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Why teams struggling between the pipe didnt trade for a goalie yet?

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01-06-2012, 07:42 AM
  #1
palindrom
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Why teams struggling between the pipe didnt trade for a goalie yet?

So far this year Colombus, Tampa and Toronto goalies struggled at some point.

The question is simple, why none of them traded for a goalie yet?

I want to hear your opinion on the matter

here is some probable explanation.. which one sound more likely ?

- The cost to acquire a good goalie is too high
- Team wait to be closer to the deadline before making a move
- They try to find a solution in their farm before doing a trade
- The avaible goalies on the market are not really better than their struggling goalies
- They need time for their scout to make their mind on the right goalie to acquire
- They dont want to improve their team, so they will get a better draft pick.
- They think their own goalie will turnaround their game.
- They dont have the cap space
- They dont have the money
- They think improving their defense will do better result.
- They wait until other GM will lower their asking price for a goalie. (probably at the deadline)

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01-06-2012, 07:47 AM
  #2
Vitto79
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if ur Boston why trade Rask as Thomas is old, great but old

if ur the Nucks why move Schneider when they dont have too. He's not a FA and if Luongo get hurt the are fine.

If ur the Wild why move a G when the team was at the top of the standings.......maybe they move Harding now though

LA has been sucking so may be just maybe they move Bernier as Quick has been very good and is not the problem

If u were them would you not ask for a ton?

Nabokov will be moved because hes a vet rental and the Isles stink but they also have Montoya and Dipietro hurt so they have to wait so they dont completely tank it

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01-06-2012, 08:01 AM
  #3
HiddenInLight
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Sabres are also.hurting between the pipes this year...but i think they feel it is the rest of.the team causing it.

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01-06-2012, 08:02 AM
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GAGLine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Nabokov will be moved because hes a vet rental and the Isles stink but they also have Montoya and Dipietro hurt so they have to wait so they dont completely tank it
And Nabokov isn't the answer in Columbus. Maybe Tampa or Toronto could use him for the stretch run to the playoffs, but long term, he doesn't have that much value.

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01-06-2012, 10:22 AM
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joestevens29
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Not sure what CBJ issue really is of all the teams looking for a goalie they needed one the most. There is a big difference between them and a team like TB who has two proven vets that could come out of their slumps. CBJ has Mason who apparently no one has wanted since last year and Sanford. Granted Sanford has lived up to his contract he isn't the answer in CBJ.

As for teams not trading a goalie. Outside of Minny who is now starting to fall which of the teams with extra goalies really need to make a deal? Most of the teams with the extra goalie are in good shape and outside of a deal that will blow their socks off, why make a deal if you don't have to?

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01-06-2012, 11:02 AM
  #6
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Probably cost is too high.

Looking at what Colorado got for Varly I am sure all the sellers are trying to do the same and buyers are balking at the price.

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01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #7
LeafsandSharksfan
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When it comes to Toronto, Reimer just got a brand new extension and Gus has proven to be a capable back-up. Reimer's had some struggles but I don't think we're at the point where we'd look for a new #1.

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01-06-2012, 11:25 AM
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It's a good question. GMs are generally a patient and proud bunch, they won't give up on their players unless they absolutely have to because it's also a reflection of their managerial skills.

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01-06-2012, 11:28 AM
  #9
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People see the value of having a good backup and aren't screwing things up.

Only two goalies really available are Nabokov and Bernier and even then what do you cough up to get them?

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01-06-2012, 11:43 AM
  #10
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Goalie stats on one team don't automatically transfer over to goalie stats on a new team. You could end up paying a fortune (which it seems the teams with extra goalies want right now), and getting little benefit.

Is Vokoun really that much of an upgrade for Washington? Is Bryz really that much of an upgrade for Philly? Is Elliot that much of a downgrade for St Louis?

Goalies are hit and miss. More often than not, miss.

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01-06-2012, 11:44 AM
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The young goalies that are available won't be cheap in trade. Why give away valued parts for a goalie when you can try to get another one on the cheap at the deadline (Khabiboulin, etc from a non-playoff team), or go after a free agent for possibly cheap in the summer (Harding, etc.).

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01-06-2012, 11:46 AM
  #12
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Columbus, Howson tends to let give young players every oppo before giving up on them.

The Leafs won't make a move since they are committed to Reimer and Burke hates to be wrong.

Tampa Bay went through this last year and are caught off guard that Roloson has fallen so fast.

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01-06-2012, 11:53 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The young goalies that are available won't be cheap in trade. Why give away valued parts for a goalie when you can try to get another one on the cheap at the deadline (Khabiboulin, etc from a non-playoff team), or go after a free agent for possibly cheap in the summer (Harding, etc.).
Depends on the situation. If you wait for UFA's then you'll be bidding and paying more to get a goalie like this.

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01-06-2012, 11:57 AM
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I don't think any of the goaltenders available are really that established to justify a trade. And those that have a history in the league (Nabokov for example) haven't demonstrated that they can be a longterm solution.

I think teams that need goaltending are looking for a Cam Ward type - someone that will contribute consistently and longterm. Otherwise, they see no need to upgrade when there is no certainty. Will Nabokov be certain upgrade on Reimer?

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01-06-2012, 11:58 AM
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I think it's just too risky and too high in demand which would result in an overpayment for a guy that won't be a sure bet.

Goalies can prove themselves in one city and then tank in another. Plus GM's would be reluctant to trade away a goalie unless they had to ie: Schneider and Rask are awesome and I'm sure are attracting attention but unless Boston or Vancouver can keep them, why should they trade them??? May as well have the utmost confidence in 2 goalies and not just one. Maybe at contract time or if a great offer comes up but until then, ride the wave.

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01-06-2012, 11:59 AM
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joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Depends on the situation. If you wait for UFA's then you'll be bidding and paying more to get a goalie like this.
I don't see there being much of a market for UFA goalies anymore. Maybe you won't get the best one available, but there is always a lot of goalies sitting around wondering why no one will give them 4mil.

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01-06-2012, 12:05 PM
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I think it's because teams are starting to realize that having an elite goalie doesn't correlate to post season success. Goalies are by nature incredibly inconsistent. The best goalies can go cold at any time, and the worst goalies can get hot at any time. Over the course of a regular season, the best goalies will spend more time hot than cold, and they can really help their teams win. But within a playoff series, it's a much smaller sample size. A couple bad nights in a row and you might not have time to regain your form. Over the course of an 82 game season, of course a goalie like Lundqvist will win you more games and cost you fewer than Michael Neuvirth, but over a 4-7 game span it's practically a toss up.

Looking at the numbers, the same thing is true. Let's assume that an elite goalie has a .920 save %. The last time a saw a figure, the league average was at .9097%. That's a difference of .0103%, or roughly one goal every 100 shots. Assuming an average of 30 shots a game, that's just over 2 goals over the span of a 7 game series. Are the extra millions you spend for an elite goalie worth those 2 goals in a playoff series, or would they be better spent on a skater? Personally, I'd choose the latter. Or in the case of Bernier, Schneider, or Harding, are those 2 goals worth the cost of acquiring one of them, which we know from the Varlamov trade is going to be high?

Now, I don't think elite goalies are always a waste of money. Teams like the Rangers, Canes, and Sabres probably wouldn't have made the playoffs in recent years without the play of Lundqvist, Ward, and Miller. With an elite goalie, fringe teams like Columbus would probably make the playoffs (though I doubt they'd have much success once they got there). Just look at the lift Lehtonen's hot start gave Columbus. But for elite teams who can make the playoffs without elite goaltending like the Flyers or Blackhawks, investing in a top goalie with the hope that it'll give you the push you need to win a cup is probably a waste of money. Flyers fans are learning that already, and we're not even at the playoffs yet. In a salary cap world, for an elite team to invest in an elite goalie is a very high risk, moderate reward move, and I don't think it makes sense.

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01-06-2012, 12:11 PM
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I think GM's are taking stock of their teams at the moment. I figure we'll see some goalie movies as the season drags on.

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01-06-2012, 12:14 PM
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There isn't a team out there with two good goaltenders that doesn't value both of them - the days of riding a starter for 75 games a season are all but over.

With that in mind, why would a team thriving at the goaltender position look to make a move during the season?

At the kind of price it would take, a team looking for a goalie is going to either have to give up a good NHL player or just bend over and take it via prospects and picks. There aren't too many teams that can give up a good NHLer without getting worse (and if they are getting worse what's the point of rushing to address their goalie problems) and nobody wants to empty out the cupboard right now.

The kind of goaltenders who don't cost that much are the guys who aren't generally a guaranteed upgrade over what most teams have available to them now.

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01-06-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Not sure what CBJ issue really is of all the teams looking for a goalie they needed one the most. There is a big difference between them and a team like TB who has two proven vets that could come out of their slumps. CBJ has Mason who apparently no one has wanted since last year and Sanford. Granted Sanford has lived up to his contract he isn't the answer in CBJ.
Mark Dekanich. Has had a crazy string of injuries that started as soon as he suited up for us. We'd like to see what we have in him, so we're kind of hesitant to pick up Yet Another Young Maybe-Starter. And Sanford has done a reasonable job as a stopgap (like we expected he would) - when he's starting and doing a good job, the team as a whole plays pretty well.

We just didn't expect Mason would melt down as thoroughly and completely as he has. Heck, what with the whole new full-time goaltending coach thing, we figured he'd be on the upswing.

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01-06-2012, 12:38 PM
  #21
joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Mark Dekanich. Has had a crazy string of injuries that started as soon as he suited up for us. We'd like to see what we have in him, so we're kind of hesitant to pick up Yet Another Young Maybe-Starter. And Sanford has done a reasonable job as a stopgap (like we expected he would) - when he's starting and doing a good job, the team as a whole plays pretty well.

We just didn't expect Mason would melt down as thoroughly and completely as he has. Heck, what with the whole new full-time goaltending coach thing, we figured he'd be on the upswing.
Personally it would appear that Howson was gunning for the playoffs this year, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't make the upgrade when he had a chance to still make them. One of the guys from TSN was on local radio a couple months, maybe Pang, and he said they need to bite the bullet and just play Mason in the AHL for the remainder of the year and find someone else. It's not doing the team any good or Mason at this point.

Also sounded like Mason was on the block since last year, so if true why would you fool yourself into thinking he'd all of a sudden get better?

While Howson is probably doing the smart thing now and not giving up assets, he probably isn't going to be around to see much more of this.

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01-06-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Personally it would appear that Howson was gunning for the playoffs this year, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't make the upgrade when he had a chance to still make them. One of the guys from TSN was on local radio a couple months, maybe Pang, and he said they need to bite the bullet and just play Mason in the AHL for the remainder of the year and find someone else. It's not doing the team any good or Mason at this point.

Also sounded like Mason was on the block since last year, so if true why would you fool yourself into thinking he'd all of a sudden get better?

While Howson is probably doing the smart thing now and not giving up assets, he probably isn't going to be around to see much more of this.
I made some reference to it in my post - we thought he could improve because last year he did well while the goaltending coach was in town and with him. We hired a full-time goaltending coach last offseason. Ergo, possible improvement. Instead, what we got was Epic Meltdown 24/7.

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01-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't see there being much of a market for UFA goalies anymore. Maybe you won't get the best one available, but there is always a lot of goalies sitting around wondering why no one will give them 4mil.
Such as...

(As perspective on the last couple goalie trades not for another goalie:

Bryzgalov's rights traded for a 3rd round pick at draft, signed for 9 years, $51 mil)
Varlamov trade for Colorado's 1st and 2nd round picks next season


Last edited by LickTheEnvelope: 01-06-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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01-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #24
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LA has been sucking so may be just maybe they move Bernier as Quick has been very good and is not the problem
6-0-3 in their last 9 games is sucking?

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01-06-2012, 04:59 PM
  #25
The K Man
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Quote:
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Columbus, Howson tends to let give young players every oppo before giving up on them.

The Leafs won't make a move since they are committed to Reimer and Burke hates to be wrong.

Tampa Bay went through this last year and are caught off guard that Roloson has fallen so fast.
Pretty sure every GM hates to be wrong.

I don't think the Leafs have traded for a goalie yet because we've been doing good without a clear cut #1 so for except for a short stretch. Both are goalie are young and have showed promise but just lack the consistency, but not to the point where we need to make our team worse in other positions to make goaltending better.

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