Went with MacLean for one reason -- despite Howson's failures, I think there are assets of value in the organization, both in a handful of promising youngsters and in the tradeable parts of this team that will make a rebuild easier than what Howson faced.
Mentally, it feels like the organization is in worse shape, but asset-wise, I don't think it is.
Almost exactly what I was going to post. MacLeans drafting was absolutely horrible and really set the franchise back.
I went with Priest/Howson. DM had a FAR more difficult job with creating a team from ground zero...literally. He also seemed to have had a tighter budget then Howson has been given. Howson still has not yielded a franchise type player, this year may be the exception, but thats possibly by it landing in his lap with the worst team in the league, DM at least made an aggressive deal to land his franchise player (one that Howson has now essentially driven out of town). Its a no brainer when it comes to the president side, Priest has no clue what to do with a hockey team, DM sold hockey to a non hockey market. Look at what the youth hockey and adult hockey has become, while the CAHL is the only league in Columbus, its the largest adult rec league in the US! Howson was billed as a capologist, he put together the 6th highest priced team and will be finishing DEAD last...EPIC FAIL
Nice job, TheDoctorLies. You present a very informative and concise evaluation of both MacLean and Howson.
@650X2 - not sure who the "we" are in your comment but you alone don't have the right to speak for everyone on this board, at least not for me, in telling anyone to GTFO. A little bit overboard, I believe. If someone feels embarrassed to be a Jacket fan that does not preclude them from expressing their opinions here!
Almost exactly what I was going to post. MacLeans drafting was absolutely horrible and really set the franchise back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 650X2
You guys tickle me pink.
Our defense pipeline with EXGMDM was Russel.
Our center pipeline with EXGMDM was Platt? Maybe lol
Look at it now..
As I said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah
Jack Johnson and our prospects better pan out or we are set up for the "decade of doom". You thought that last 10 years was bad...
2007 was, now, mostly a waste. York is a long term project, if he ever amounts to anything. Weber is questionable. At least Jake eventually turned into Jack Johnson at the cost of another potential start (we are down one important asset).
2008 first round pick gone. We are all in "potential" territory right now.
The ultimate test is not so much for these guys to be productive. It's to start getting wins.
It's great the system looks better. We are going to need it because our roster blows.
Truth is, we've never had a balanced approach. MacLean relied on his instincts too much. Priest/Howson have taken a thoroughly analytical view without taking the intangibles in any given situation into account. Both ways can lead to the kind of dumpster fire we've got going on these days. Still, I think when you take into account the kind of backbiting we've seen from the Priest/Howson regime, it's more poisonous than Maclean's boorish approach.
Doug had less money, but drafted like crap due to bringing in friends. We can't blame him for taking King's spot, on one of the fan shows King said he knew it was coming from above Doug.
Howson has been given alot more money to work with and has done crap with it other than giving role players summer homes. In Howson's defense he did have Priest do the Carter deal.
Then we had sell outs, now we give out ipads. (and soon cars) How much of that is years of bland teams adding up and how much is the train wreck of the last few years.
Dougie Mac was an NHL head coach for the Florida Panthers.
And a pretty good one at that. Look at the Panthers' team that ended up in the Stanley Cup Finals. Even then, the Panthers were only significantly outplayed in one game of that series (Game 2).
I used to tape the national broadcasts of NHL games during the 1990s, including All-Star Games, playoff games, and everything. That was one of the joys of not having cable until I was ready to move out. MacLean coached the 1995-96 Eastern All-Stars. It was a great game in Boston, and Ray Bourque scored the winner with less than a minute to go in front of the hometown crowd. This was during the days of my favorite pet project, the Commissioner's Choice. The West had Denis Savard, the East had Craig MacTavish. If you don't remember MacTavish, he played like a helmetless ugly Manny Malhotra.
So Bourque scores to make it 5-4, and the West is trying frantically to tie it up. There's a faceoff in the Eastern zone in the waning seconds, and MacLean sends MacTavish out to take the faceoff and preserve the win. They had microphones on the benches, and when that happened, one of the other coaches said, "Dougie knows it's just an exhibition, right?"
Unfortunately, all those tapes have been lost except the 1997 All-Star Game. I'm still not happy about it.
Here is another question--is the current regime undoing the good part of what MacLean did, i.e. building interest in the game and goodwill with fans?
For all Doug's many faults, he was the ultimate salesman. I don't feel like this organization really cares about selling hockey to the masses the way Doug did. To make matters worse, the type of publicity they are generating reflects badly on the organizations and at some point is destroying its goodwill.
Yes, Doug left the Jackets in bad shape. But he left hockey in Central Ohio in much better shape than it was when he arrived and than it might have been if someone who only cared about the on-ice product had been here. Which is part of the reason I often said I'd have been fine if Doug had stayed on as President and resigned as GM. Ironically, he was better at the business of the game than the hardcore businessman we have in there now as President.
Here is another question--is the current regime undoing the good part of what MacLean did, i.e. building interest in the game and goodwill with fans?
For all Doug's many faults, he was the ultimate salesman. I don't feel like this organization really cares about selling hockey to the masses the way Doug did. To make matters worse, the type of publicity they are generating reflects badly on the organizations and at some point is destroying its goodwill.
Yes, Doug left the Jackets in bad shape. But he left hockey in Central Ohio in much better shape than it was when he arrived and than it might have been if someone who only cared about the on-ice product had been here. Which is part of the reason I often said I'd have been fine if Doug had stayed on as President and resigned as GM. Ironically, he was better at the business of the game than the hardcore businessman we have in there now as President.
I think you've hit on something very important, here.
MacLean was a bad GM but a good President, at least he did a weekly radio show and tried to improve the team even though he screwed up almost every trade or draft pick he ever made. He was a hoot to listen to, mingle with when he was walking around the arena and a damn fun used car salesman... Oh, his teams never ended up 30th in the league either...
Priest/Howson might be the worst combo in the NHL over the last 5 seasons...
Does anyone feel after watching the "presser" yesterday that Howson looked defeated because maybe he wanted to accept one of the deals on the table for Nash, but Patrick overruled him???
Does anyone feel after watching the "presser" yesterday that Howson looked defeated because maybe he wanted to accept one of the deals on the table for Nash, but Patrick overruled him???
If he was overruled we can't be sure it was Patrick, I'm betting Priest was at least peaking through the key hole with a cell phone to his mouth.
Good lord. I can't believe that everyone is all over Howson.
1st. In order to have high expectations, you must have done something right in order to craft a roster that people felt would meet these expectations.
2nd. He has tried to address the team needs, (which by most fans was d and center). He did that in a big way last off season -with few UFAs worth a darn. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE READILY AVAILABLE.
If I had polled every CBJ fan on this baord about getting a dman or a goalie via free agency last summer, everyone would have gone with DMAN. He got the best of the bunch available. Fans were a little worried about Mason, and the guy has completely blown his carear this year - but lets not forget that his rookie year he got the jackets into the playoffs and most fans were hoping he would get back to that level.
If I had polled every CBJ fan in the summer if getting Carter was a good idea. EVERYONE HERE WOULD HAVE SAID YES. Would have created two ballance scoring lines w/ Carter on 1 and Nash on the other.
Too much damn high sight around here. It absolutly blows my mind.
Yes Howson has blown the Nash thing.
But, beyond that he has been pretty decent. Getting JJ (a legit 1st pairing dman) and a mid 1st rounder for Carter was pretty good. And if you look at everything as whole (getting JJ and the 10-14th pick for Voracek and the 8th) you have to think most of the CBJ fans would have taken that last year. Heck most of the LA fans would have insisted on more coming back to them.
Getting Nikitin was a pretty savy move.
YOU NOW HAVE PROSPECTS IN THE SYSTEM. Something that never happened under MacLean. You are developing those prospects into players - again something that never happened under McClean.
This teams suffers from first and foremost injuries at the beginning of the season. Carter was out for a prolonged period - 2 games into the season, JW was out the 1st 8 games due to suspension and after by injuries. Both of these issues hurt the team in a big way and prevented them from getting some positive forward momentum.
Finally, you play in the toughest division in hockey. BAR NONE. The Blues are on the rise, the Preds are always tough, many annalyst thought the Hawks would pass the Wings this year, and the Wings are the Wings....
This is coming from a Blues fan. It think the team has come so far in the past 4 years it is unreal. And most of that is due to Howson. Yes, he isn't perfect, but all GMs make mistakes.
Good lord. I can't believe that everyone is all over Howson.
1st. In order to have high expectations, you must have done something right in order to craft a roster that people felt would meet these expectations.
2nd. He has tried to address the team needs, (which by most fans was d and center). He did that in a big way last off season -with few UFAs worth a darn. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE READILY AVAILABLE.
If I had polled every CBJ fan on this baord about getting a dman or a goalie via free agency last summer, everyone would have gone with DMAN. He got the best of the bunch available. Fans were a little worried about Mason, and the guy has completely blown his carear this year - but lets not forget that his rookie year he got the jackets into the playoffs and most fans were hoping he would get back to that level.
If I had polled every CBJ fan in the summer if getting Carter was a good idea. EVERYONE HERE WOULD HAVE SAID YES. Would have created two ballance scoring lines w/ Carter on 1 and Nash on the other.
Too much damn high sight around here. It absolutly blows my mind.
Yes Howson has blown the Nash thing.
But, beyond that he has been pretty decent. Getting JJ (a legit 1st pairing dman) and a mid 1st rounder for Carter was pretty good. And if you look at everything as whole (getting JJ and the 10-14th pick for Voracek and the 8th) you have to think most of the CBJ fans would have taken that last year. Heck most of the LA fans would have insisted on more coming back to them.
Getting Nikitin was a pretty savy move.
YOU NOW HAVE PROSPECTS IN THE SYSTEM. Something that never happened under MacLean. You are developing those prospects into players - again something that never happened under McClean.
This teams suffers from first and foremost injuries at the beginning of the season. Carter was out for a prolonged period - 2 games into the season, JW was out the 1st 8 games due to suspension and after by injuries. Both of these issues hurt the team in a big way and prevented them from getting some positive forward momentum.
Finally, you play in the toughest division in hockey. BAR NONE. The Blues are on the rise, the Preds are always tough, many annalyst thought the Hawks would pass the Wings this year, and the Wings are the Wings....
This is coming from a Blues fan. It think the team has come so far in the past 4 years it is unreal. And most of that is due to Howson. Yes, he isn't perfect, but all GMs make mistakes.
Good evening Mr. Priest.
__________________
"I don't think I'll live long enough to forgive Howson for knocking off my rose colored glasses. He's a horrible, wretched, little stinker of a man. I just hope he wakes up in the morning and can't poop." -CBJCougar (on the Klesla trade), March 23, 2011
But, beyond that he has been pretty decent. Getting JJ (a legit 1st pairing dman) and a mid 1st rounder for Carter was pretty good. And if you look at everything as whole (getting JJ and the 10-14th pick for Voracek and the 8th) you have to think most of the CBJ fans would have taken that last year. Heck most of the LA fans would have insisted on more coming back to them.
Minor point of correction on an otherwise solid post. The Kings' first-rounder is for 2012 only if they make the playoffs, otherwise it automatically defers to next year. So it'll be somewhere between 15-24. Obviously we're all hoping for the Kings to make it by a single point and get quickly bounced.
This is the second such deal. When Adam Foote was sent back to Denver, the first-round pick sent back had the same condition. Colorado got in, and Columbus got the 19th pick. The next year, when they missed the playoffs, it would have been the 3rd overall pick (Matt Duchene).
I'd still rather have this year's pick though. LA's problems seem to be a result of the system rather than lack of talent, and I don't think there's any chance they miss the playoffs next year if there's a coaching change.
He has tried to address the team needs, (which by most fans was d and center). He did that in a big way last off season -with few UFAs worth a darn. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE READILY AVAILABLE.
He waited 5 years to address a Day 1 need. He didn't bother to address an obvious whole in teh goaltending last off-season...unless you thought Dexy and the Midnight Runners was going to be our #1. Mason's rookie year was some time ago. I don't think most fans were deluded enough to believe he'd ever get back their by last summer. Howson was.
I'm not going to go back and rehash this with an interloper from the Blues board. I think everyone on here has heard me shoot down each of your remaining points about a thousand times.
Do yourself a favor--ask your coach what HE thinks of our GM.
Minor point of correction on an otherwise solid post. The Kings' first-rounder is for 2012 only if they make the playoffs, otherwise it automatically defers to next year. So it'll be somewhere between 15-24. Obviously we're all hoping for the Kings to make it by a single point and get quickly bounced.
This is the second such deal. When Adam Foote was sent back to Denver, the first-round pick sent back had the same condition. Colorado got in, and Columbus got the 19th pick. The next year, when they missed the playoffs, it would have been the 3rd overall pick (Matt Duchene).
I'd still rather have this year's pick though. LA's problems seem to be a result of the system rather than lack of talent, and I don't think there's any chance they miss the playoffs next year if there's a coaching change.
I don't think LA likely misses the playoffs next year either. BUT, if you are asking what we are hoping for...
It's for the Kings to miss this year by a point and then come dead last next year after the locker room implodes. Not only does that mean no playoffs for Carter, but when the Jackets land MacKinnon it will make everyone forget about that Kessel trade someone made.
I don't think LA likely misses the playoffs next year either. BUT, if you are asking what we are hoping for...
It's for the Kings to miss this year by a point and then come dead last next year after the locker room implodes. Not only does that mean no playoffs for Carter, but when the Jackets land MacKinnon it will make everyone forget about that Kessel trade someone made.
A guy can dream...
If you want to dream, you might as well envision the scenario where I become owner/GM. Dream big or go home.
Oh, his teams never ended up 30th in the league either...
