HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Montreal and Calgary (not Iginla)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-13-2011, 09:37 AM
  #1
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Montreal and Calgary (not Iginla)

Rene Bourque
Cory Sarich
Greg Nemisz
Brett Carson

for

Mike Cammalleri
Yannick Weber
2012 3rd


the Cap is basically evened out in this deal.



For Cal

Cory Sarich has supposedly demanded a trade, if so, this gets him out of the conference. It would also reunites Cammalleri and Iginla and spark the offence.

Weber provides an NHL level defenceman with some offensive skill to help replace Giordano on the PP.

It also provides a 3rd in a deep and talented draft pool


For Montreal

It adds more size upfront and on the Blueline, as well it stocks the prospect pool with a natural RW with size and skill

Halifaxhab* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 09:43 AM
  #2
Signature
Unsustainable™
 
Signature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,695
vCash: 50
Calgary says no. They need all the prospects they have to develop, not trade them away for 3rds, and wingers are not Calgary's priority.

Don't need Weber - Giordano is injured, not traded or dead. He will be back.
Third is not very useful - 2nd and 1sts are useful in the deep draft, and Bourque can net a 1st on his own. Cammalleri does not really fix any problem Flames are having as he does not play centre but Tanguay should not be pushed to the second line.

In other words, Montreal and Calgary most likely need some of the same things more than anything, they are bad trading partners.

Signature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:06 AM
  #3
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Conroy View Post
Calgary says no. They need all the prospects they have to develop, not trade them away for 3rds, and wingers are not Calgary's priority.

Don't need Weber - Giordano is injured, not traded or dead. He will be back.
Third is not very useful - 2nd and 1sts are useful in the deep draft, and Bourque can net a 1st on his own. Cammalleri does not really fix any problem Flames are having as he does not play centre but Tanguay should not be pushed to the second line.

In other words, Montreal and Calgary most likely need some of the same things more than anything, they are bad trading partners.
If Cammalieri's contract wasn't so big with so many years left on it I'd do it. The only useful pieces we'd be giving up are Bourque and Nemisz. I just think Bourque is better than Cammalieri at this point and is half the cost.

Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:13 AM
  #4
danyhabsfan
Registered User
 
danyhabsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
If Cammalieri's contract wasn't so big with so many years left on it I'd do it. The only useful pieces we'd be giving up are Bourque and Nemisz. I just think Bourque is better than Cammalieri at this point and is half the cost.
Anyway we have a logjam on defense.

Dont see why we need to have Sarich.

danyhabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:28 AM
  #5
IceDaddy
24 and Counting
 
IceDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,362
vCash: 500
I think the Flames would rather keep thier prospects. Arent they looking to rebuild soonish???

IceDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:33 AM
  #6
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
I think the Flames would rather keep thier prospects. Arent they looking to rebuild soonish???
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

They should be looking to deal their prospects to teams that already have developed some that aren't a complete and utter failure at doing so.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:59 AM
  #7
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Anyway we have a logjam on defense.

Dont see why we need to have Sarich.
out of the 8 healthy D in Montreal, how many are legit top 4? Diaz could go to Hamilton. I just feel having Sarich there with Emelin makes the D more of a physical threat. It also opens the door to possibly moving Campoli for a pick or prospect come deadline time without hurting our playoff chances

Halifaxhab* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:16 AM
  #8
Xelstyle
Registered User
 
Xelstyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chair and a Desk
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,532
vCash: 500
Value is close if not there, but seems more like an lateral use of assets. Sure Cammalleri has been great for us, but at this point, we're better off keeping Bourque's caphit along with Nemisz and Carson.

Xelstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #9
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Rene Bourque
Cory Sarich
Greg Nemisz
Brett Carson

for

Mike Cammalleri
Yannick Weber
2012 3rd


the Cap is basically evened out in this deal.



For Cal

Cory Sarich has supposedly demanded a trade, if so, this gets him out of the conference. It would also reunites Cammalleri and Iginla and spark the offence.

Weber provides an NHL level defenceman with some offensive skill to help replace Giordano on the PP.

It also provides a 3rd in a deep and talented draft pool


For Montreal

It adds more size upfront and on the Blueline, as well it stocks the prospect pool with a natural RW with size and skill
big NO from montreal...

Sarich has very little value, Nemisz & Carson are both lesser prospects (in terms of current play + potential upside) than Weber, and as bad as Cammy has been this year, he's still far more valuable than Bourque.

Live in Calgary, know the flames quite well even if not a fan. Surprised flames fan would say no to this... probably b/c they really aren't familiar with Weber & are buying into the early hype on Carson (who has been ok, but no where near as good as the radio/tv commentators make his play out to be... a case of trying hard to focus on the positives in the midst of another disapointing season)

Cammilleri for that package straight up would make more sense & be closer to equal value, Bourque + 2 average prospects (Sarich being a cap dump, which is the most he'd be as a 3M$ healthy scratch).
MAYBE Mtl adds an average prospect on their end (Palushaj? Engqvist?), from a contract # pov.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:24 AM
  #10
CaptainCrunch67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
In any other year, maybe.

As much as I like MC, his contract is really unappealing to me right now, and I'd rather not see Calgary trade any youth either.

Bourque is worth a 1st rounder, for his inconsistancies the guy is a multi role (PP, PK, ES) very productive winger, who when he's on is a game changing player.

I don't know if Nemitz is going to develope all the way or not, but he's taken leaps and bounds this year and Carson is a decent bottom pairing guy.

I'm not a fan of Weber, I'd prefer that the Flames keep doing what they're doing and playing their young defenseman.

I think that Sarich will end up with another team closer to the trade deadline.

CaptainCrunch67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:28 AM
  #11
DogsFan*
GHG
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

They should be looking to deal their prospects to teams that already have developed some that aren't a complete and utter failure at doing so.
Holy ****. Some brutal picks in there.

DogsFan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:37 AM
  #12
OMA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
big NO from montreal...

Live in Calgary, know the flames quite well even if not a fan. Surprised flames fan would say no to this... probably b/c they really aren't familiar with Weber & are buying into the early hype on Carson (who has been ok, but no where near as good as the radio/tv commentators make his play out to be... a case of trying hard to focus on the positives in the midst of another disapointing season)

Cammilleri for that package straight up would make more sense & be closer to equal value, Bourque + 2 average prospects (Sarich being a cap dump, which is the most he'd be as a 3M$ healthy scratch).
MAYBE Mtl adds an average prospect on their end (Palushaj? Engqvist?), from a contract # pov.
Not that I disagree with most of what you're saying..... but Carson hasn't played a game in Calgary this year (he's been injured most of the year and played his first set of games in the AHL last week).... so I'm not sure where the bolded statement came from.

I think the concern from the Calgary standpoint is the fact that Nemisz goes. I think we've all realized that this team is not going to be competing for the next 3-4 years... therefore dealing off Nemisz (who has looked decent in the A this year) doesn't really jive with that plan even though Cammalleri is certainly a big upgrade on Bourque for the foreseeable future

If Bourque gets dealt, it'll likely be for straight up futures instead of in a package for a guy like #13.

OMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 12:27 PM
  #13
madmike77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

They should be looking to deal their prospects to teams that already have developed some that aren't a complete and utter failure at doing so.
I don't know. Their last 4 drafts actually look pretty good.

madmike77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 12:38 PM
  #14
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

They should be looking to deal their prospects to teams that already have developed some that aren't a complete and utter failure at doing so.
Their draft history is actually very solid over the last 5 years. Considering the Flames highest pick was 13th overall and the next highest was 23rd, pulling: Backlund, Baertschi, Granlund, Reinhart, Erixon, Nemisz, Wahl, Bouma, Brodie, and Aulie, out of there is very solid.

But thanks for coming out.

blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 01:08 PM
  #15
ComixZone
Registered User
 
ComixZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,707
vCash: 500
To CGY: Mike Cammalleri
To MTL: Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz

Or

To CGY: Mike Cammalleri, 3rd in 2012, + AHL expiring contract on irrelevant play
To MTL: Cory Sarich, Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz

ComixZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 01:22 PM
  #16
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
To CGY: Mike Cammalleri
To MTL: Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz

Or

To CGY: Mike Cammalleri, 3rd in 2012, + AHL expiring contract on irrelevant play
To MTL: Cory Sarich, Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz
both of these are quite doable, I'd likely chose the 2nd option sending either Wilsie or Stafford depending on what abbotsford needs. And we'd continue to let Wahl play top 9 in Hamilton as he is now.

Halifaxhab* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 01:31 PM
  #17
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
To CGY: Mike Cammalleri
To MTL: Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz

Or

To CGY: Mike Cammalleri, 3rd in 2012, + AHL expiring contract on irrelevant play
To MTL: Cory Sarich, Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz
You do realize that Cammallieri has been awful the last two seasons right? Nowhere near as productive offensively as Bourque and doesn't bring the physicality or PK ability Bourque does? I'm not against moving Bourque, but Cammalieri is a bad pick up at this point. He had a great year with us and calgary wisely let him go when he was overpaid and signed too long term.

Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 01:33 PM
  #18
Vincent01
Registered User
 
Vincent01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 69
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Their draft history is actually very solid over the last 5 years. Considering the Flames highest pick was 13th overall and the next highest was 23rd, pulling: Backlund, Baertschi, Granlund, Reinhart, Erixon, Nemisz, Wahl, Bouma, Brodie, and Aulie, out of there is very solid.

But thanks for coming out.
Calgary is clearly one of the baddest team in the NHL when it comes to talk about draft history. Their picks in the last 5 years aren't what I would qualify as solid. They're pretty average if you want my opinion but not as bad as many persons out of Calgary believe.

About the trade, I don't think Calgary is really interrested in Cammalleri. They really should be in a re-bruild mode, which means not trading some their prospect for a guy who is gold in playoffs but tends to disappear during the season. Calgary wouldn't even be in the top 8 of their conference with Cammalleri in a Flames jersey.

Vincent01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 02:48 PM
  #19
CaptainCrunch67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
To CGY: Mike Cammalleri
To MTL: Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz

Or

To CGY: Mike Cammalleri, 3rd in 2012, + AHL expiring contract on irrelevant play
To MTL: Cory Sarich, Rene Bourque, Greg Nemisz
Even with his inconsistanciies, Bourque has outscored and outpointed Cammalleri over the last two years, they're about the same age, but I'd say that Bourque has a more well rounded game then Cammalleri, and Bourque has the better contract. So I'm wondering why the Flames should have to throw a prospect in either of those deals, if anything it should be the other way around.

If Bourque is being traded its for good picks and prospect not for a less productive more expensive player.

CaptainCrunch67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:29 PM
  #20
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA View Post
Not that I disagree with most of what you're saying..... but Carson hasn't played a game in Calgary this year (he's been injured most of the year and played his first set of games in the AHL last week).... so I'm not sure where the bolded statement came from.

I think the concern from the Calgary standpoint is the fact that Nemisz goes. I think we've all realized that this team is not going to be competing for the next 3-4 years... therefore dealing off Nemisz (who has looked decent in the A this year) doesn't really jive with that plan even though Cammalleri is certainly a big upgrade on Bourque for the foreseeable future

If Bourque gets dealt, it'll likely be for straight up futures instead of in a package for a guy like #13.
whoops... that's embarrassing... I was thinking of Brodie in talking about Carson.


but yeah, I do agree with you that the Flames shouldn't be looking to move any of their younger assets at this point. They are just starting to improve their prospect base, and even if it isn't stacked, the young pieces like Brodie, Nemisz, Irving, Ferland, Reinhart, Horak all project to be solid if not very solid supporting role type players, not irreplaceable but the kind of players worth keeping and developping to ensure that the future stars like Baertchi and Backlund (?) are well supported.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 04:51 PM
  #21
ComixZone
Registered User
 
ComixZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,707
vCash: 500
Cammalleri is a more dynamic, higher talent level player.

If Cammy really has been that bad maybe you take out Nemisz and add in a lesser prospect - but it's not like Nemisz is some AMAZING prospect, it's unlikely he'll be anything more than a bottom 6 forward in the NHL level. At the end of the day I'd much sooner have Cammalleri than Bourque - cap hit be damned.

ComixZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 05:11 PM
  #22
CaptainCrunch67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
Cammalleri is a more dynamic, higher talent level player.

If Cammy really has been that bad maybe you take out Nemisz and add in a lesser prospect - but it's not like Nemisz is some AMAZING prospect, it's unlikely he'll be anything more than a bottom 6 forward in the NHL level. At the end of the day I'd much sooner have Cammalleri than Bourque - cap hit be damned.


He might be more talented but his production is down, Bourque kills penalties as well as works the pp.

and Cammalleri is not twice as good as Bourque by any stretch even though his contract literally says he is.

At best its a one for one deal with Calgary getting something for taking the extra salary.

But I don't think that Calgary adds anything in for the swing.

His drop in production and bigger contract doesn't make that trade worth while.

CaptainCrunch67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 06:14 PM
  #23
BurnEmUp
Registered User
 
BurnEmUp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
As a Flames fan I would consider this trade for sure.

If Cammalleri can stay healthy, he is an upgrade over Bourque IMO......and we have the cap flexibility to take on his cap hit going forward.

I like Carson, but I think Weber is a step up on him, and at a younger age, because he brings some offense (and big shot) to the table that Carson doesn't.

Without any big name UFA signings from out side the organization, maybe the roster looks something like this next season:



FORWARDS

1. Curtis Glencross ($2.550m) / Olli Jokinen ($3.500m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
2. Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Mikael Backlund ($1.250m) / Lee Stempniak ($2.550m)
3. Alex Tanguay ($3.500m) / Paul Byron ($0.800m) / Sven Baertschi ($1.456m)
4. Lance Bouma ($0.693m) / Roman Horak ($0.800m) / Blake Comeau ($1.500m)

Extra - Matthew Stajan ($3.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

1. Chris Butler ($1.250m) / Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m)
2. Mark Giordano ($4.020m) / Yannick Weber ($0.850m)
3. T.J. Brodie ($0.741m) / Anton Babchuk ($2.500m)

Extra - Derek Smith ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS

1. Miikka Kiprusoff ($5.833m)
2. Henrik Karlsson ($0.862m)
3. Leland Irving ($0.800m)


SALARY CAP: $64,300,000
CAP PAYROLL: $59,537,082
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,762,918

Pretty decent roster IMO, and lots of flexibility, especially if the Flames find a new home for Stajan, and possibly even Karlsson depending how Irving performs with his cup of coffee this season.

BurnEmUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 06:23 PM
  #24
PATCHESx67
Registered User
 
PATCHESx67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Island MTL
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,412
vCash: 500
how many points does bourque normally get in the playoffs ? wonder if Cammy doubles or triples that

PATCHESx67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 06:51 PM
  #25
CaptainCrunch67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
how many points does bourque normally get in the playoffs ? wonder if Cammy doubles or triples that


That's great and everything, but if the Flames are trading Bourque its to rebuild not aquire a 6 million dollar winger.

He's not worth Bourque and a prospect to the Flames.

CaptainCrunch67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.