What is the most you would offer to Ryan Suter (avg cap hit) if he hits free agency this summer? Basically what is the largest cap hit you'd be willing to give Suter for a contract that is say 6 years long? This is under the assumption that Lidstrom and Stuart retire and the cap is about the same.
I was going to say 7-7.5. I'd love to say somewhere in the 6.5 range, but the value has risen a bit since Detroit last signed a big time player. He's one of the few players that i'd be happy to pay market value for simply because he would fit a big time need.
Just a 6-year deal? 10,10,10,9,8,7. $54M for 6 years = $9M hit. I'd do that in a second.
More realistic scenario...12-year deal. 10,10,10,10,9,9,8,7,5,2,2,2. $84M for 12 years = $7M hit...although since he probably doesn't play those final 3 years...Suter collects $78M in 9 years so about $8.5M per year.
But he make take a discount if he has a strong preference over a certain city.
Just a 6-year deal? 10,10,10,9,8,7. $54M for 6 years = $9M hit. I'd do that in a second.
More realistic scenario...12-year deal. 10,10,10,10,9,9,8,7,5,2,2,2. $84M for 12 years = $7M hit...although since he probably doesn't play those final 3 years...Suter collects $78M in 9 years so about $8.5M per year.
But he make take a discount if he has a strong preference over a certain city.
He's one FA where I'd have no problem paying market value or even a little more if it helped our chances to acquire him
7.8 for something over 5 years is what I'd offer. And if it took 8.5 to get him, I'd actually think about it. He's hugely underrated and the NHL doesn't have the amount and caliber of top pairing defensemen it used to. We need to procure the services of at least one of them or be left in the cold. No more Niedermayer, Chelly, Stevens, Blake and it's not long before Chara, Pronger and Nick go. What's left? Keith? Doughty? LOL Karlsson? Subban? Drought's a comin' guys. Gotta get Weber or Suter. We won't be totally screwed but we'd be missing out on a massive, decade long automatic advantage over everyone else.
And if you think 6.5 is reasonable, you're just flat out cheap. He'll laugh at that offer unless it's over 10 years. And you better believe the powers that be will be watching Holland closely, considering he basically popularized the whole low offer over a long term thing.
I don't like the idea of paying him any more than Datsyuk but realistically its unlikely we can get him for 6.7.
Unfortunately with Lidstrom retiring in the next season or 2 we are going to need to get another Elite D, and he's the best available this year so if it costs a bit more so be it.
I don't like the idea of paying him any more than Datsyuk but realistically its unlikely we can get him for 6.7.
Unfortunately with Lidstrom retiring in the next season or 2 we are going to need to get another Elite D, and he's the best available this year so if it costs a bit more so be it.
You have to interms of % of cap space not actual cap number. When Datsyuk signed his 6.7M deal cap was much lower. I would guess Datsyuk's 6.7M is equal to 8M+ now (sorry kind of feeling lazy. didn't want to look up the actual numbers)
What is the most you would offer to Ryan Suter (avg cap hit) if he hits free agency this summer? Basically what is the largest cap hit you'd be willing to give Suter for a contract that is say 6 years long? This is under the assumption that Lidstrom and Stuart retire and the cap is about the same.
Personally I would offer 8-8.5M
I am in the same general ballpark figure as you. I think they have to overpay for Suter because it is important to get him. The only way to reasonably drive him down might be offering that at 7 million as a cap figure they can lure either Parise or Weber the next summer who he can recruit himself. Actually part of the reason I was willing to pick up Stafford was his relationship with Parise. But I have no problem giving him a cap hit of 8 million as long as the cap stays this high. That is now really where the 7 million figure used to be at as far as managing your cap. I think both Parise and Suter are coming near that number, Suter should be our first priority, but he isn't coming for 6.5 million like some think.
I don't like the idea of paying him any more than Datsyuk but realistically its unlikely we can get him for 6.7.
Unfortunately with Lidstrom retiring in the next season or 2 we are going to need to get another Elite D, and he's the best available this year so if it costs a bit more so be it.
Well when we gave Datsyuk his contract the cap was much much lower, if you at the % of the salary cap when he signed compared to now his contract would be much higher
When Datsyuk signed his contract his cap hit was 13.3% of the salary cap, now it is only 10.4
If we offered Suter 8M it would be 12.4% of the salary cap. Perfectly reasonable IMO
I am in the same general ballpark figure as you. I think they have to overpay for Suter because it is important to get him. The only way to reasonably drive him down might be offering that at 7 million as a cap figure they can lure either Parise or Weber the next summer who he can recruit himself. Actually part of the reason I was willing to pick up Stafford was his relationship with Parise. But I have no problem giving him a cap hit of 8 million as long as the cap stays this high. That is now really where the 7 million figure used to be at as far as managing your cap. I think both Parise and Suter are coming near that number, Suter should be our first priority, but he isn't coming for 6.5 million like some think.
Yeah I agree. Also we have to think, if we don't get Suter/Parise, who are the next tier guys we can bring in? The 2nd tier guys will also get overpaid, since there are only 2 Suter and Parise compare to number of teams that wants to upgrade their roster. If we have to over pay for 2nd tier players, I would rather add some to get better quality player.
Finally, as we've seen last few years, it's hard to add during the deadline (so having a lot of capspace isn't really that useful).
Some of you sound as clueless as Holland! $6.5M?? LOL. $8M is way too high. Pfft, LOL. We can't pay him more than Pav or Nik, LOL! Maybe we can get it at $6.5M if we go 10 years, LOL.
Clueless, clueless, clueless. Go read my first post for a dose of reality. Want some help. Go see Doughty's deal. Add $1M. That's the ballpark.
Sure hope Holland approaches this like me and not like a timid cheapskate like some of you.
I don't disagree about the cap raising, and like I said I may not want to pay him more than Datsyuk but I would considering how well he fits our needs.
I seem to recall Holland saying in the past though that no forward he signed would be paid more than Datsyuk or a defender more than Lidstrom. I doubt that still holds true today, but it might be an issue.
7M cap hit, but realistically, 10Mish, I'm too lazy to do the math, so not sure how many years it'll take to make that cap hit. And then offer the same thing to Weber or slightly more next year depending on the cap.
Imagine our D lines with those two in the lineup, I'd have little school girl fits for the rest of my life.
Suter - Weber
Kronwall - White
Quincey - Smith
Ericsson/Kindl
But we trade away Ericsson or Kindl for picks or a forward. By this time Nyquist, Tatar and Mursak will be in the lineup full time, and maybe Pulk+Jurco, so I say trade either D man for picks unless we're trading for an elite top6 (but that's highly unlikely).
Or imagine if Nick decides to stay another year. :O
Weber - Suter
Lidstrom - White
Kronwall - Quincey/Smith
Ericsson/Kindl
Oh my god, I'm getting excited just thinking about how much our defense would destroy. Especially if Nick is still competitive.
It won't come down to money. Given the percentage of the cap and barring some radical restructuring in the next CBA, we'll toss in the ballpark of 8 mil at him. Likely 8.5 if we have to. But we're not desperate and this CBA is built on rewarding the desperate. Some bottom dweller looking to finally stop sucking on D with 10 mil to spare is going to offer him 10.5 for 12 years or some insane crap like that. He's going to have to want to come here. You better believe every single team with the space will make an offer, the contenders will be on his mind and we need to stick out as an attractive place to play. Courtesy moves like Commodore are what makes us appealing to free agents. We take care of our own.
If he signs a long term deal, it won't be for as much as people are speculating. Last summer Brad Richards had many teams after him, with several notorious spenders after him and the new cap, and his caphit was less than people anticipated at 6.67 million. And he was the only #1 center on the market. I know Suter is younger, but I am doubting he will get 8 or 8+ as FA if he signs a longer term deal, which I would assume he wants. I'm going to guess somewhere between 6.75-7.5 with 7.5 as the max.
Some of you sound as clueless as Holland! $6.5M?? LOL. $8M is way too high. Pfft, LOL. We can't pay him more than Pav or Nik, LOL! Maybe we can get it at $6.5M if we go 10 years, LOL.
Clueless, clueless, clueless. Go read my first post for a dose of reality. Want some help. Go see Doughty's deal. Add $1M. That's the ballpark.
Sure hope Holland approaches this like me and not like a timid cheapskate like some of you.
I haven't been here long but you don't strike me as anyone to be criticizing anyone else.
I don't disagree about the cap raising, and like I said I may not want to pay him more than Datsyuk but I would considering how well he fits our needs.
I seem to recall Holland saying in the past though that no forward he signed would be paid more than Datsyuk or a defender more than Lidstrom. I doubt that still holds true today, but it might be an issue.
Yeah. That should be % of cap based on when they signed. If Holland really wants to follow that, there is no way he can sign Parise/Suter unless he signs them for 10+ year deals
If he signs a long term deal, it won't be for as much as people are speculating. Last summer Brad Richards had many teams after him, with several notorious spenders after him and the new cap, and his caphit was less than people anticipated at 6.67 million. And he was the only #1 center on the market. I know Suter is younger, but I am doubting he will get 8 or 8+ as FA if he signs a longer term deal, which I would assume he wants. I'm going to guess somewhere between 6.75-7.5 with 7.5 as the max.
Richards was an overhyped player who isn't even in the top 20 or maybe 30 at forward, where there's a glut of scorers. Suter is a top 5 defenseman in an time when top tier defenseman are disappearing.
If he signs a long term deal, it won't be for as much as people are speculating. Last summer Brad Richards had many teams after him, with several notorious spenders after him and the new cap, and his caphit was less than people anticipated at 6.67 million. And he was the only #1 center on the market. I know Suter is younger, but I am doubting he will get 8 or 8+ as FA if he signs a longer term deal, which I would assume he wants. I'm going to guess somewhere between 6.75-7.5 with 7.5 as the max.
I 100% guarantee that teams will offer more than 7.5M. When was the last time a top 3 defenseman, just entering his prime, hit UFA, and tell me what % of the salary cap the offer he accepted was
Richards was an overhyped player who isn't even in the top 20 or maybe 30 at forward, where there's a glut of scorers. Suter is a top 5 defenseman in an time when top tier defenseman are disappearing.
Some of you sound as clueless as Holland! $6.5M?? LOL. $8M is way too high. Pfft, LOL. We can't pay him more than Pav or Nik, LOL! Maybe we can get it at $6.5M if we go 10 years, LOL.
Clueless, clueless, clueless. Go read my first post for a dose of reality. Want some help. Go see Doughty's deal. Add $1M. That's the ballpark.
Sure hope Holland approaches this like me and not like a timid cheapskate like some of you.
If you think we sound clueless we're probably on the right track then.
For an actual dose of reality take Doughty's deal and subtract around a million.
Doughty is younger, has a higher offensive ceiling, has already doubled Suters career best in goals, and fits our system better.
I like Suter a lot, and like I said I'd overpay for him, but he's not more valuable than Doughty IMO.
And then offer the same thing to Weber or slightly more next year depending on the cap. 
