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cost of Stewart @ the Draft?

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02-29-2012, 01:34 AM
  #26
Dolph Ziggler
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He's 23 and he's going to bounce back.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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02-29-2012, 11:16 AM
  #27
2 Minute Minor
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
He's 23 and he's going to bounce back.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
This is my impression, too.

He has areas of his game that need(ed) work. He's working. He's got exactly the right coach and situation for this to happen. As long as Chris' attitude doesn't deteriorate, which seems unlikely given the team success and the way his teammates seem to accept him. I haven't heard any hint of him being scapegoated at any point this season, other than when Hitch mentions that we have multiple players that didn't compete hard enough after a game.

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02-29-2012, 01:39 PM
  #28
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I have a feeling he will still be a Blue next season. It will be interesting to see how he takes the off season. Now that we have a stable coaching staff, and a core that won't be moved, he will have plenty of resources to aid his training.

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02-29-2012, 01:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I have a feeling he will still be a Blue next season. It will be interesting to see how he takes the off season. Now that we have a stable coaching staff, and a core that won't be moved, he will have plenty of resources to aid his training.
It would be a bad move to trade him when his value is down. He's young, good sized, strong, a decent skater, has a great shot, and has proven he scan score well on The NHL level. It's worth the gamble that he'll take tocoaching, work on his game, improve his attitude and become a solid scoring forward (perhaps even an all-around forward-if we are lucky).

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02-29-2012, 03:56 PM
  #30
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I bet he's still a Blue next season too. But look at the Stempniak situation. He started off 08-09 with 13 points in 14 games after a year where he dropped in production and they moved him. So much depends on Tarasenko.

First hurdle is Tarasenko signs. We will know by the draft and Stewart could possibly be moved then.

Second hurdle is Tarasenko shows in camp and during the season that he's a player. At that point Armstrong will feel confident that moving Stewart doesn't hurt the team, especially with Schwartz ready/near ready and Rattie looking like a real prospect too.

Third hurdle is Stewart regains enough value for a deal to make sense. Nobody wants to sell low, even those of us who prefer to move on from Stewart. I don't think it's a Boyes situation, but I think it's more a Stempniak situation. Streaky goal scorer who isn't bringing a whole lot to the table when he's not scoring. Stewart's a little faster, Stempniak's a better playmaker and it's not the perfect analogy but it's closer than any in recent memory. If Armstrong can get a Steen quality player in return I'd think that was good value.

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02-29-2012, 04:05 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
I bet he's still a Blue next season too. But look at the Stempniak situation. He started off 08-09 with 13 points in 14 games after a year where he dropped in production and they moved him. So much depends on Tarasenko.

First hurdle is Tarasenko signs. We will know by the draft and Stewart could possibly be moved then.

Second hurdle is Tarasenko shows in camp and during the season that he's a player. At that point Armstrong will feel confident that moving Stewart doesn't hurt the team, especially with Schwartz ready/near ready and Rattie looking like a real prospect too.

Third hurdle is Stewart regains enough value for a deal to make sense. Nobody wants to sell low, even those of us who prefer to move on from Stewart. I don't think it's a Boyes situation, but I think it's more a Stempniak situation. Streaky goal scorer who isn't bringing a whole lot to the table when he's not scoring. Stewart's a little faster, Stempniak's a better playmaker and it's not the perfect analogy but it's closer than any in recent memory. If Armstrong can get a Steen quality player in return I'd think that was good value.
With Tarasenko on an ELC, there's not reason that team can't use both players....and field a lethal 3rd line (however you want to construct the combos).

I don't think I'm in disagreement with you in principle, but folks need to be careful of creating a false dichotomy where the team is choosing between Tarasenko stepping into an NHL role or keeping Stewart. As a fan, I want it all.

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02-29-2012, 04:08 PM
  #32
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Except Stempniak only put up > 20 goals one year, and that was a year where someone on the Blues had to score.

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02-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
With Tarasenko on an ELC, there's not reason that team can't use both players....and field a lethal 3rd line (however you want to construct the combos).

I don't think I'm in disagreement with you in principle, but folks need to be careful of creating a false dichotomy where the team is choosing between Tarasenko stepping into an NHL role or keeping Stewart. As a fan, I want it all.
True, but I guess I'm suggesting that they have a lot of options for wingers. Right now there are too many moving parts to adequately analyze. I think there is a chance Langenbrunner's brought back. Lower chance than Arnott but a chance. If they took on an LD with a larger contract, does that mean Schwartz and his ELC make the roster, particularly if he shows himself to be ready? Would a trade of Stewart bring back a center pushing someone to wing? Would Berglund have made a development leap? Too many moving pieces to really nail down an either/or situation. What I'm suggesting is if they see enough out of Tarasenko to feel confident the guy's for real, they'll feel more comfortable moving Stewart knowing they have at least two scoring line right wingers (Oshie, Tarasenko) as part of the core. If Schwartz is on the roster at the same time McDonald is, does that move Perron over to the right? Lots of questions yet to be answered. I just wanted to suggest that them seeing Tarasenko on the roster and performing well should give them a lot more feeling of freedom to move Stewart if they get a return that also improves the team.

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02-29-2012, 04:15 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Except Stempniak only put up > 20 goals one year, and that was a year where someone on the Blues had to score.
Yes, but he was a streaky scorer and scored 28 the year after the Blues traded him. It's not a perfect comparison but you could say "someone on Colorado had to score" since they weren't exactly loaded either.

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02-29-2012, 04:20 PM
  #35
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I basically agree with how PN and B&B see Stewart as a player, and I think their roster construction comments are accurate as well. My one caveat would be that I think Stewart ultimately has a better shot at filling a productive/important role here (whether or not he rounds out his game, which he might) than they probably do.

I would like to see how he performs in the playoffs, what sort of contract he ends up with this offseason, and what sort of chemistry he has with the roster we field next year before seriously entertaining thoughts of actively shopping him.

If the right deal came along where we could parlay him into a similar talent at a position of need (i.e., a deal that truly improves the team), I would pull the trigger without much hesitation...but the chances of that happening are slim to say the least. Nobody is going to send a Kulikov our way for Stewart...and anything less probably isn't worth it.

I think the most likely course is that we stick with him for another full year or two as he plays through whatever (what should be a pretty reasonable) contract he signs this offseason. When that's up, we'll find a way to keep him if he's improved his overall game or become a key offensive contributor. If he hasn't done that, we'll probably end up moving his rights for futures to open up some payroll room and augment the system's depth.

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02-29-2012, 04:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Yes, but he was a streaky scorer and scored 28 the year after the Blues traded him. It's not a perfect comparison but you could say "someone on Colorado had to score" since they weren't exactly loaded either.
He barely scored 28 points the year we traded him. The 2006-2007 Blues team was led in points by Doug Weight with 59. We had 5 players over 40 points, but two were traded at the deadline. Paul Stastny had as many assists as Weight had points.

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02-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #37
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This is one of those topics, that both sides have a very good point about Stewart's future.

I would ask him what he thought he needed to work on at the end of the season. If he didn't say I need to be in the best shape of my life or something to that effect. I would hope The Blues would see this as warning sign.

But they'll still have to sign him to a one-year deal and hope he starts lighting it up, and then they should move him unless he playing a completely different game than he is now. Because now he's a overpaid goalscorer that doesn't work hard enough to score goals or play consistent in his own end.

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02-29-2012, 04:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
He barely scored 28 points the year we traded him. The 2006-2007 Blues team was led in points by Doug Weight with 59. We had 5 players over 40 points, but two were traded at the deadline. Paul Stastny had as many assists as Weight had points.
Yeah, and with only 19 of 82 games to go, Stewart has 24 points with a much more talented supporting cast. When the Blues traded Stempniak, he had 13 points in 14 games. That's a fact. He's a streaky point producer like Stewart and when he's not producing points he's not producing much of anything. I said it's not a perfect analogy as Stempniak's a smarter player and better playmaker while Stewart is faster, but neither is physical and I stand by comparing the situations. Stewart had more production under his belt than Stempniak did which is why his trade price when we acquired him was more costly. I do think Stewart's ceiling is higher than Stempniak's ceiling. Still, the profile's not that far off – close enough to use.

For the record, for some reason "Stempniak" has become an insult around Blues boards and I don't see it that way at all. I wil always root for that guy. I'm particularly fond of him, but that doesn't mean I can't be realistic about his player profile in the NHL.


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02-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #39
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He barely scored 28 points the year we traded him. The 2006-2007 Blues team was led in points by Doug Weight with 59. We had 5 players over 40 points, but two were traded at the deadline. Paul Stastny had as many assists as Weight had points.
Who are you referring to?

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02-29-2012, 04:58 PM
  #40
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Who are you referring to?
Stempniak. But I looked at it wrong.

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02-29-2012, 05:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Who are you referring to?
Stempniak is unfairly maligned by Blues fans.

Stempniak
57GP – 14-13-27
82GP – 27-25-52
80GP – 13-25-38 (down year before the Blues traded him)
75GP – 14-30-44 (trade year)
80GP – 28-20-48
82GP – 19-19-38
51GP – 12-12-24 (this year, hurt)

Stewart
53GP – 11-8-19
77GP – 28-36-64
62GP – 28-25-53
60GP – 13-11-24

Again, Stewart has the higher ceiling which is why it's not a perfect analogy. His streaks are more potent than Stempniak's streaks. When they're at the top of their game, Stewart is better. Stewart should be a better player than Stempniak. But there's no doubt Stewart can go on prolonged funks that hinder a team's potency. Colorado fans tried to tell us this and we were mesmerized by his numbers and his initial performance, a hot streak, so we didn't listen. I'm sure Coyotes fans didn't want to listen to Toronto fans when they got Stempniak and saw him put up 14G-4A-18pts in 18 games after he was traded at the deadline. Hidden in Stewart's numbers is the reality that the numbers come in bunches. Without world class goaltending and defense this year, they wouldn't be winning every single game they limp to three goals.

It may be quite awhile before the Blues have a playmaking top-two center with whom Stewart can play. He would likely put up better numbers on a team that had one. If he can show other teams he's still got plenty of talent with a streak, I'd move him for hopefully a more potent return than Stempniak brought. I don't mean that disrespectfully to Steen, but if Steen had been the player in Toronto we've seen they wouldn't have traded him to us. So I'm saying value on the date of the trade.

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03-01-2012, 01:53 PM
  #42
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This proposal was brought up by another poster in the "iggy-kipper" thread.

stl: iggy
cgy: stewart + ty rattie + 1st in 2012

I think it's pretty even, flames probably have to add a minor piece but overall i think the foundation is there for a good deal. Thoughts?

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03-01-2012, 02:18 PM
  #43
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Stewart is just such a tease. I remember the first few games in, he and Berglund looked like they were going to be a huge force together this year. He had that amazing backhand goal that looked so effortless (forget who that was against) and I was like, here we go. Lately it seems like he's having enough trouble just stick handling up the ice. It never looks like he's in total control of the puck when he's untouched and then if somebody is on him you can pretty much assume the other team is getting the puck back. He's just a very frustrating player.

At least with Berglund, he's working every shift and even if he's not converting with points, he spends a lot of time with puck possesion in the o-zone and gives the other team fits. Stewart is pretty much the opposite only the points aren't showing up either.

I don't have a stance either way on whether or not to trade him, but man I just wish we could get some regular determination out of the guy. We've seen his skill level. Will he ever bring it on a regular basis? This was exactly what Avs fans told us after the trade, and I was too blinded by the point totals to really listen to what they were saying...

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03-01-2012, 02:20 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
This proposal was brought up by another poster in the "iggy-kipper" thread.

stl: iggy
cgy: stewart + ty rattie + 1st in 2012

I think it's pretty even, flames probably have to add a minor piece but overall i think the foundation is there for a good deal. Thoughts?
Too much from St. Louis. No thanks.

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03-01-2012, 02:27 PM
  #45
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I don't know about that trade Bananaz. I doubt you'll get too many blues fans that would do it. We've been burned so many times in the past by trying to mortgage future picks and prospects on older veteran players, that not too many of us are ready to make a move like that. I love Iggy, but he'll be 35 in July and is only signed for next season. Plus he'll make 7 million and the blues are a budget team with many young RFA's looking to get raises.

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03-01-2012, 02:32 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
This proposal was brought up by another poster in the "iggy-kipper" thread.

stl: iggy
cgy: stewart + ty rattie + 1st in 2012

I think it's pretty even, flames probably have to add a minor piece but overall i think the foundation is there for a good deal. Thoughts?
That might be close to what it would cost for the Flames to move him, but no way the Blues offer anything close to that. Too much salary and there is no way we move 3 young, cost controlled pieces for a 35 year old.

Can understand you wanting Rattie after seeing how he plays with Bärtschi though...

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03-01-2012, 02:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
This proposal was brought up by another poster in the "iggy-kipper" thread.

stl: iggy
cgy: stewart + ty rattie + 1st in 2012

I think it's pretty even, flames probably have to add a minor piece but overall i think the foundation is there for a good deal. Thoughts?
It was moot from a pre-deadline perspective on the Blues end because of money but it's a deal I'd have done prior to this year's playoffs if the new ownership could've greenlighted it. However, even losing one postseason run from Iginla significantly drives down his value to the Blues. He's only got a few left, so one productive postseason subtracted takes away 20%-25% of his value.

Next year I'd give up Stewart and a 1st at the deadline. If Stewart rebounds to 30 goal form then that offer probably disappears entirely and I'd look to trade Stewart for a linchpin LD.

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03-01-2012, 02:57 PM
  #48
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I'm not interesting in trading for Iginla. Calgary will want more than I would be willing to be pay.

I still prefer to just hold on to him. If I was to move him, I think Phoenix makes an excellent trading partner

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03-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #49
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I don't view Stewart as a Sniper either......I would classify him as a scorer. He doesn't really have the ability to "snipe" (unless he's on his backhand) while skating (like a Hull or Kessel) and he doesn't have a Stamkos-type one-timer either. He's a guy that knows how to go to the front of the net and push off at the right time to create enough separation to bang home a rebound or a tap-in.

But that's the issue, he needs someone else to get the puck there for him. As someone stated earlier, it's like he can't even stick-handle up the ice without looking like the puck is about to jump off his stick and straight to the defenseman. It's really weird, and the term "tease" is a good one. You think he's going to turn it around, you think, you think, you think...............................and then it never seems to happen. He just keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Not getting the puck out. Not getting the puck deep. Reversing a play along the boards with no support in the offensive zone. Not moving his feet and losing the puck. Etc.

Could he rebound? Sure. But what does he rebound into? The same guy we see now but with 2x the goals? Is that really a guy we're going to pay 4-5 million for? B/c that's what he's going to ask for since goal scoring is retardedly overpriced in this league. (This assuming we give him a 1-year "show me" contract and he blows up into the 35ish goal scorer we all hoped he could be)

That's why I've been on the, "I'm willing to listen, but only to fulfill a true need," bandwagon. I just don't see Stewart as being a guy we want to depend on, especially with all the offensive firepower we have up and coming.

In a perfect world, this off-season would go something like this.

1) New ownership that can spend money
2) Tank signs a contract with us
3) We trade Stewart, Cole, D'ags, 1st, and even another prospect for some top line Center (E. Staal, Stasney, Tavares etc. [Not saying these guys are available, just showing the caliber of player])
4) We sign Suter
5) We keep all the FAs we want (Oshie/Perron/Arnott/Jackman etc)

That would fill out our roster pretty nicely imo. We could still ease Tank into N.A. hockey as Backes and Oshie would be our top 2 RW. AMac has one last year before Schwartz takes over his spot. And we still have Rattie as a trade chip/future scoring depth.

That is a team that would make a LOT of SERIOUS Cup runs.

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03-02-2012, 01:59 PM
  #50
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I'm disappointed fans are throwing Stewart under the bus so quickly. There are a few things that I'd like to point out about his situation. First, he's not lazy as some of you have said. As Panger said during the Edmonton game (I believe?), he's the second one on the ice, and the second one off the ice, with Perron. He's clearly working hard, and I've only seen positives thus far. We don't have a 20 goal scorer yet (Backes w/ 19), and as a team, we haven't been scoring a lot of goals at all since Hitchcock took over, we're a defensive minded team. Stewart is 24, and Berglund is 23. Berglund has been with the same group of guys (for the most part) for 4 seasons and has only scored 20 goals twice (has 13 now). Stewart has been with the same group of guys for the equivalent of a season. He has scored 28 goals twice in his young career. People want to keep Berglund despite him having one below-mediocre. Stewart's bad season isn't over yet, but if he can get 20 goals, I'll call it an average season for him. There is no doubt about it, that he's having a down year, I'm not doubting that. Stewart was a -24 with his time in Colorado, and he's a +9 with the Blues so far, so he's on the ice for productivity. Berglund is +9 in his career (-2 this season), so he's doing things right as well. I want to keep both of these guys, they are young and not bringing the team down.

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