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[EDM/MIN] Tom Gilbert Traded For Nick Schultz - Part 2

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02-29-2012, 09:40 AM
  #151
Little Fury
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The only picture that will emerge is whether this exercise is successful or not.
That's nonsense. The past may not be a surefire indicator of the future, but it gives you a clue. You might not want to see where some of the arrows are pointing, but they're there if you look.

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If it fails then you are absolutely correct but do you really want it to fail?
No, but then I'll at least get to say I told you so.

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I can't think that you hate these guys so much that you want it to fail so utterly in the hopes that they may get fired?
Get it straight: I want them to get fired because I don't want this to fail.

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02-29-2012, 09:42 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Katz and Lowe clearly, the Owner and VP or whatever promoted title Lowe has, indicated that they are blowing this thing up and are rebuilding from scratch, they did this in the '09-'10 offseason directly before the Hall draft so yes, it was announced publicly.
So after they took over from the previous management team that guided them into last place, then?

Wait, what?

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02-29-2012, 09:43 AM
  #153
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yet Tambo has an NHL job and you don't. hmmmm wonder who is the daft one?
With contributions like this I think you have answered your own question.

I am sure you would find a way to defend Mike Milbury's body of work.

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02-29-2012, 09:44 AM
  #154
joestevens29
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I'm amazed that I keep seeing this name. Short memories, I guess. Imagine the carve job on management if they aquired Grebs and he played exactly as expected.
If you shelter him it's not that bad.

Our d while Grebs was here was brutal, it was either too young or too offensive minded. With Schultz, Sutton and Smid there is some balance back there and Grebs won't be counted on playing for 21 minutes a night.

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02-29-2012, 09:44 AM
  #155
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yet Tambo has an NHL job and you don't. hmmmm wonder who is the daft one?
The guy who hired him?

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02-29-2012, 09:46 AM
  #156
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So after they took over from the previous management team that guided them into last place, then?

Wait, what?
They admitted that things didn't work how they initially planned get over it. They could've just went out after drafting Hall and continued to make bad signings and trades for a quick fix.

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02-29-2012, 09:47 AM
  #157
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If you shelter him it's not that bad.

Our d while Grebs was here was brutal, it was either too young or too offensive minded. With Schultz, Sutton and Smid there is some balance back there and Grebs won't be counted on playing for 21 minutes a night.
Haven't they reached the point in time where they need to start looking for more of a sure thing than getting guys that hopefully could work under the right circumstances?

I liked Grebeshkov but the guy's been out of NHL for a couple years now, time to move on.

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02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Haven't they reached the point in time where they need to start looking for more of a sure thing than getting guys that hopefully could work under the right circumstances?

I liked Grebeshkov but the guy's been out of NHL for a couple years now, time to move on.
There is no sure things when you sign free agents.

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02-29-2012, 09:52 AM
  #159
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There is no sure things when you sign free agents.
More of a sure thing...

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02-29-2012, 09:55 AM
  #160
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More of a sure thing...
Realistically there aren't a lot of options this year. Maybe we get lucky and get a Carle or Wideman, but if come July 3rd those guys are gone I don't see an issue with trying Grebeshkov at a 1/3 of the price and a lot less years.

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02-29-2012, 09:56 AM
  #161
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I'm amazed that I keep seeing this name. Short memories, I guess. Imagine the carve job on management if they aquired Grebs and he played exactly as expected.
Or maybe more accurate memories?

Grebeshkov did make the occasional boneheaded play, but most of the time he was actually pretty solid. I ask you, is that worse than just being mediocre all the time?

Grebeshkov actually led the Oilers in +/- one season and his 39 points is probably more than any of our D this year will get.

I'd take him back if his salary was reasonable.

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02-29-2012, 09:58 AM
  #162
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Realistically there aren't a lot of options this year. Maybe we get lucky and get a Carle or Wideman, but if come July 3rd those guys are gone I don't see an issue with trying Grebeshkov at a 1/3 of the price and a lot less years.
Maybe the strategy would need to shift to trading for one then?

Actually maybe they need to focus on the trade route from the get go and forget the free agent route.

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02-29-2012, 10:00 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
They admitted that things didn't work how they initially planned get over it. They could've just went out after drafting Hall and continued to make bad signings and trades for a quick fix.
Except their signings so far have continued to be poor in service of the suck.

Nikolai Khabibulin, Kurtis Foster, Patrick O’Sullivan, Colin Fraser, Eric Belanger (more the contract than the player), Jim Vandermeer, Cam Barker, Andy Sutton (see Belanger comment)...

They've shown precious little aptitude for bringing in the kind of complimentary players you need to surround pieces like RNH, Hall and Eberle with to succeed in this league. Given that that is now the Oilers' biggest issue, I'd expect people to be a little less sanguine about management's ability to start doing so next year (or is it the year after?).

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02-29-2012, 10:02 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
So after they took over from the previous management team that guided them into last place, then?

Wait, what?
Yeah and you know how they got to last place in the first place. That's riiiight, by using the quick fix method that you so much adore so they decide to try a different route.
I hate to break it to ya, but this is a rebuild so one or two last place finishes was likely going into it and that is exactly what has happened and just now are we starting to see the team show some real live progress, it seems to me like things are going according to plan. Next season will be even more important now for the team to at the very least play some meaningful games in February and March.

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02-29-2012, 10:04 AM
  #165
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Maybe the strategy would need to shift to trading for one then?

Actually maybe they need to focus on the trade route from the get go and forget the free agent route.
I would be fine with that too, doesn't hurt to have backup plans though. Grebeshkov is the type of guy that you probably can sign late July early August.

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02-29-2012, 10:06 AM
  #166
Joe Hallenback
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
That's nonsense. The past may not be a surefire indicator of the future, but it gives you a clue. You might not want to see where some of the arrows are pointing, but they're there if you look.



No, but then I'll at least get to say I told you so.



Get it straight: I want them to get fired because I don't want this to fail.
I would rather remain optimistic that Oilers are getting better as a team. Like I said and will continue to say the point of the exercise will be IF they are better next year and the year after that.

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02-29-2012, 10:06 AM
  #167
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Except their signings so far have continued to be poor in service of the suck.

Nikolai Khabibulin, Kurtis Foster, Patrick O’Sullivan, Colin Fraser, Eric Belanger (more the contract than the player), Jim Vandermeer, Cam Barker, Andy Sutton (see Belanger comment)...

They've shown precious little aptitude for bringing in the kind of complimentary players you need to surround pieces like RNH, Hall and Eberle with to succeed in this league. Given that that is now the Oilers' biggest issue, I'd expect people to be a little less sanguine about management's ability to start doing so next year (or is it the year after?).
Belanger, Eager, Sutton, Petrell, Jones, Smyth are all pretty good complimentary players. Vandermeer was a decent bottom pairing guy as well.

You ever think that management didn't exactly want to change over night and that a few years of draft picks is what ST's plan was all along?

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02-29-2012, 10:07 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
The problem as I see isn't the contract...its an expectation that the player will anchor the defence. That for me was the issue. If Tambo wants to take a flyer on a former 1st round pick who is 25 years old and struggled for 2 straight seasons thats fine. Play him in the bottom pairing and let him earn his ice time. Don't try to fit him into the top 4 (or top 2 in this case) and attempt to convince everyone he is a top 2 dman.
There is taking a flyer and then there is flat out stupidity.
Exactly.

Nevermind fitting him in anywhere until after you've invited him to camp and figured out if he knows what he is doing out there.

He basically ended up making what he would have made had he been claimed off waivers from Minny.

So, Tambo, literally waited until 29 other teams had (through their inaction) said they would NOT pay Barker 2.25MM & then stepped up and said: "But I will!!!"

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02-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #169
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Yeah and you know how they got to last place in the first place. That's riiiight, by using the quick fix method that you so much adore so they decide to try a different route.
Nice strawman. Anyway, the issue isn't whether rebuilding was the right choice, but whether or not these guys are the right bunch to finish the job.

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I hate to break it to ya, but this is a rebuild so one or two last place finishes was likely going into it and that is exactly what has happened and just now are we starting to see the team show some real live progress, it seems to me like things are going according to plan.
You'd expect there to be some progress after adding the likes of Hall and RNH and the emergence of Eberle.

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Next season will be even more important now for the team to at the very least play some meaningful games in February and March.
Yeah, maybe they can finish in 25th next season!

Here's a question for you: can you identify ways in which Tambellini has actively made the Oilers better beyond walking up to the podium at the draft three years running? I just want to know where the faith in this guy and his boss is coming from.

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02-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #170
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The guy who hired him?
You mean the same guy who signed the Horcoff contract? Overpaid Moreau, Pisani, Staios, etc.

The one who gave out the Vanek offer sheet?

The one who traded away Ryan Smyth for Robert Nilsson, Ryan O'Marra and a draft pick?

The guy who gave away Joni Pitkanen for Erik Cole?

The guy who created so many holes by wildly flailing after whatever seemed like the biggest problem at the time?

The guy who always seems to save at least one or two spots for members of the old boys club whether or not they show any talent for coaching or scouting?

The guy who signed and created the Souray situation?


Tambo has been rather slow and deliberate but I'll take that over the mess we had with Lowe by the end. I think taking a stab at Barker was worth it since it was no risk but it's become pretty clear that he's not a guy who will put up 45 points or was worthy of being drafted 3rd overall.

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02-29-2012, 10:17 AM
  #171
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Belanger, Eager, Sutton, Petrell, Jones, Smyth are all pretty good complimentary players. Vandermeer was a decent bottom pairing guy as well.

You ever think that management didn't exactly want to change over night and that a few years of draft picks is what ST's plan was all along?
I was for Belanger and Eager, indifferent on Sutton, Smyth was a gift, Jones and Petrell are place holders so I don't know if there is a lot of praise for those guys, Hemsky - in the end was the right call, guys like Potter and Barker and how they handled PRV and Lander were poor. I didn't mind Vandermeer but how do you give credit for that one if they didn't keep him. His early moves - when he was trying to compete - were absolutely god aweful and it's a leap of faith to assume he has those bad decisions out of his system now.

All in all I would say that he seems to be getting better but there is still alot to be concerned about. Hell even the whole notion that Gagner was being offered around then after his 8 point game he is apparently off the table, followed by Hemsky being shopped and then signed. For a guy that takes his time to the point of being painful, it's almost inexplicable as to how wishy washy he still comes off.

Still don't think he is the guy to see this thing through to the end, the contract extension will be tough to see.

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02-29-2012, 10:21 AM
  #172
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You mean the same guy who signed the Horcoff contract? Overpaid Moreau, Pisani, Staios, etc.

The one who gave out the Vanek offer sheet?

The one who traded away Ryan Smyth for Robert Nilsson, Ryan O'Marra and a draft pick?

The guy who gave away Joni Pitkanen for Erik Cole?

The guy who created so many holes by wildly flailing after whatever seemed like the biggest problem at the time?

The guy who always seems to save at least one or two spots for members of the old boys club whether or not they show any talent for coaching or scouting?

The guy who signed and created the Souray situation?


Tambo has been rather slow and deliberate but I'll take that over the mess we had with Lowe by the end. I think taking a stab at Barker was worth it since it was no risk but it's become pretty clear that he's not a guy who will put up 45 points or was worthy of being drafted 3rd overall.
Yup pretty much, with the exception of creating the Souray mess, I maintain the decision to hire Tambellini was the worst move he made as the guy in charge.

I would still take him as GM over Tambellini though.

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02-29-2012, 10:25 AM
  #173
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You ever think that management didn't exactly want to change over night and that a few years of draft picks is what ST's plan was all along?
That's really not much of a plan. We could have had no GM at all and accomplished the same thing.

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02-29-2012, 10:28 AM
  #174
joestevens29
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I was for Belanger and Eager, indifferent on Sutton, Smyth was a gift, Jones and Petrell are place holders so I don't know if there is a lot of praise for those guys, Hemsky - in the end was the right call, guys like Potter and Barker and how they handled PRV and Lander were poor. I didn't mind Vandermeer but how do you give credit for that one if they didn't keep him. His early moves - when he was trying to compete - were absolutely god aweful and it's a leap of faith to assume he has those bad decisions out of his system now.

All in all I would say that he seems to be getting better but there is still alot to be concerned about. Hell even the whole notion that Gagner was being offered around then after his 8 point game he is apparently off the table, followed by Hemsky being shopped and then signed. For a guy that takes his time to the point of being painful, it's almost inexplicable as to how wishy washy he still comes off.

Still don't think he is the guy to see this thing through to the end, the contract extension will be tough to see.
Here's the problem if you are going to crap on ST for Barker who is a place holder then you give him credit for the place holders that work. Belanger and Eager are place holders too.

I think people tend to forget that when going through a rebuild not every move works out. Every team has bad moves.

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02-29-2012, 10:32 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Here's the problem if you are going to crap on ST for Barker who is a place holder then you give him credit for the place holders that work. Belanger and Eager are place holders too.

I think people tend to forget that when going through a rebuild not every move works out. Every team has bad moves.
Bad teams tend to have more of them. That's why they're bad.

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