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[EDM/MIN] Tom Gilbert Traded For Nick Schultz - Part 2

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02-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #176
copperandblue
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Here's the problem if you are going to crap on ST for Barker who is a place holder then you give him credit for the place holders that work. Belanger and Eager are place holders too.
Why is it a problem to crap on him for Barker?

His job is to make the right decision.

Besides, aknowledging that I was ok with Belanger and Eager is in no way saying that they were ultimately good calls. It's just pointing out that I was ok with the moves at the time...as a fan...with (believe it or not) a full time job and responsibilities that in no way are associated with the Oilers and resources that come with them.

See what I am getting at here?

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02-29-2012, 10:39 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Like I said at the time...a 2.25MM "flyer" is absolutley insane & all 5 flavors of stupid.

When you have an owner with deep pockets, a very young developing team that is still in the infancy of it's rebuild, no other quality UFA's willing to come here unless they're vastly overpaid, and a crapload of cap room, it's not as horrific as you make it sound.

Barker has been bad, but it's not like we could have gone out signed Weber instead. If you're going to take chances on players like that, these are the times you do it. They also took a chance on Eager and after a slow start, I have some decent hope for him.

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02-29-2012, 10:42 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I think that's the jist of it. I would have rather seen us add another 1.25 and go after Hamrlik.


Are you serious? Hamrlik is Barker's ******** twin.

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02-29-2012, 10:42 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Why is it a problem to crap on him for Barker?

His job is to make the right decision.

Besides, aknowledging that I was ok with Belanger and Eager is in no way saying that they were ultimately good calls. It's just pointing out that I was ok with the moves at the time...as a fan...with (believe it or not) a full time job and responsibilities that in no way are associated with the Oilers and resources that come with them.

See what I am getting at here?
I must've mis-read. I thought you weren't giving credit for place holders.

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02-29-2012, 10:45 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If you shelter him it's not that bad.

Our d while Grebs was here was brutal, it was either too young or too offensive minded. With Schultz, Sutton and Smid there is some balance back there and Grebs won't be counted on playing for 21 minutes a night.
Maybe. I think rookies that need to be sheltered are okay, veterans, not so much.

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02-29-2012, 10:46 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
You just proved my point about posters/fanboys/bloggers who have a vendetta against Oiler management and will go out of there way to piss all over any move. It isn't about if the actual hockey trade it is about people's personal motives about the Oiler management.

You nailed it, Joe.

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02-29-2012, 10:46 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Why is it a problem to crap on him for Barker?

His job is to make the right decision.

Besides, aknowledging that I was ok with Belanger and Eager is in no way saying that they were ultimately good calls. It's just pointing out that I was ok with the moves at the time...as a fan...with (believe it or not) a full time job and responsibilities that in no way are associated with the Oilers and resources that come with them.

See what I am getting at here?
You ***** about how much money they pay him and then go on to say this?

Edit: sorry, that wasn't you. Nevermind.

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02-29-2012, 10:48 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
When you have an owner with deep pockets, a very young developing team that is still in the infancy of it's rebuild, no other quality UFA's willing to come here unless they're vastly overpaid, and a crapload of cap room, it's not as horrific as you make it sound.

Barker has been bad, but it's not like we could have gone out signed Weber instead. If you're going to take chances on players like that, these are the times you do it. They also took a chance on Eager and after a slow start, I have some decent hope for him.
That's one way to look at it. The other is that they have no clue how to evaluate players.

Anyway, at what point do we stop making excuses for crap moves and see the pattern they contain?

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02-29-2012, 10:49 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
Or maybe more accurate memories?

Grebeshkov did make the occasional boneheaded play, but most of the time he was actually pretty solid. I ask you, is that worse than just being mediocre all the time?

Grebeshkov actually led the Oilers in +/- one season and his 39 points is probably more than any of our D this year will get.

I'd take him back if his salary was reasonable.
It could be that my memory is bad then, because I don't remember him as playing solid. His absence from the nhl seems to support my memory.

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02-29-2012, 10:51 AM
  #185
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What day did they announce the rebuild? Was there a proclamation at city hall?

Furthermore: what evidence is there this rebuild was Tambo's baby and not the child of circumstances created by their own bumbling?

Finally, for the sake of argument, let's say they haven't made any "horrendous" decisions. They have made a host of bone-headed, small time ****-ups that may not sink the ship but nonetheless give us some insight into how they do business. The picture that emerges ain't pretty.

As a STH, I attended one of the June luncheons, right before the Taylor Hall draft, hosted by the Oilers, where they spoke about the arena project and the team. And Tambellini spoke then that they were going to change things around, do a rebuild with youth, and develop their own. This was stated very publicly at that time.

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02-29-2012, 10:51 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
When you have an owner with deep pockets, a very young developing team that is still in the infancy of it's rebuild, no other quality UFA's willing to come here unless they're vastly overpaid, and a crapload of cap room, it's not as horrific as you make it sound.

Barker has been bad, but it's not like we could have gone out signed Weber instead.
The argument that it's ok to make a bad decision because good decisions weren't available isn't logical.

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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
If you're going to take chances on players like that, these are the times you do it. They also took a chance on Eager and after a slow start, I have some decent hope for him.
Alot of people would argue that these early decisions are when it's more critical.

If you have a good team you can more easily navagate around a poor player decision, similar to being better positioned to handle injuries.

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02-29-2012, 10:54 AM
  #187
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Maybe. I think rookies that need to be sheltered are okay, veterans, not so much.
It's not even about sheltering as much as playing him in a more suited role. While here he was playing 2+ minutes of PK and 17+ minutes of ES time. Take away the PK time and that alone make Grebeshkov a better d-man.

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02-29-2012, 10:55 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
The argument that it's ok to make a bad decision because good decisions weren't available isn't logical.



Alot of people would argue that these early decisions are when it's more critical.

If you have a good team you can more easily navagate around a poor player decision, similar to being better positioned to handle injuries.

The point is, every manager out there makes good and bad decisions. We have a lot of young dmen in the system right now, that are clearly not ready to help us yet. You need to bridge a gap short term with others. Sutton was a good decision IMO. Potter was okay. Barker was a disaster. **** happens. It's not the end of the world, just one year.

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02-29-2012, 10:57 AM
  #189
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It could be that my memory is bad then, because I don't remember him as playing solid. His absence from the nhl seems to support my memory.
Grebs was great under Huddy after he left it was a ****show all the time.

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02-29-2012, 10:57 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Exactly.

Nevermind fitting him in anywhere until after you've invited him to camp and figured out if he knows what he is doing out there.

He basically ended up making what he would have made had he been claimed off waivers from Minny.

So, Tambo, literally waited until 29 other teams had (through their inaction) said they would NOT pay Barker 2.25MM & then stepped up and said: "But I will!!!"
To be fair though the same scenario happened with Souray and word is that Dallas is quite happy with his contribution. So I guess it is possible for a player to turn things around and Barker did have time on his side being he is only 25.

I think it was copperandblue that posted about being too committed to a wager. Thats what I think happened with Barker and thats what I take issue with more than anything.

The same thing appears to have happened with Khabby although there are reports that Tambo wanted Anderson and was over ruled.
If true that throws into question how much autonomy Tambo actually has in his decision making.

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02-29-2012, 11:01 AM
  #191
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Some folks ***** that Tambellini sits on his ass and never makes any hockey trades. Then he does one, that at least on the surface, fills a distinct need, and riot squad is out. Darn, if he could have just traded Barker for Shea Weber.

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02-29-2012, 11:02 AM
  #192
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Are you serious? Hamrlik is Barker's ******** twin.
What? Hamrlik would have easily been in our top 4 to start the year. And signing him probably would have prevented us from trading our top minute d man. On top of that Hamrlik has more pro experience then anyone on our roster.

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02-29-2012, 11:05 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
The point is, every manager out there makes good and bad decisions.
Is Tambellini's ratio acceptable?

To date I maintain no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
We have a lot of young dmen in the system right now, that are clearly not ready to help us yet. You need to bridge a gap short term with others. Sutton was a good decision IMO. Potter was okay. Barker was a disaster. **** happens. It's not the end of the world, just one year.
I agree with the notion, I disagree with the choices. He had six starting spots with 3 gaps to bridge and I would score his choices as going 1 out of 3.

Potter, particularily after moving Gilbert, is shaping up exactly how I feared it would when he signed his extension (although I didn't think his spot would come attehexpense of Gilbert). Right now he is positioned to be in the starting 6 moving forward and yet he hasn't even looked like an NHLer since returning from his injury or signing his contract. That's not only a suspect initial call, it's a compounded bad call.

I would also contend that the it's 'just one year' is a dangerous motto to cling to.

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02-29-2012, 11:07 AM
  #194
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The same thing appears to have happened with Khabby although there are reports that Tambo wanted Anderson and was over ruled.
Interesting, where did you hear that one?

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02-29-2012, 11:08 AM
  #195
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What? Hamrlik would have easily been in our top 4 to start the year. And signing him probably would have prevented us from trading our top minute d man. On top of that Hamrlik has more pro experience then anyone on our roster.
And you assume that Hamrlik would've signed here?

WSH or EDM. WSH 2 year deal shot at cup, go back to EDM no shot at cup.

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02-29-2012, 11:10 AM
  #196
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Interesting, where did you hear that one?
It's been hinted a few times in the past that ST didn't want Bulin. Gregor was working on finding out if true, but he wasn't sure that he'd get confirmation on this.

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02-29-2012, 11:11 AM
  #197
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That's one way to look at it. The other is that they have no clue how to evaluate players.

Anyway, at what point do we stop making excuses for crap moves and see the pattern they contain?
That's one way to look at it the other is that it wasnt a crap move just one they could take that was unlikely to pay off but every GM in the league is making some of those moves.

Look at Detroit with Quincey. They had the player at one point but lost him to waivers, now they've had to give up a 1st round draft pick to get him back. That looks like bad assest management but I dont think anyone is calling the wings on it because it's just a part of doing business. Sometimes you make moves that dont necessarilly work out, the question is whether you can fix them down the road.

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02-29-2012, 11:14 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
The point is, every manager out there makes good and bad decisions. We have a lot of young dmen in the system right now, that are clearly not ready to help us yet. You need to bridge a gap short term with others. Sutton was a good decision IMO. Potter was okay. Barker was a disaster. **** happens. It's not the end of the world, just one year.
With 2 buyouts already on the book for this year, a brutally aged & overpaid starting goalie with no potential starter behind him and a litany of high priced players trying to come back from serious injuries suffered last season...Tambellini was not in a position to be making any long shots gambles.

Futhermore, Nevermind the philosophical apsects of the Barker signing.

For just a second step back and trust me when I tell you 29 other teams didn't want him. One of which was paying him NOT to play for their team.

I mean...even if the Oilers were in a position where they could make a gamble...it absolutley shouldn't have been a commital of over 2MM in cap space on Barker, specifically.

Because the notion that signing was just "taking a shot" is rather unacceptable given the amount of $$$ he was given.

Clearly they had complete faith in him as a top 4 player. In fact, they still refer to him as such!

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02-29-2012, 11:14 AM
  #199
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Maybe im in the minority but I'm glad that Tambo made a good old fashion hockey trade. For a team bleeding GA's this is a good move. With Whitney and Petry/Potter on our top PP (and maybe even Dumba in the future), Gilbert was expendable. Schultz is better on the PK and 5on5. Not only that but he brings character and emotion to our backend.

You gotta give something to get something.

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02-29-2012, 11:14 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
And you assume that Hamrlik would've signed here?
I don't see why not. He played the majority of his hockey in Canadian markets and has already played here as well as Calgary. I have no way to prove that he would or wouldn't so I'll ask you the same question. Are you assuming he wouldn't? Because given his history he seems to enjoy the Canadian Hockey Markets.

Also it didn't have to be Hamrlik, Tambo could have brought in anyone with over 10 years experience who could fill a top 4 role and I would have been happy. But he goes out and gets a top 2 by his words in Cam Barker.

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