By that logic, Jordan Staal is not a great defensive player either. Just a great penalty killer.
nope. wrong. Jordan Staal would be a great defensive player if he never stepped on the ice on the penalty kill. He's been playing the role of shutdown center against top lines for years.
To be fair, I think he knows what it means, just not how it works.
To help:
Saying that being a great penalty killer does not make you a great defensive player is not equal to saying being a great penalty killer means you are not a great defensive player.
2010-2011 Frank Selke Trophy Voting: 14. Claude Giroux, PHI 25 (1-0-1-3-1)
He even got a 1st place vote.
My opinion is that he's overrated defensively and, as I said earlier in the thread, I think he's taken a step back in that department this year. His biggest asset defensively is his determination to get the puck. He'll make mistakes in coverage though, and he gives up quite a bit of size/reach, which will limit what he can do out there. He's exceptional through the neutral zone and along the walls, struggles a bit handling guys like Malkin driving to the net and slightly with positioning in the d zone.
Overall, he's a better defensive player than the other two in this poll, but he's certainly no Jordan Staal, who ironically finished just behind Giroux at 15th in the voting last year, with zero first place votes.
So one Philly beat writer gave him a 1st place vote? That doesn't mean anything.
To be fair, I think he knows what it means, just not how it works.
To help:
Saying that being a great penalty killer does not make you a great defensive player is not equal to saying being a great penalty killer means you are not a great defensive player.
nope. wrong. Jordan Staal would be a great defensive player if he never stepped on the ice on the penalty kill. He's been playing the role of shutdown center against top lines for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick87your71Poison
To be fair, I think he knows what it means, just not how it works.
To help:
Saying that being a great penalty killer does not make you a great defensive player is not equal to saying being a great penalty killer means you are not a great defensive player.
See, that would make sense if you knew what kind of style Giroux plays on the ice. And being a Flyers fan, I think I'd know just a bit more on how good he is defensively than you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner
Don't get drawn in by this black hole of logic. He'll keep fighting long after he's been proven wrong, long after.
I'd like to apologize. I didn't realize you were the be-all, end-all when it comes to hockey conversations.
See, that would make sense if you knew what kind of style Giroux plays on the ice. And being a Flyers fan, I think I'd know just a bit more on how good he is defensively than you.
That's another logical fallacy.
Being a fan of a player's team doesn't automatically give you more insight into that player's play than a non-fan.
Watching a player more doesn't automatically give you more insight either.
Having more insight into how good a player is has to do with a combination of good judgment & having watched a large enough sample size of their play.
Last edited by SkullSplitter: 03-20-2012 at 04:01 PM.
See, that would make sense if you knew what kind of style Giroux plays on the ice. And being a Flyers fan, I think I'd know just a bit more on how good he is defensively than you.
I think Matt Cooke is a better defensive player than Giroux. Don't tell me I'm wrong, you're not a Pens fan. Its hard to even type out stuff that is completely illogical. I don't know how you do it.
I think Matt Cooke is a better defensive player than Giroux. Don't tell me I'm wrong, you're not a Pens fan. Its hard to even type out stuff that is completely illogical. I don't know how you do it.
There's a difference between spewing ********(which you just did) and arguing that a guy who got voted 14th in Selke last year and probably top 5 this year, is one of the best when it comes to defensive play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla
Enough to know that he's a pretty good defensive player but not amazing. He's certainly not as good at defense as Richards was.
There's a difference between spewing ********(which you just did) and arguing that a guy who got voted 14th in Selke last year and probably top 5 this year, is one of the best when it comes to defensive play.
I'd say he's equally as good.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.
Malkin currently has 88 points with 41 goals and 47 assists in 64 games. That's a pace of 1.37 points per game. So, if he has the 7 extra games that he missed due to injury, he'd be on 97 points.
46.59% of his points are from goals with 53.41% from assists. So if he had 97 points he'd have 45 goals and 52 assists.
Now, going to his current numbers. He needs 9 goals and 12 points for 50 goals and 100 points. By looking at the teams Pittsburgh have to play you can work an average number of points per team and see where it goes;
Winnipeg - 6 points in 3 games - 2 points a game.
Nashville - N/A - N/A
Ottawa - 5 points in 3 games - 1.6 points a game.
New Jersey - 4 points in 4 games - 1 point a game.
Islanders - 5 points in 4 games - 1.25 points a game - Play twice
Buffalo - 6 points in 2 games - 3 points a game.
Flyers - 5 points in 4 games - 1.25 points a game - Play twice
Boston - 4 points in 3 games - 1.33 points a game
Rangers - 6 points in 5 games - 1.2 points a game.
So, going by averages he should get around (2+1.6+1+2.5+3+2.5+1.33+1.2) - 15.13 points for the rest of the season. Going by the percentages earlier, 7.04 of those will be goals and 8.08 will be assists.
If my numbers are right he should then finish with around;
There's a difference between spewing ********(which you just did) and arguing that a guy who got voted 14th in Selke last year and probably top 5 this year, is one of the best when it comes to defensive play.
I'd say he's equally as good.
lol he was 14th cuz of some homer Philly writer giving him a 1st place vote.
lol he was 14th cuz of some homer Philly writer giving him a 1st place vote.
Keep fighting though.
lol you have no source that it was a Philly writer and if that was the case, a Pens writer could have easily voted for Staal. Not to mention if a Philly writer was voting, they probably would have voted Richards, who finished 8th in voting.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.
I'm with you on this one. Richards should already have a selke under his belt. I believe Giroux is close to Richards but just not quite there defensively.
Yup, Malkin just put a lock on the Art and Hart, let's see if he can get the smyth for the hardware Hatrick.... He will have competition in Crosby though... Could you imagine if Crosby won the CS after missing the whole season?
Yup, Malkin just put a lock on the Art and Hart, let's see if he can get the smyth for the hardware Hatrick.... He will have competition in Crosby though... Could you imagine if Crosby won the CS after missing the whole season?
yeah, well, from a Pens fan pov, give the CS to Asham as long as the Pens win the SC...
Over the past 41 games, Malkin has 32G, 32A for 64P (or an 82 game pace of 64G, 64A for 128P). That's just 2 assists short of matching Crosby's remarkable 41 game stretch last season. I didn't think Malkin had it in him to go to the next level, but he has (he's playing better than he did in 08-09, imo). Crosby looks great and Malkin's at the top of his game... I'm really jealous.
Malkin did not have the luxury of having Kris Letang for all 41 of those games . . . Letang missed 19 of them. Malkin had Dustin Jeffrey for a second line center for 14 of those games. The Pens record is 28-11-2 in those last 41 games.
And, when you add it all up, Malkin's point total in the last 41 games, right about the time when you could tell knee soreness no longer was an issue for him, is a grand total of two assists shy of the incredible run Sidney Crosby had last year.
You people want to compare Giroux and Stamkos to that . . . what an absolute and complete ******* joke.
