Renney will ensure The Nuge does not get the necessary ice-time or linemates to win the Calder.
Book it.
The play of RNH will ensure he does not get the Calder.
book it.
(although to be fair, the way the refs have begun to call the game really doesn't help RNH but hinders him)
While I agree that such an org move would be ludicrous I don't follow the latter argument. What exactly is the Calder worth? My own view is its meaningless and inconsequential.
One trophy matters.
I don't have a dollar value for the Calder (although I'd be curious to see what kind of bonus a player would receive for it).
But suffice to say that any individual awards do have plenty of value in terms of PR, marketing, promotion, etc. They are another indicator of how good a team - or at least the players on it - are performing.
While I agree that such an org move would be ludicrous I don't follow the latter argument. What exactly is the Calder worth? My own view is its meaningless and inconsequential.
One trophy matters.
I guess I can only talk for Swedish players here but there a pattern to there comments during the season and/or if they have been close but never won any award. That pattern is not to go as far as dismissing the awards but point out that SC trophys is all that matters.
That said, there is generally a different pattern for players who have won one (or more) awards. During the season it is obvioulsy the same as all the others but when they sit down during the summer break and do in depth interviews most of them admit that that award meant really alot to them. Of course the SC is in another league in terms of importance but it seems to me that when they have time to take a breath (i.e. during summer break) they are really proud of whatever award and/or record they have won/set.
I don't have a dollar value for the Calder (although I'd be curious to see what kind of bonus a player would receive for it).
But suffice to say that any individual awards do have plenty of value in terms of PR, marketing, promotion, etc. They are another indicator of how good a team - or at least the players on it - are performing.
A poor indicator.
The best team on the planet, the 80's Oilers, did they have one Calder trophy win among all their world class players.
edit, I just checked. Oilers have never won it, Flames won it three times in the 80's (lol), Jets won it twice, while we were collecting 5 Stanley Cups.
Like I said, inconsequential, and as an Oiler fan I could care less about the Calder trophy.
Rather win the race than the initial sprint.
Last edited by Replacement: 03-08-2012 at 11:19 AM.
I guess I can only talk for Swedish players here but there a pattern to there comments during the season and/or if they have been close but never won any award. That pattern is not to go as far as dismissing the awards but point out that SC trophys is all that matters.
That said, there is generally a different pattern for players who have won one (or more) awards. During the season it is obvioulsy the same as all the others but when they sit down during the summer break and do in depth interviews most of them admit that that award meant really alot to them. Of course the SC is in another league in terms of importance but it seems to me that when they have time to take a breath (i.e. during summer break) they are really proud of whatever award and/or record they have won/set.
Well despite what BBO said earlier about Gretz I do have a bias where the calder is concerned. That whole glory years Oilers team saw the Calder trophy as generally a joke award that was awarded to a lot of inferior players and teams. The biggest joke being none of Gretz, Kurri, Mess, Fuhr, Coffey, Anderson ever won this cup. Try reconciling that.
I've always felt, like those Oilers felt, that the Calder trophy award had no credibility.
Well despite what BBO said earlier about Gretz I do have a bias where the calder is concerned. That whole glory years Oilers team saw the Calder trophy as generally a joke award that was awarded to a lot of inferior players and teams. The biggest joke being none of Gretz, Kurri, Mess, Fuhr, Coffey, Anderson ever won this cup. Try reconciling that.
I've always felt, like those Oilers felt, that the Calder trophy award had no credibility.
I don't feel differently years later.
Gretz didn't win it because he had already played in the WHA. Part of the reason that I want RNH to win it so badly is that we have yet to have a winner in our organization.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
My issue with the Calder is that it's an award that someone who is a flash in the pan can win it.
Does anyone want Scott Gomez or Andrew Raycroft on their team?
Not that this is a causal relationship, but I just see it as a "hey you did well your first year" but ultimately isn't an award I am too concerned with.
Well despite what BBO said earlier about Gretz I do have a bias where the calder is concerned. That whole glory years Oilers team saw the Calder trophy as generally a joke award that was awarded to a lot of inferior players and teams. The biggest joke being none of Gretz, Kurri, Mess, Fuhr, Coffey, Anderson ever won this cup. Try reconciling that.
I've always felt, like those Oilers felt, that the Calder trophy award had no credibility.
I don't feel differently years later.
OK, I see where you come from on this issue and I agree that the Calder is not a measure of what a player will become (I guess that's the point with regards to the examples).
In the end I wouldn't call myself a rabid defender of the value of the Calder, I just think that it would be a nice ending of an otherwise crappy season (team) for RNH and I do think he'd be happy for it. The point is that I wouldn't be arguing for the team to play for RNH if it wasn't a close race and I think he can get there. I like RNH to win it but if he doesn't I won't cry over it.
Gretz didn't win it because he had already played in the WHA. Part of the reason that I want RNH to win it so badly is that we have yet to have a winner in our organization.
I'm aware of the WHA afilliated snub. It was typical NHL ******** at the time. Gretz's pts from the prior league didn't count, but they determined he's not a rookie. lol. Even though he was younger than say 25% of the players that have won this award. Some being 10 years older.
Fair enough BBO. One of the reasons I think the Calder has zero credibility is the Calgary Flames winning 3, count em 3, Calder trophies in the 80's while the best team in history with half a dozen world class players and 5SC's never won one.
My issue with the Calder is that it's an award that someone who is a flash in the pan can win it.
Does anyone want Scott Gomez or Andrew Raycroft on their team?
Not that this is a causal relationship, but I just see it as a "hey you did well your first year" but ultimately isn't an award I am too concerned with.
Flash in the pan is exactly my thought. Count the one hit wonders on that Calder alltime list.
I'm aware of the WHA afilliated snub. It was typical NHL ******** at the time. Gretz's pts from the prior league didn't count, but they determined he's not a rookie. lol. Even though he was younger than say 25% of the players that have won this award. Some being 10 years older.
Fair enough BBO. One of the reasons I think the Calder has zero credibility is the Calgary Flames winning 3, count em 3, Calder trophies in the 80's while the best team in history with half a dozen world class players and 5SC's never won one.
The Calder will always ring hollow to me.
It's true that anyone can win it, however I don't see RNH or Landeskog as a flash in the pan, they are a couple of 18 year olds that are outplaying guys in their early-mid 20's. Personally I'd like to see the kid win the hardware because quite frankly in my time as an Oilers fan no one has won a ****ing thing. Obviously the cup is the biggest prize by far, but we are still a good ways away from that goal, so why not add a little something in the meantime? As it stands he is not at his earlier season form so he probably won't win it, oh well.
Of course everyone wants a Stanley Cup more than all the individual trophies combined.
But individual honours - such as trophies and All-Star selections - do hold SOME value (how much is debatable).
These things do matter somewhat to the players and many fans. It's a nice pat on the back and acknowledgment of a good year (I was actually ticked that Pisani didn't get the Masterton the year he was nominated).
Do these trophies really, really matter? Is it the end of the world if RNH does not get a Calder trophy? No, of course not. It's a nice feather in your cap.
And the Oilers definitely care about whether or not RNH gets the Calder. It's another thing they can market and promote and a slight indicator that things are improving for the team. Tom Renney may not care about his players winning individual awards - nor should he - but the organization as a whole does care.
Of course everyone wants a Stanley Cup more than all the individual trophies combined.
But individual honours - such as trophies and All-Star selections - do hold SOME value (how much is debatable).
These things do matter somewhat to the players and many fans. It's a nice pat on the back and acknowledgment of a good year (I was actually ticked that Pisani didn't get the Masterton the year he was nominated).
Do these trophies really, really matter? Is it the end of the world if RNH does not get a Calder trophy? No, of course not. It's a nice feather in your cap.
And the Oilers definitely care about whether or not RNH gets the Calder. It's another thing they can market and promote and a slight indicator that things are improving for the team. Tom Renney may not care about his players winning individual awards - nor should he - but the organization as a whole does care.
Then tell me why he isn't being put in the best possible position to get there when the season is all but over again? I keep hearing you tell us that they care/want him to win, meanwhile he is playing on the 2nd PP unit and on the 2nd line with Smyth instead of with at least one of Hall and Eberle?
Then tell me why he isn't being put in the best possible position to get there when the season is all but over again? I keep hearing you tell us that they care/want him to win, meanwhile he is playing on the 2nd PP unit and on the 2nd line with Smyth instead of with at least one of Hall and Eberle?
Whether he's being put in the best possible position to win the Calder is a matter of opinion, however, the Oilers DO have to think about RNH's production and well-being beyond this season. There's no point in putting him in positions that will boost his Calder chances this year if they are going to hinder his development long term.
Regarding RNH's position on the PP, again, Renney can't JUST be thinking I need to get him some points so he can win the Calder. He's got to think about what is best for the team and the players around the Nuge and everything else. Didn't RNH set up Eberle two games ago on a PP goal? It's not like RNH has been banned from playing with Hall and Ebs. And it's also not like they've had a lot of PP opportunities to take advantage of over the last three games.
Also, there could be all kinds of valid reasons why the PP units are what they are that have nothing to do with RNH & the Calder race or RNH at all (showcasing players, sheltering players, cohesiveness of units, etc). Little early IMO to worry about RNH not getting proper PP use.
Then tell me why he isn't being put in the best possible position to get there when the season is all but over again? I keep hearing you tell us that they care/want him to win, meanwhile he is playing on the 2nd PP unit and on the 2nd line with Smyth instead of with at least one of Hall and Eberle?
They put him on the first unit today.
Not that it will matter, we'll get 50 seconds of PP time tops.
It's true that anyone can win it, however I don't see RNH or Landeskog as a flash in the pan, they are a couple of 18 year olds that are outplaying guys in their early-mid 20's. Personally I'd like to see the kid win the hardware because quite frankly in my time as an Oilers fan no one has won a ****ing thing. Obviously the cup is the biggest prize by far, but we are still a good ways away from that goal, so why not add a little something in the meantime? As it stands he is not at his earlier season form so he probably won't win it, oh well.
We won the Western conference one year. Whats the trophy for that called? (I don't even keep track of these things, the players don't care who wins the conferences, anymore than the presidents trophy(strangely I know that one) and Gagner got the greatest game by an Oiler player you ever saw, I think he got some pucks, a lot of hats, and the Oilers will probably make up some kind of Trophy to give him. Or a bronzed stick or something nice, maybe a contract.
As far as not winning anything in ages thats gotta suck but would make it that much more special if it happened for younger fans I guess.
We all have different perspectives. In retrospect like I say now I know why you were arguing for more PP time in the other thread. I don't keep up with many threads here anymore so didn't know and didn't think about what people were discussing in other threads.
Regardless of anything though it looks like Landeskog already has it sewn up. You can't really win it just on the front end I wouldn't think and RNH has 4 pts in 2012 so far.
While I don't generally put a lot of stock in individual awards, you gotta think the Calder is one a young kid would really like to win. It is, after all, the only award you have 1 shot and 1 shot only at winning. Gotta be a source of pride to win it.
I'd love to see Nuge take it, at this point though, it's Landeskog's to lose.
Yeah what a ******** award. One of 3 Calders for the Flames during our glory years. Oiler fans at the time, already thinking the Calder is BS, didn't even care about that one. Pretty much a standing joke at the time that a 31yr old would win the Calder. When Gretzky at 19 was deemed not to be eligible due to contrived and specific rules around what "professional" player meant. Of course Makarov, a hero in the Soviet Union, and well rewarded for his efforts, and a legendary player with 12 years elite, well paid experience, was deemed eligible.
I think Makarov was older than any Oiler player at the time.
Resulted in the "Makarov rule" and further tarnishing of the Calder cup.
All this trophy talk has me wondering: Is Crosby a lock for the Bill Masterton? Doubt he ever thought he'd compete for that (especially at his age) but is anyone else on the radar for this?
Was a big deal in EDM because it was the only trophy no Oiler had won <Back in the Arnott , Comrie days>. Now that they have added so many other trophies winning the Calder doesnt matter as much.
I think he got some pucks, a lot of hats, and the Oilers will probably make up some kind of Trophy to give him. Or a bronzed stick or something nice, maybe a contract.
