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[EDM/MIN] Tom Gilbert Traded For Nick Schultz - Part 2

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02-29-2012, 11:14 AM
  #201
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Just in response to some distorted claims about what kind of use and success the players had this year some tale of the tape:

Gilbert

3G 14A 17pts

TOI 22.47/G

EV 17.25mins/G 2.44 GA/60mins -4

PK 3.15mins/G 4.85GA/60mins

55hits


Schultz

1G 2A 3pts

TOI 19.35

EV 16.44mins/G 2.00GA/60mins -10

PK 2.33mins/G 6.99GA/60mins

60hits


So what we have above is Gilbert used 3mins more every game, plus Gilbert plays on the PP, and PK, and Schultz only plays on pk. Gilbert clearly has better numbers on the pk this year, is heavily used in that capacity compared to Schultz, and with an easy argument that Gilbert has had the better shutdown pk numbers this year.

Schultz has slightly lower EVGA , although one has to consider that Gilbert contributes some offense EV and Schultz doesn't. Despite giving up slightly more GA at evens Gilbert as noted is -4, and Schultz -10. So arguably Gilbert wins that round as well.

So the performance this season has been Gilbert better on PK, contributes on PP and has been arguably better EV. The hits are the same.

Its debatable who the better shutdown player has been this year. Remember this is the only reason we're bringing Schultz in here.
Gilbert is the more skilled player and with better numbers this year.

Hopefully Schultz steps it up but he's had a rough year.

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02-29-2012, 11:15 AM
  #202
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I don't see why not. He played the majority of his hockey in Canadian markets and has already played here as well as Calgary. I have no way to prove that he would or wouldn't so I'll ask you the same question. Are you assuming he wouldn't? Because given his history he seems to enjoy the Canadian Hockey Markets.

Also it didn't have to be Hamrlik, Tambo could have brought in anyone with over 10 years experience who could fill a top 4 role and I would have been happy. But he goes out and gets a top 2 by his words in Cam Barker.
If you want I'm sure komisarek will be there for practically nothing

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02-29-2012, 11:17 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
With 2 buyouts already on the book for this year, a brutally aged & overpaid starting goalie with no potential starter behind him and a litany of high priced players trying to come back from serious injuries suffered last season...Tambellini was not in a position to be making any long shots gambles.

Futhermore, Nevermind the philosophical apsects of the Barker signing.

For just a second step back and trust me when I tell you 29 other teams didn't want him. One of which was paying him NOT to play for their team.

I mean...even if the Oilers were in a position where they could make a gamble...it absolutley shouldn't have been a commital of over 2MM in cap space on Barker, specifically.

Because the notion that signing was just "taking a shot" is rather unacceptable given the amount of $$$ he was given.

Clearly they had complete faith in him as a top 4 player. In fact, they still refer to him as such!
I guess you don't like Lamerrielo either. 4 buyouts, no future goalie and multiple high priced players that under perform or are injured.

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02-29-2012, 11:20 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
If you want I'm sure komisarek will be there for practically nothing
Yea because Komisarek would have been a top 4 for this team. He's brutal.

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02-29-2012, 11:20 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I don't see why not. He played the majority of his hockey in Canadian markets and has already played here as well as Calgary. I have no way to prove that he would or wouldn't so I'll ask you the same question. Are you assuming he wouldn't? Because given his history he seems to enjoy the Canadian Hockey Markets.

Also it didn't have to be Hamrlik, Tambo could have brought in anyone with over 10 years experience who could fill a top 4 role and I would have been happy. But he goes out and gets a top 2 by his words in Cam Barker.
Yes I'm assuming he wouldn't sign here. WSH signed him to a really good contract on day 1 of free agency. It probably would've taken an extra year and more money for him to come here.

People complain about Belanger and Eager getting 3 year deals. Hamrlik would've been in the exact same boat and isn't exactly having a good year.

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02-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #206
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Yea because Komisarek would have been a top 4 for this team. He's brutal.
Who then? Cuz I don't think the hammer is a top 4 player anymore. Other dmen are pretty expensive

I'm not saying ST didn't make a mistake I'm just more curious who you had in mind

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02-29-2012, 11:23 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Yes I'm assuming he wouldn't sign here. WSH signed him to a really good contract on day 1 of free agency. It probably would've taken an extra year and more money for him to come here.

People complain about Belanger and Eager getting 3 year deals. Hamrlik would've been in the exact same boat and isn't exactly having a good year.
Well where's your proof? Can you 100% say that he declined Edmonton? My guess Edmonton didn't even make an offer, but again thats an assumption. All I know is that there were several Dmen available last summer that would have been upgrades to our team and we ended up with Cam Barker.

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02-29-2012, 11:24 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I don't see why not. He played the majority of his hockey in Canadian markets and has already played here as well as Calgary. I have no way to prove that he would or wouldn't so I'll ask you the same question. Are you assuming he wouldn't? Because given his history he seems to enjoy the Canadian Hockey Markets.

Also it didn't have to be Hamrlik, Tambo could have brought in anyone with over 10 years experience who could fill a top 4 role and I would have been happy. But he goes out and gets a top 2 by his words in Cam Barker.

Not only is Hamrlik a has been, but he's been sitting out in Washington as a healthy scratch and done nothing but publicly complain about it. Is that the kind of character and attitude you want to bring into a young dressing room? And stop with the top 4 on the Oilers. Hamrlik is not going to play ahead of Whitney, Petry, Smid, or Gilbert/Schultz. Hell, he's not going to play ahead of Andy Sutton for that matter. He'd be fighting for scraps with Peckham and Potter.

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02-29-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Just in response to some distorted claims about what kind of use and success the players had this year some tale of the tape:

Gilbert

3G 14A 17pts

TOI 22.47/G

EV 17.25mins/G 2.44 GA/60mins -4

PK 3.15mins/G 4.85GA/60mins

55hits


Schultz

1G 2A 3pts

TOI 19.35

EV 16.44mins/G 2.00GA/60mins -10

PK 2.33mins/G 6.99GA/60mins

60hits


So what we have above is Gilbert used 3mins more every game, plus Gilbert plays on the PP, and PK, and Schultz only plays on pk. Gilbert clearly has better numbers on the pk this year, is heavily used in that capacity compared to Schultz, and with an easy argument that Gilbert has had the better shutdown pk numbers this year.

Schultz has slightly lower EVGA , although one has to consider that Gilbert contributes some offense EV and Schultz doesn't. Despite giving up slightly more GA at evens Gilbert as noted is -4, and Schultz -10. So arguably Gilbert wins that round as well.

So the performance this season has been Gilbert better on PK, contributes on PP and has been arguably better EV. The hits are the same.

Its debatable who the better shutdown player has been this year. Remember this is the only reason we're bringing Schultz in here.
Gilbert is the more skilled player and with better numbers this year.

Hopefully Schultz steps it up but he's had a rough year.
When this team is healthy Gilbert isn't on the PP. His 6 points are hardly a contribute that we can't replace.

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02-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Well where's your proof? Can you 100% say that he declined Edmonton? My guess Edmonton didn't even make an offer, but again thats an assumption. All I know is that there were several Dmen available last summer that would have been upgrades to our team and we ended up with Cam Barker.
You'll never have proof, but I think it's pretty darn obvious that Hamrlik wouldn't have came here with WSH making him an offer.

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02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
When this team is healthy Gilbert isn't on the PP. His 6 points are hardly a contribute that we can't replace.
Thats the one point that you have in response to the above?

Again Gilbert logged more EV, PK, and PP minutes than Schultz and did all of them better.

You're quibbling over how many PP pts he got?

They key I think is are we going to replace Gilberts solid 23mins/night?

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02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I guess you don't like Lamerrielo either. 4 buyouts, no future goalie and multiple high priced players that under perform or are injured.
Yes. You guessed right. Whats your point?

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02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Thats the one point that you have in response to the above?

Again Gilbert logged more EV, PK, and PP minutes than Schultz and did all of them better.

You're quibbling over how many PP pts he got?

They key I think is are we going to replace Gilberts solid 23mins/night?
Well you seem to like to throw false info out all the time so I'm not going to let you do that.

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02-29-2012, 11:31 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
Who then? Cuz I don't think the hammer is a top 4 player anymore. Other dmen are pretty expensive

I'm not saying ST didn't make a mistake I'm just more curious who you had in mind
Corvo went for a 4th, Jovanovski, Hannan, Brewer, Hejda, Etc... I haven't looked through all the trades but I'm sure there are some where defensemen went for peanuts.

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02-29-2012, 11:32 AM
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Well you seem to like to throw false info out all the time so I'm not going to let you do that.
What, exactly, was false there?

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02-29-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Well you seem to like to throw false info out all the time so I'm not going to let you do that.
False info?

I would say the falsehood is the trumped bill of goods that Schultz is a better D, and a better shutdown player.

There seems to be no end of that falsehood being stated.

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02-29-2012, 11:34 AM
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Corvo went for a 4th, Jovanovski, Hannan, Brewer, Hejda, Etc... I haven't looked through all the trades but I'm sure there are some where defensemen went for peanuts.
Corvo apparently only wanted Boston. I'll give you Hannan, but I don't think the rest were options.

Hannan is the type of guy that I'd assume would sign here. Sitting around with his thumb up his bum in August.

Jovo wouldn't have came here and he sucks now. That might've been the worse contract of the summer. I actually think Sutton is a better pickup.

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02-29-2012, 11:35 AM
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[QUOTE=Replacement;45244239]Thats the one point that you have in response to the above?

Again Gilbert logged more EV, PK, and PP minutes than Schultz and did all of them better.

You're quibbling over how many PP pts he got?

They key I think is are we going to replace Gilberts solid 23mins/night?[/
QUOTE]

I would say the answer is "yes".

But are we going to improve on those minutes anytime soon?

Nope.

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02-29-2012, 11:35 AM
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False info?

I would say the falsehood is the trumped bill of goods that Schultz is a better D, and a better shutdown player.

There seems to be no end of that falsehood being stated.
Like yesterday when you claimed wild fans were jumping in joy, Gilbert has done very little for this PP.

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02-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Corvo went for a 4th, Jovanovski, Hannan, Brewer, Hejda, Etc... I haven't looked through all the trades but I'm sure there are some where defensemen went for peanuts.
I can't be sure but I think jovo wouldn't have left Florida.flames weren't gonna give hannan to the oilers considering they don't have a lot of dmen, also he's slow rather have Sutton cuz pretty much the same at this point.

No way brewer moves considering tbay needs dmen. And I don't think avs would trade hejda to a division rival.

Corvo isn't really what the team needs. He's a defensive liability, always had been

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02-29-2012, 11:36 AM
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Who then? Cuz I don't think the hammer is a top 4 player anymore. Other dmen are pretty expensive
I'm not saying ST didn't make a mistake I'm just more curious who you had in mind
Why is that a problem?

If the player you really believe is the piece you need then you anti up. At some point it's going to happen that a big piece needs to be obtained and it will cost dearly to get him, maybe even one of the big 3.

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02-29-2012, 11:37 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Not only is Hamrlik a has been, but he's been sitting out in Washington as a healthy scratch and done nothing but publicly complain about it. Is that the kind of character and attitude you want to bring into a young dressing room? And stop with the top 4 on the Oilers. Hamrlik is not going to play ahead of Whitney, Petry, Smid, or Gilbert/Schultz. Hell, he's not going to play ahead of Andy Sutton for that matter. He'd be fighting for scraps with Peckham and Potter.
I'm sure he would have been a better option then Peckham, Petry, Chorney and Teubert all through December. And Tambellini knew that Whitney would be hurt to start the year so and his plan was to let Barker play a top 4 role. Our defense to start the season was:

Gilbert-Smid
Barker-Sutton
Potter-Petry
Peckham

Your telling me Hamrlik wouldn't have been a top 4 here? Yea right.

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02-29-2012, 11:39 AM
  #223
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I can't be sure but I think jovo wouldn't have left Florida.flames weren't gonna give hannan to the oilers considering they don't have a lot of dmen, also he's slow rather have Sutton cuz pretty much the same at this point.

No way brewer moves considering tbay needs dmen. And I don't think avs would trade hejda to a division rival.

Corvo isn't really what the team needs. He's a defensive liability, always had been
I think Corvo would've helped with the puck moving. If he was available for a 4th you have to make that move, but the rumors were the only reason he was dealt was because he asked to be traded to Boston.

Colin White is another guy we should've taken a chance on, but he ended up being a fail.

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02-29-2012, 11:39 AM
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What, exactly, was false there?
I would say inconvenient truth more than false info.

The whole we obtained "shutdown D" thing is all the optics this deal had going. Until one actually looks at it at all.

People want to believe that we got some behefit in this deal. I'm still searching for it.

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02-29-2012, 11:40 AM
  #225
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Why is that a problem?

If the player you really believe is the peice you need then you anti up. At some point it's going to happen that a big peice needs to be obtained and it will cost dearly to get him, maybe even one of the big 3.
I don't think there were many last year that I'd give the money too. This year there are a few, but they could very well be re-signed.

Making a stupid signing like Buf did with Erhoff or CBJ did with the Wiz isn't the answer either.

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