7M cap hit, but realistically, 10Mish, I'm too lazy to do the math, so not sure how many years it'll take to make that cap hit. And then offer the same thing to Weber or slightly more next year depending on the cap.
Imagine our D lines with those two in the lineup, I'd have little school girl fits for the rest of my life.
Suter - Weber
Kronwall - White
Quincey - Smith
Ericsson/Kindl
But we trade away Ericsson or Kindl for picks or a forward. By this time Nyquist, Tatar and Mursak will be in the lineup full time, and maybe Pulk+Jurco, so I say trade either D man for picks unless we're trading for an elite top6 (but that's highly unlikely).
Or imagine if Nick decides to stay another year. :O
Weber - Suter
Lidstrom - White
Kronwall - Quincey/Smith
Ericsson/Kindl
Oh my god, I'm getting excited just thinking about how much our defense would destroy. Especially if Nick is still competitive.
What happens when Parise re-signs in Jersey and Suter's rights are traded to an Eastern Conference team?
I don't think Nashville will trade us Suter's rights. Why would they? Unless the Wings do something crazy like offer a bunch of 1sts + prospect(s).
Our only chance at Suter is if he gets to July 1st, IMO.
So when a team like the Flyers acquire Suter's rights everyone will automatically wanna run Holland out of town like they know what goes on behind the scenes.
9 million a year for Suter? Last time I checked, Ryan Suter isn't Crosby or Malkin. Offer Suter a long term deal in the 7-7.5 range. Wings don't want to get into a bidding war. If Weber hit the market I may be willing to offer over 7.5 but I doubt that happens anytime soon.
9 years, front loaded, NMC, cap hit of 8.25mil. That would probably do it.
Or just go up and give the guy a lifetime contract for 100mil total. Especially if Lidstrom retires.
@Vladdy84
Don't expect to sign him then. Pure and simple. 7.5mil is towards the lower end he would be getting in terms of cap hit. If Lidstrom retires, then you'll probably change your tune. Only so many top-pairing defensemen to go around.
13 years, $100MM. $7.7MM per. I think that'll be close to the final number once everything is settled.
That is the exact contract I threw out yesterday, I think it is a good deal and I doubt anyone can compete with it and blow it out of the water, especially when you factor in the contender element.
That is the exact contract I threw out yesterday, I think it is a good deal and I doubt anyone can compete with it and blow it out of the water, especially when you factor in the contender element.
Exactly. Wings will have enough money to throw at him and have a pretty darn good (old)team as well.
How much are people willing to pay Flip when his contract is up? By that time Bert, Cleary and more than likely Hudler will be off the team. I really doubt Parise is coming here. Can't count on prospects to fill those top 6 needs. Ideally it would be great to add Suter. But we do have Kronwall, Smith, Quincey, Kindl and Big E for the foreseeable future. And please remember that same year that Flip is up, so is Jimmy. And Jimmy's gonna wanna get paid. Just a couple thoughts.
13 years, $100MM. $7.7MM per. I think that'll be close to the final number once everything is settled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405
That is the exact contract I threw out yesterday, I think it is a good deal and I doubt anyone can compete with it and blow it out of the water, especially when you factor in the contender element.
Then Bravo! to both of you because I would do that deal in a heartbeat.
I think people are blinded by the Wings internal cap and look at Malkin or Crosby's deals as comparable, when theyre not. When did Crosby and Malkin sign their deals? When the cap was $56?
If the cap doesnt go up with the new CBA (which it probably will not, staying at $63.85), Suter at $7.7 is 12.05% of the cap. For a Norris caliber defensemen.
Thats pittance. Lidstrom, who was/is a total stud and generational talent, was making $7.6 per year one year after the lockout (06-07) with a cap of $44 million. For a total cap percentage of 17.2%.
Suter at $7.7 (~12%) is a deal both sides could live with.
Then Bravo! to both of you because I would do that deal in a heartbeat.
I think people are blinded by the Wings internal cap and look at Malkin or Crosby's deals as comparable, when theyre not. When did Crosby and Malkin sign their deals? When the cap was $56?
If the cap doesnt go up with the new CBA (which it probably will not, staying at $63.85), Suter at $7.7 is 12.05% of the cap. For a Norris caliber defensemen.
Thats pittance. Lidstrom, who was/is a total stud and generational talent, was making $7.6 per year one year after the lockout (06-07) with a cap of $44 million. For a total cap percentage of 17.2%.
Suter at $7.7 (~12%) is a deal both sides could live with.
Looks like we're all in agreement. And nice job with the percentages, people often forget that.
Has anybody forwarded this to Holland's desk? We need to let him know the fans support him in this endeavor and we're willing to pull out Ilitch's checkbook.
Then Bravo! to both of you because I would do that deal in a heartbeat.
I think people are blinded by the Wings internal cap and look at Malkin or Crosby's deals as comparable, when theyre not. When did Crosby and Malkin sign their deals? When the cap was $56?
If the cap doesnt go up with the new CBA (which it probably will not, staying at $63.85), Suter at $7.7 is 12.05% of the cap. For a Norris caliber defensemen.
Thats pittance. Lidstrom, who was/is a total stud and generational talent, was making $7.6 per year one year after the lockout (06-07) with a cap of $44 million. For a total cap percentage of 17.2%.
Suter at $7.7 (~12%) is a deal both sides could live with.
good work one of the biggest factors people are ignoring about crosby and malkins contract was the age that they signed them.
most players "career contract" occurs righ t around the age of 27, 28, 29. this is the contract theyexpect to make the most money
when crosby, malkin and stamkos all come up for renewal in the near future they will all be striking oil big time as they will want to cash in and ensure financial success and freedom till the day they die.
I have never really understood why a player would negotiate and sign with another team prior to going to free agency. If it is your team and you plan on staying there that is one thing, but if you will be moving wouldn't you wait to hear from all teams?
That's why I never understood the trading for somebody's rights.
One of the big uphill climbs that detroit now has is that the appeal is not as big as it used to be to sign here. Illitch used to be able to sign sooooooo many great names to surround you if you signed with detroit but now with the cap, that appeal is gone. As a defenseman you also got to play with Nick, now if you sign with the Wings, you will be compared with Nick. Finally, Detroit (the City) is not in very good shape and you do want a place that works well for your family. Signing Suter could be very tough for the Wings. It might be easier to get a top forward.
I would sleep like a baby if Suter was signed with an eight million dollar cap hit.
Datsyuk would easily get 7.5 million right now.
No chance in hell Suter is signed for 6-7 million. 7.5 is the minimum IMO he plays for cap hit wise.
Wings need to offer atleast nine million per year salary wise.
If Holland walks away because he is not comfortable paying that, than the wings need a new GM.
I really hope we land Suter, and he would be one of the first really big UFA D's to be available for a while. But, what has he done to get the largest cap hit league-wide at minimum among D's with terms? Why should he get 600k more in cap hit than Chara, for instance? Not trying to make a point here, just curious.
I think Suter's only reasoning for leaving Nashville would be the chance to win championships. And make no mistake, Nashville is a pretty darn good team so that excludes quite a few destinations(I expect at least 20-25 teams to be interested in Suter if he hits free agency). So, if he's serious about winning, he's probably gonna turn down some of the biggest bucks out there and look for a team with good cap structure. And he will be looking for terms.
Teams that fit the bill for that(and has the ability to spend) would be Detroit, NYR, Vancouver and Chicago. Going by the recent player's poll, those four destinations are also the four most desirable teams to play for, making it extremely likely Suter would sign with one of those teams. Out of those four, Detroit has by far the most cap flexibility.
Why not a 10 yr front-loaded deal?
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 6, 6, 4, 4 = 6.7 average. If that doesn't do it, offer 9 the first five years and you get a 7.2 average.
Imo around 7-ish with terms and a NMC is reasonable. With a cap hit north of that, Suter either gives up a few contract years or years with NMC. He gets to play for a winning team, and becomes a top3 paid D in the league. He is happy. We are happy. Hfboards will crash.
The signing of Suter and/or Parise is a pipe dream. People need to realize this, and quit talking about them like they're likely to sign in Detroit.
Semin is a much more realistic option in my opinion, but I don't think the Wings will have much interest.
if signing Suter or Parise is a pipe dream if they hit the market with how much cap space the Wings have then maybe all the Holland haters have a point
I would sleep like a baby if Suter was signed with an eight million dollar cap hit.
Datsyuk would easily get 7.5 million right now.
No chance in hell Suter is signed for 6-7 million. 7.5 is the minimum IMO he plays for cap hit wise.
Wings need to offer atleast nine million per year salary wise.
If Holland walks away because he is not comfortable paying that, than the wings need a new GM.
This post is a perfect example of the absurdity on HF Boards. People can make justifications about how much Crosby and co. make and when they signed those deals vs cap amount but it's irrelevent. As good as Suter is he will not become the highest paid defensemen in the league and top 3-5 overall players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89
I really hope we land Suter, and he would be one of the first really big UFA D's to be available for a while. But, what has he done to get the largest cap hit league-wide at minimum among D's with terms? Why should he get 600k more in cap hit than Chara, for instance? Not trying to make a point here, just curious.
I think Suter's only reasoning for leaving Nashville would be the chance to win championships. And make no mistake, Nashville is a pretty darn good team so that excludes quite a few destinations(I expect at least 20-25 teams to be interested in Suter if he hits free agency). So, if he's serious about winning, he's probably gonna turn down some of the biggest bucks out there and look for a team with good cap structure. And he will be looking for terms.
Teams that fit the bill for that(and has the ability to spend) would be Detroit, NYR, Vancouver and Chicago. Going by the recent player's poll, those four destinations are also the four most desirable teams to play for, making it extremely likely Suter would sign with one of those teams. Out of those four, Detroit has by far the most cap flexibility.
Why not a 10 yr front-loaded deal?
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 6, 6, 4, 4 = 6.7 average. If that doesn't do it, offer 9 the first five years and you get a 7.2 average.
Imo around 7-ish with terms and a NMC is reasonable. With a cap hit north of that, Suter either gives up a few contract years or years with NMC. He gets to play for a winning team, and becomes a top3 paid D in the league. He is happy. We are happy. Hfboards will crash.
Finally someone mentioned what is the obvious reason for Suter wanting out in the first place. I'm not saying he wont get paid but for him to complain about Nashville not spending and wanting a chance at championships why would he go and handcuff a team by trying to get 9M like so many of you are predicting.
Suter isn't worth anything close to 9m/yr. I battled HIHD after the lockout when he wanted to sign 2 defensemen and let Lidstrom go, but that was Nick freaking Lidstrom. This is a perfect case where doing a defense by committee is a hell of a lot better idea than signing Suter to 9m/yr.
Suter isn't worth anything close to 9m/yr. I battled HIHD after the lockout when he wanted to sign 2 defensemen and let Lidstrom go, but that was Nick freaking Lidstrom. This is a perfect case where doing a defense by committee is a hell of a lot better idea than signing Suter to 9m/yr.
If the wings are going to get him they must make him the best paid defenseman, which means a caphit of 7.5M+.
10 year $83M deal
10,10,10,8,8,8,8,7,7,7 for a 8.3 caphit, get it done.
I'd honestly think everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment (which leads to rage at Holland) with all these Suter and Parise scenarios.
We'd be lucky to get one let alone both. As much as I hope it happens I don't think we'll get either but if we do I'll be ecstatic.
So basically what I mean is I'm not expecting to have Parise or Suter next year while a lot of you are and some even think we'll have both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034
if signing Suter or Parise is a pipe dream if they hit the market with how much cap space the Wings have then maybe all the Holland haters have a point
It's a pipe dream because, there is no gurantee they even make it to July 1. They could re-sign or have their rights traded and then sign with that team. Is Holland supposed to acquire both their rights? Lets just trade our next 3 drafts.
I realize you said if they hit the market but still. We have about 21m in cap space. If Lidstrom comes back its more like 15m. Plus we have to re-sign Helm, Abdelkader and Quincey who are RFAs. That brings us down to 8 or 9ish. Parise and Suter and gonna command at least 7m cap hit a piece. Its possible to get both if Lidstrom retires but still far from likely.
Last edited by Big Poppa Puck: 03-01-2012 at 08:18 AM.
If the wings are going to get him they must make him the best paid defenseman, which means a caphit of 7.5M+.
10 year $83M deal
10,10,10,8,8,8,8,7,7,7 for a 8.3 caphit, get it done.
I don't see the point in a long-term contract if you're not gonna get the cap hit down. It should be in the player's interest to get the cap hit down aswell so the team can be as good as possible. Basically, if he's signed 10yrs it should be a contract similar to Ehrhoff's, but with more $. That's kind of the only point with those contracts from a management POV. Otherwise you might aswell sign him 6 or 7 years.
I'd honestly think everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment (which leads to rage at Holland) with all these Suter and Parise scenarios.
We'd be lucky to get one let alone both. As much as I hope it happens I don't think we'll get either but if we do I'll be ecstatic.
So basically what I mean is I'm not expecting to have Parise or Suter next year while a lot of you are and some even think we'll have both.
I agree unfortunately. I'd love to have either, or both, of these guys but the chances are slim. I think Parise is much more likely as I don't think he will stay in NJ with all the financial problems the club is having. Not to mention, that like somebody previously suggested, if Nashville is unable to resign Suter they will probably trade his rights to somebody (most likely a team in the East); obviously the chances of them trading his rights to Detroit are slim to none. If either make it to free agency I like the wings chances of landing one of them, just not sure either of them will.
And then offer the same thing to Weber or slightly more next year depending on the cap. 
