To be fair, sometimes it's Pens fans who are scared when he gets the puck in the defensive zone. He often makes bad plays with the puck in that zone.
I am confident in Malkin wherever he has the puck, he can make a seemingly nothing play in to a quality scoring chance from any area of the ice. I would not want the puck on anyone else's stick moving up the ice.
If Giroux didn't play so much PK, he would be the best player in the world
lol
He's one of the very best right now... It's not that hard to imagine he'd be as good or better than Malkin point wise if those 2 and a half minutes on the PK were extra ES time, doing the math it would equal much more than 4 points actually. And defensively he's better. It's not a stretch to say Giroux isn't far from Malkin. Crosby, that's a different story.
I am confident in Malkin wherever he has the puck, he can make a seemingly nothing play in to a quality scoring chance from any area of the ice. I would not want the puck on anyone else's stick moving up the ice.
Funny. Malkin is a turnover machine, you don't want him having the puck in his own zone, leave that for Letang.
He's one of the very best right now... It's not that hard to imagine he'd be as good or better than Malkin point wise if those 2 and a half minutes on the PK were extra ES time, doing the math it would equal much more than 4 points actually. And defensively he's better. It's not a stretch to say Giroux isn't far from Malkin. Crosby, that's a different story.
they are both pretty good defensively. The difference between them in that regard is pretty much negligible. Stamkos too.
they are both pretty good defensively. The difference between them in that regard is pretty much negligible. Stamkos too.
That's false. Every stat and watching the two players would tell you Giroux is much better defensively than Malkin, not even considering the PK.
- Giroux much better at face offs
- Giroux much better takeaway/giveaway ratio
- Giroux takes much more face offs in defensive zone and finishes more shifts in opposing zone
- Giroux faces much higher qualcomp
The defensive advantage for Giroux is just as obvious as the offensive is for Malkin. Stamkos? He's behind Malkin defensively
this thread isn't about points. Malkin is far more dominant at hockey. It is clear in watching games
Remove the word FAR and I agree. Malkin is more dominant. The difference between Giroux and Malkin is malkins size. Giroux slows the game down better than anyone in the league right now, and Malkin just skates in and DUNKS on everyone. I agree Malkin is more dominant.
they are both pretty good defensively. The difference between them in that regard is pretty much negligible. Stamkos too.
Really? They're definitely not even defensively
Giroux
Malkin
Stamkos
In terms of defensive play, there's no way you can say its a non factor. Giroux takes much more defensive draws and is much better on the face offs. He back checks with the best of them and he's the top line PK on his team. I'm not a big component to advanced stats but they all heavily favor Giroux
this thread isn't about points. Malkin is far more dominant at hockey. It is clear in watching games
(I'll agree but I'm gonna put a disclaimer on it.)
Not to diminish Malkin's dominance, but he has physical attributes that Giroux for instance doesn't have. That's not to say he wouldn't be as good as he is now if he were 30 pounds lighter and shorter. Its just another factor that helps him dominate. Of course that's a double-edged sword too. Generally, a heavy player tends to be slower than a lighter player and may be less skilled with the puck in open ice. The fact that he's as fast and skilled as most any player in the league is a testament to his dominance. Very few players in history can combine size, skill, speed, and creativity the way Malkin can.
Naturally as a Flyers fan, I'm obligated by birthright to think he's the devil incarnate. But if I were neutral and honest, Malkin is at another level from the rest of league save for one other player. Just so happens that the other player plays for the Penguins too. :Sigh:
Giroux spends an average of 2:16 on the PK a game so stop blowing this up. He average 19:23 ES+PP/Game
Malkin does not PK at all and plays 21:09 ES+PP.
Are you really trying to argue that if he averaged one more ES shift or half a power player then he would be tied with malkin in points?
and imagine what Malkin would have done with those 4 games he's down on giroux..
Giroux: ES+PP TOI - 1318:30 / 84 Points = 15.7 mins to get a point.
Malkin: ES+PP TOI - 1354:27 / 88 Points = 15.4 mins to get a point.
Take Giroux's 154:30 on the PK and put that into ES+PP (9.8 points) and that would be about 94 points. Give Malkin his extra points for the 4 games he lost (5.5 points) and rounding up that makes it 94. So yeah, I'd say that puts them about equal if Giroux didn't play the PK.
Edit: None of this accounts for the large difference in where faceoffs starts, with Giroux starting much more in the defensive zone compared to Malkin much more in the offensive zone.
Edit: None of this accounts for the large difference in where faceoffs starts, with Giroux starting much more in the defensive zone compared to Malkin much more in the offensive zone.
I am confused. Why should something, that's predetermined by the coach, affect my opinion of a some player?
Sorry I forgot that people aren't allowed to be unbiased here.
Honestly I hate Malkin, he is a dirty, stupid player and I think he may be the missing link between humans and apes, but the guy can dominate games seemingly at will , no matter who the opponent is.
In terms of defensive play, there's no way you can say its a non factor. Giroux takes much more defensive draws and is much better on the face offs. He back checks with the best of them and he's the top line PK on his team. I'm not a big component to advanced stats but they all heavily favor Giroux
My point really was just to say that none of them are great defensive players. Giroux is the best of the three, but he's still not near the top tier or two of defensive forwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flin Flon Bomber
Not to diminish Malkin's dominance, but he has physical attributes that Giroux for instance doesn't have. That's not to say he wouldn't be as good as he is now if he were 30 pounds lighter and shorter. Its just another factor that helps him dominate. Of course that's a double-edged sword too. Generally, a heavy player tends to be slower than a lighter player and may be less skilled with the puck in open ice. The fact that he's as fast and skilled as most any player in the league is a testament to his dominance. Very few players in history can combine size, skill, speed, and creativity the way Malkin can.
Naturally as a Flyers fan, I'm obligated by birthright to think he's the devil incarnate. But if I were neutral and honest, Malkin is at another level from the rest of league save for one other player. Just so happens that the other player plays for the Penguins too. :Sigh:
Malkin's physical attributes are obviously a huge part of what makes him so good. You just can't teach size.
My point really was just to say that none of them are great defensive players. Giroux is the best of the three, but he's still not near the top tier or two of defensive forwards.
I would bet anything that if Bylsma used Malkin as he was used by some past coaches, this conversation doesn't even take place.
I would bet anything that if Bylsma used Malkin as he was used by some past coaches, this conversation doesn't even take place.
Pretty much. Was seen as the best 2-way player in Russia in his time there and killed penalties for Russia in the Olympics.. hell, he played extremely well defensively in the 09 playoffs; especially against Detroit.
Pretty much. Was seen as the best 2-way player in Russia in his time there and killed penalties for Russia in the Olympics.. hell, he played extremely well defensively in the 09 playoffs; especially against Detroit.
I guess Pavel datsyuks 2 way game took a huge hit eh?
