the city. Philadelphia, Richmond, and Brooklyn are closest to my personal sweet spots.

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My greatest DC pet peeve? The Black Cat...elitist tools (and I've played there).
Mediocre venue with the worst clientele. Never dealt with the management, personally. I can't stand most of the DC music scene in general, though. Too much hipsterpunx for my liking.

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02-28-2012, 10:32 PM
  #60
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Gtfo with that garbage. The Ravens franchise is a sham; the city cowardly stole a franchise the same way you guys lost one. Baltimore football envy is embarrassing and pathetic. Redskins fans couldn't give two ***** about the Ravens while your fan base has an unhealthy hatred towards anything Dan Snyder and the Redskins. It's like a little brother always trying to prove he's better than the older brother. The Ravens have exactly one title, and it was the worst Super Bowl ever played. Congrats.

I'll be the first to admit that M&T Bank kicks ass. The game day experience is great and your fan base is passionate. FedEx Field is a **** hole with terrible parking in an awful location and overall just not an enjoyable experience. I'll forgive Snyder for Cerrato if he can pull off a stadium in D.C. near a Metro station.

Also, 1st Mariner is a joke; it's only good for concerts and wrestling venues.
I don't know why you think there's an unhealthy hatred towards Redskins fans from Ravens' fans. I haven't seen much of it. But there's certainly one going the other way, as shown by your tool bag post.

I also have no idea why you think there's football envy. What on Earth do Ravens' fans have to be envious of Redskins' fans about?

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02-28-2012, 10:34 PM
  #61
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The Baltimore Ravens have 1 Superbowl.

In the last decade the Ravens have been better than the Redskins, but in the annals of History (if the Football world were to end now) the only things you'd remember with the Ravens are one Amazing year and the Art Moddel incident. As said earlier, the whole "Battle of the Beltway" is ridiculous. All it is is "little brother" pissed that the currently terrible are still the more beloved franchise.

And Fed Ex is not amazing, but it is not as bad as people make it out to be. RFK was just as ****** but a winning team can fix that. If the Skins get back to winning, people will only have to ***** about the parking at Fed Ex.
Again, with this 'little brother' jealousy angle. It doesn't exist. There's no jealousy.

What is there to be jealous about?

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02-28-2012, 10:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Again, with this 'little brother' jealousy angle. It doesn't exist. There's no jealousy.

What is there to be jealous about?
Oh Bull. Its not jealous, its wanting acknowledgement. They whop and holler over preseason games because they need to be the "team" in DC when they just aren't.

Washington will -always- be a Football town and if the Skins ever get going again, it'll be seen.

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02-28-2012, 10:49 PM
  #63
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Oh Bull. Its not jealous, its wanting acknowledgement. They whop and holler over preseason games because they need to be the "team" in DC when they just aren't.

Washington will -always- be a Football town and if the Skins ever get going again, it'll be seen.
Who's wanting acknowledgement? Where are you getting this?

Again, I assure you that very few Ravens fans care whether or not they're the "team" in DC.

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02-28-2012, 10:53 PM
  #64
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Oh Bull. Its not jealous, its wanting acknowledgement. They whop and holler over preseason games because they need to be the "team" in DC when they just aren't.

Washington will -always- be a Football town and if the Skins ever get going again, it'll be seen.
I'm a Redskins fan, and while it's not personally true of me, a lot of Redskins fans around me get just as ridiculously worked up about preseason games with the Ravens.

It's about proximity. This kind of stuff happens when two fan bases are so close to each other.

The silly things going on in this thread are making me chuckle, though.

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02-28-2012, 11:09 PM
  #65
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I'm a Redskins fan, and while it's not personally true of me, a lot of Redskins fans around me get just as ridiculously worked up about preseason games with the Ravens.

It's about proximity. This kind of stuff happens when two fan bases are so close to each other.

The silly things going on in this thread are making me chuckle, though.
I literally have yet to find a Redskin fan who cares about the Ravens at all, on the other hand every single Raven's fan I know of does any and everything to get their achievements thrown out there like its the greatest thing ever.

The media also hypes it up as if it means something. Heck, this is the same team that gave Jim Zorn a damn Gatorade bath.

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02-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #66
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I literally have yet to find a Redskin fan who cares about the Ravens at all, on the other hand every single Raven's fan I know of does any and everything to get their achievements thrown out there like its the greatest thing ever.

The media also hypes it up as if it means something. Heck, this is the same team that gave Jim Zorn a damn Gatorade bath.
Funny, it's the exact opposite for me. Case-in-point: your posting of the Gibbs/Lombardi trophies earlier

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02-28-2012, 11:17 PM
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I don't know why you think there's an unhealthy hatred towards Redskins fans from Ravens' fans. I haven't seen much of it. But there's certainly one going the other way, as shown by your tool bag post.

I also have no idea why you think there's football envy. What on Earth do Ravens' fans have to be envious of Redskins' fans about?
Your head is in the sand if you think there's no football envy in Baltimore. It's embarrassing when your beat writers have articles asking if Redskins fans would cheer for the Ravens in the play-offs and when your coach says, "We want to be their AFC team; that's all we're asking." You think Mike Shanahan would ever plead for Ravens fans to root for the Redskins?

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=357&sid=2703383

I openly hate the Ravens and enjoy every one of their losses. Their fan base rivals only Dallas and Philly as the most obnoxious and arrogant that I've ever been around. Living right outside of Baltimore, I was excited for the city when the team came. That quickly changed when their inferiority complex raged for a solid decade.

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02-28-2012, 11:24 PM
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Your head is in the sand if you think there's no football envy in Baltimore. It's embarrassing when your beat writers have articles asking if Redskins fans would cheer for the Ravens in the play-offs and when your coach says, "We want to be their AFC team; that's all we're asking." You think Mike Shanahan would ever plead for Ravens fans to root for the Redskins?

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=357&sid=2703383

I openly hate the Ravens and enjoy every one of their losses. Their fan base rivals only Dallas and Philly as the most obnoxious and arrogant that I've ever been around. Living right outside of Baltimore, I was excited for the city when the team came. That quickly changed when their inferiority complex raged for a solid decade.
Way to skew the quote completely out of context. I guess that's okay if it fits your ridiculous argument.

It's quite hilarious that you complain about an inferiority complex among Ravens' fans, when you blatantly display a raging inferiority complex.

Yet again, there's no football envy, whatsoever, in Baltimore. Ravens fans aren't envious or jealous of Redskins fans in any way regarding football.

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02-28-2012, 11:24 PM
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Funny, it's the exact opposite for me. Case-in-point: your posting of the Gibbs/Lombardi trophies earlier
I posted it in response to the "BLAH DA SKINS ARE TEH SUCKORZ! LONG LIVE DA RATBIRDS!" comment.

I honestly couldn't give a damn about the Raven's.

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02-28-2012, 11:26 PM
  #70
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I honestly couldn't give a damn about the Raven's.
Substitute 'Raven's' for 'Redskins', and that's how the vast majority of Ravens fans feel.

The Redskins and their fans aren't even in the top 5 most hated/cared about/whatever among other teams.

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02-28-2012, 11:28 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Substitute 'Raven's' for 'Redskins', and that's how the vast majority of Ravens fans feel.

The Redskins and their fans aren't even in the top 5 most hated/cared about/whatever among other teams.
Except...yanno...you're team and all that. And yeah Cowboy's still hate us.

And again, you think current times has all bearing on a franchise when it just doesn't. Redskins, historically, are one of the better franchises and most storied.

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02-28-2012, 11:34 PM
  #72
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Way to skew the quote completely out of context. I guess that's okay if it fits your ridiculous argument.

It's quite hilarious that you complain about an inferiority complex among Ravens' fans, when you blatantly display a raging inferiority complex.

Yet again, there's no football envy, whatsoever, in Baltimore. Ravens fans aren't envious or jealous of Redskins fans in any way regarding football.
I say again, do you EVER think ANYONE from the Redskins organization would openly campaign for Ravens fans to root for them in the play-offs? You're just flat out wrong if you think there's no inferiority complex.

And hating a team for it's ********* fan base doesn't count as a "raging inferiority complex," it counts as hating a team for it's ********* fan base.

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02-28-2012, 11:39 PM
  #73
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Yea I'm sure the perennial super bowl contender Ravens fans, and their beautiful downtown stadium are really jealous of the perennial pathetic Redskins, and their horrible stadium in Landover, MD.
I've been to Ravens games against the Steelers, and Redskins games against the Steelers, and there were FAR more opposing fans at the game in Baltimore, so this statement is 100% false.


And there is a massive inferiority complex among some Ravens fans about the 'Skins. How else do you explain a Radio show in Baltimore who's biggest topic of discussion is blasting the Redskins?

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02-28-2012, 11:45 PM
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I've been to Ravens games against the Steelers, and Redskins games against the Steelers, and there were FAR more opposing fans at the game in Baltimore, so this statement is 100% false.


And there is a massive inferiority complex among some Ravens fans about the 'Skins. How else do you explain a Radio show in Baltimore who's biggest topic of discussion is blasting the Redskins?
It shows how different the cities are. I haven't felt any animosity towards the Orioles organization by anyone affiliated with the Nationals, but the attitude in Baltimore towards the Redskins is embarrassing.

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02-28-2012, 11:49 PM
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I literally have yet to find a Redskin fan who cares about the Ravens at all, on the other hand every single Raven's fan I know of does any and everything to get their achievements thrown out there like its the greatest thing ever.

The media also hypes it up as if it means something. Heck, this is the same team that gave Jim Zorn a damn Gatorade bath.
So I guess at least half of the football discussion in this thread doesn't exist.

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