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[EDM/MIN] Tom Gilbert Traded For Nick Schultz - Part 2

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02-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #301
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I can accept the use of struggling but declining? There isn't really any proof to make that a fact.

If so then Gilbert's "improvements" this year can be chalked up to it being a one-time deal and him playing over his head.
Gilberts had a lot of good years on this club. Read his bio

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02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
  #302
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By then we'll have another sexy draft pick to ease the pain.

The question being is how many top picks do we need to start climbing out of the basement and when will this ever occur.
If we keep putting the odd win together like we have post-all-star break, we could easily be out of the lottery come the end of the year. Then what will you have to say about making improvements? Right now we are on pace to finish with 10 more points than last year. That is a solid improvement for not adding much to the team.

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02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by CanadianCommie View Post
The defined-roles element is i think a big point to this trade. Schultz and smid will do the heavy lifting (with a cameo appearance by whitney and sutton here and there) and Petry, potter and Whitney will be leaned on to keep the puck moving (with barker hopefully not tripping over his own laces when he's called upon to do so as well).

we won't know if, as a unit, they'll work better with schultz than with gilbert until some games are played and pairings solidified.



which is why...presumably...he's being paired with someone who does have at least some history as PMD (whitney tonight).
You calling Potter a PMD is like me calling Shawn Horcoff a prolific Scorer.

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02-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #304
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Gilberts had a lot of good years on this club. Read his bio
"good years"? What exactly does that mean? Lots of secondary assists?

I would read his bio but I'm afraid it will be much like his blog and go on and on about his shoe collection.

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02-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #305
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You calling Potter a PMD is like me calling Shawn Horcoff a prolific Scorer.
His passing ability it's pretty similar to Gilbert, who IMO was not that great at passing

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02-29-2012, 01:58 PM
  #306
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I've always been a fan of keeping the puck out of your net by keeping it 200 feet the other way.



So why'd they get a d-zone specialist?
Better to have a guy like Schultz whos MO is to take the puck away from the opposing team than a guy like Gilbert who is near the league leaders in giveaways most years. You need to get the puck first.

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02-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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You calling Potter a PMD is like me calling Shawn Horcoff a prolific Scorer.
Potter is a fantastic GA disaster in the making. Tambos vision of D improvement and complete with quick contract extension.

Somehwo in Tambos mind we need Potter, Barker, Sutton, Peckham, we don't need Gilbert..

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02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Except that Schultz was bleeding more goals than Tom this year. For instance in similar minutes played Schultz gave up 19 pk GA. Gilbert gave up 12.

It would be nice if the statements like "better shutdown d" fit. I would actually like that.

But unfortunately the numbers say something else. Gilbert was a more physical player, and better pK player this year. For some reasn with these improvements in his game we trade him for somebody struggling and declining.
It's difficult comparing two different styled players in two different systems/teams. So IMO it's kind of a weak argument. I just need to see the guy play on our team.

The truth for me is, I respect Gilbert for what he has done as an Oiler; but Schultz is now an Oiler and we can't really change anything.

Also, I am quite nervous for this tonight's game. Regardless of how well/terrible Schultz plays tonight, I believe there will be backlash due to everyone's emotions. This thread will be busy.

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02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
  #309
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His passing ability it's pretty similar to Gilbert, who IMO was not that great at passing
Noted, but I disagree. He was the second best passer on this club after Whitney.

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02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
You calling Potter a PMD is like me calling Shawn Horcoff a prolific Scorer.

I didn't say he was very good at it, just that's his role down there on the 3rd pairing most nights.

I looked at the game logs for february and noticed a few things


-Petry has played nearly twice as much PK time as Gilbert has -Petry throughout february has had better PP TOI and a better overall TOI than Gilbert
-Petry has a better +/- and been more productive

it's pretty obvious that Petry had replaced gilbert.

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02-29-2012, 02:01 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Except that Schultz was bleeding more goals than Tom this year. For instance in similar minutes played Schultz gave up 19 pk GA. Gilbert gave up 12.

It would be nice if the statements like "better shutdown d" fit. I would actually like that.

But unfortunately the numbers say something else. Gilbert was a more physical player, and better pK player this year. For some reasn with these improvements in his game we trade him for somebody struggling and declining.
Gilbert - 2.44 GA/60
Schultz - 2.00 GA/60

I loathe to use unit derived stats for individual analysis, but the truth is that Schultz does not bleed more goals against than Tom Gilbert.

As for the PK numbers, the advanced stats when looked at for an individual are even more skewed. Let's actually see Schultz play a game or two before chucking him under the bus.

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02-29-2012, 02:03 PM
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I look at it as we lost a piece that we could have used on an upgrade. I mean if your trading for Seabrook or Hanzal the drop down to Gilbert would hurt but not so much that it couldn't have been made up by another player in the deal. If that makes sense?
I certainly see where you're coming from. I think we value Gilbert at different levels, but that's the fun of talking sports.

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02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
  #313
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What does PMD stand for?

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02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
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No we don't, we need the exact opposite but management has there heads up there collective *****.
You're saying we don't need vast improvement in our own end?

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02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
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Based on what and starting from when?
Don't let the capitalized IMO confuse you now...

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02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
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I look at it as we lost a piece that we could have used on an upgrade. I mean if your trading for Seabrook or Hanzal the drop down to Gilbert would hurt but not so much that it couldn't have been made up by another player in the deal. If that makes sense?
Thats a cool story bro. But Seabrook and Hanzal are not and will not be available any time soon. You keep on throwing out random players names but have no realistic suggestion on how Tambellini should acquire said players. It is pretty easy to argue that we should have traded Omark and Gilbert for Seabrook, but the reality is that it wasnt possible.

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02-29-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
What does PMD stand for?
puck moving defensemen

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02-29-2012, 02:07 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Except that Schultz was bleeding more goals than Tom this year. For instance in similar minutes played Schultz gave up 19 pk GA. Gilbert gave up 12.

It would be nice if the statements like "better shutdown d" fit. I would actually like that.

But unfortunately the numbers say something else. Gilbert was a more physical player, and better pK player this year. For some reasn with these improvements in his game we trade him for somebody struggling and declining.
Oh come now Replacement...it's a team game isn't it? You might as well use +/-

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02-29-2012, 02:08 PM
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puck moving defensemen
Oh that makes sense lol. Thanks.

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02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
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Gilberts had a lot of good years on this club. Read his bio
Except for his +/-

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02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
You're saying we don't need vast improvement in our own end?
I'm saying we need better puck
movers. I don't know how many times I've seen our forwards have to circle at the blue line waiting for a pass this year. Also would be nice to add another defensive dman but I would have preferred to keep Gilbert.

Something like

Gilbert-Whitney
Carle-Smid
Petry-Sutton
Potter

Is what I would have liked to see.

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02-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Thats a cool story bro. But Seabrook and Hanzal are not and will not be available any time soon. You keep on throwing out random players names but have no realistic suggestion on how Tambellini should acquire said players. It is pretty easy to argue that we should have traded Omark and Gilbert for Seabrook, but the reality is that it wasnt possible.
You don't think Chicago at least listens to a Gilbert+Gagner offer for Seabrook? I'm just throwing out random names as an example. The fact is we moved one of our better trading chips for quite possibly a downgrade.

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02-29-2012, 02:17 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
Gilbert - 2.44 GA/60
Schultz - 2.00 GA/60

I loathe to use unit derived stats for individual analysis, but the truth is that Schultz does not bleed more goals against than Tom Gilbert.

As for the PK numbers, the advanced stats when looked at for an individual are even more skewed. Let's actually see Schultz play a game or two before chucking him under the bus.
Schultz -10, Gilbert -4. Even on EV, Gilbert has made the better contribution.

Nobodies chucking anybody under the bus. But the notion that Schultz is immediately better than Gilbert as shutdown play is misleading. Its something the MSM, and this board have been foisting. I'm not sure where that is from as no numbers deem that out.

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02-29-2012, 02:20 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Schultz -10, Gilbert -4. Even on EV, Gilbert has made the better contribution.

Nobodies chucking anybody under the bus. But the notion that Schultz is immediately better than Gilbert as shutdown play is misleading. Its something the MSM, and this board have been foisting. I'm not sure where that is from as no numbers deem that out.
You know +/- isn't a good indicator. Why are you continuing to use this stat? The wild were bottom 4 in goal differential at -28. The oilers middle of the pack -17. Also the wild are a sinking ship they've won like 7 games since December

It's funny bc you were the one that pointed out Gilbert was not at fault for the goal that scandella gave away. Yet he was on the ice and thus -1


Last edited by awesomo: 02-29-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
Don't let the capitalized IMO confuse you now...
What your opinion isn't based on any particular reasons?

Good to know for future reference.

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