Probably not, since Tavares is a point per game with a 30 goal scorer on his wing. He's not really there yet... well, compared to Malkin. I guess he's not too far off from Stamkos and Giroux.
So I converted each players SHTOI to both ESTOI and PPTOI respectively, and calculated the addition ES and PP points they would have from this increased icetime.
Using these new point totals, I calculated their production per minute for their new ice times. I then chose a standard number for ES TOI of 1300:00 and PP TOI of 300:00, and used those numbers to calculate a standardized point totals for all 3 players with the exact same ES and PP icetime. Results are the following.
Congratulations, you're officially, hands down the Biggest Giroux/Flyers hating troll on HF boards.
Calm down. It was meant as a compliment to Tavares. Giroux is in a much better situation to succeed. Tavares is still putting up 1 pt per game with a much worse supporting cast and worse power play. Giroux has 29 PP assists and a large number of secondary assists
Last edited by SteelFish87: 03-21-2012 at 09:08 AM.
So I converted each players SHTOI to both ESTOI and PPTOI respectively, and calculated the addition ES and PP points they would have from this increased icetime.
Using these new point totals, I calculated their production per minute for their new ice times. I then chose a standard number for ES TOI of 1300:00 and PP TOI of 300:00, and used those numbers to calculate a standardized point totals for all 3 players with the exact same ES and PP icetime. Results are the following.
Calm down. It was meant as a compliment to Tavares. Giroux is in a much better situation to succeed. Tavares is still putting up 1 pt per game with a much worse supporting cast and worse power play.
Maybe the Flyers PP is better because Giroux is on it? Either way both are facing the top defensive pairing every night and Giroux has turned Scott Hartnell into a top 5 goal scorer don't act like he has superstar linemates building up his assists
I was just looking through www.hockey-reference.com and I was comparing secondary assists for these 3 players. It was crazy to see Malkin only has 9 secondary assists on the whole year. (93 points on the year, that's less than 10%!) Stamkos also very impressive with just 12 to go with all those goals. Interesting enough, Giroux has 24 and had 9 in the month of February alone, what Malkin has the whole season!
'Secondary G?'
Dimishing the importance of secondary assists is just silly though.
Maybe the Flyers PP is better because Giroux is on it? Either way both are facing the top defensive pairing every night and Giroux has turned Scott Hartnell into a top 5 goal scorer don't act like he has superstar linemates building up his assists
Good point. Tavares hasn't done anything like that. Not 3 straight years for sure.
Maybe the Flyers PP is better because Giroux is on it? Either way both are facing the top defensive pairing every night and Giroux has turned Scott Hartnell into a top 5 goal scorer don't act like he has superstar linemates building up his assists
Hartnell without Giroux:
2009-2010- 14 Goals
2010-2011- 24 Goals
Hartnell with Giroux:
2011-2012- 35 Goals (projected to finish with 39 Goals)
Moulson has scored 30+ each of his last 3 seasons with and without Tavares.
Good point. Tavares hasn't done anything like that. Not 3 straight years for sure.
Yeah I know don't get what you're trying to say? I don't remember Tavares making Scott Hartnell a top 5 goal scorer unless you were saying he allows Hartnell to score on him?
I guess you're talking about facing the top defensive pair ok? Giroux has 11 more points in 4 less games and taveras has more ice time and less Pk time. I don't know what you're getting at?
Yeah I know don't get what you're trying to say? I don't remember Tavares making Scott Hartnell a top 5 goal scorer unless you were saying he allows Hartnell to score on him?
I guess you're talking about facing the top defensive pair ok? Giroux has 11 more points in 4 less games and taveras has more ice time and less Pk time. I don't know what you're getting at?
Matt Moulson has scored 30+ playing alongside Tavares. So unless your saying Moulson > Hartnell, they've both helped 30+ goal scorers.
Don't have access to behindthenet or anything to check % of time they played together for all 3 seasons, but for certain they've been together the past 2, if not all 3.
Matt Moulson has scored 30+ playing alongside Tavares. So unless your saying Moulson > Hartnell, they've both helped 30+ goal scorers.
Don't have access to behindthenet or anything to check % of time they played together for all 3 seasons, but for certain they've been together the past 2, if not all 3.
It has already been stated, Moulson has had 3 years in a row 30+ goals, hes a very good goal scorer and is underrated. He had 30+ without Tavares already. Moulson would probably score more than Hartnell is now with Giroux or just the same. Tavares is not as good a play maker as Giroux
It has already been stated, Moulson has had 3 years in a row 30+ goals, hes a very good goal scorer and is underrated. He had 30+ without Tavares already. Moulson would probably score more than Hartnell is now with Giroux or just the same. Tavares is not as good a play maker as Giroux
Also P.A Parenteau I find to be very underrated, he's actually a very good playmaker. A lot of people label Tavares' linemates as crap, meanwhile he actually has the luxury of not only playing with but having chemistry with a very good goalscorer and playmaker. He's not nearly as good as Giroux right now, it's not even a debate.
Also P.A Parenteau I find to be very underrated, he's actually a very good playmaker. A lot of people label Tavares' linemates as crap, meanwhile he actually has the luxury of not only playing with but having chemistry with a very good goalscorer and playmaker. He's not nearly as good as Giroux right now, it's not even a debate.
I agree, the line mate advantage that Giroux has over Tavares isn't all that significant. At times the 1st line has been with Hartnell and Simmonds, P.A and Moulson has outscored those guys in past years prior to them playing with Giroux.
It has already been stated, Moulson has had 3 years in a row 30+ goals, hes a very good goal scorer and is underrated. He had 30+ without Tavares already. Moulson would probably score more than Hartnell is now with Giroux or just the same. Tavares is not as good a play maker as Giroux
Doesn't Hartnell have a 30 goal season playing with Carter (I believe they were paired, and not Richards, correct me if I am wrong).
I won't argue Giroux is the better playmaker of the two, but the initial post I responded to -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keaver
Maybe the Flyers PP is better because Giroux is on it? Either way both are facing the top defensive pairing every night and Giroux has turned Scott Hartnell into a top 5 goal scorer don't act like he has superstar linemates building up his assists
makes it sound like Giroux is the only reason Hartnell has 30+. Moulson and Parenteau are nice players, but let's not pretend they are worlds ahead, if at all, of Hartnell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor
Also P.A Parenteau I find to be very underrated, he's actually a very good playmaker. A lot of people label Tavares' linemates as crap, meanwhile he actually has the luxury of not only playing with but having chemistry with a very good goalscorer and playmaker. He's not nearly as good as Giroux right now, it's not even a debate.
So he's penalized for having chemistry with those guys? I guess Hartnell is scoring goals without chemistry? Either Hartnell is scoring more than ever before because of Giroux, because they have chemistry together, same as Tavares-Moulson, or he's scoring 30+ in spite of Giroux, which invalidates the original argument
I won't say he's better than Giroux. But I'll stand by my initial statement that, IMO, he's not out of place being included in the top 10 forwards in the league.
I won't say he's better than Giroux. But I'll stand by my initial statement that, IMO, he's not out of place being included in the top 10 forwards in the league.
Hartnell's best season was 30 goals he's on pace to beat that by 9 goals with Giroux. I never said he wasn't a top 10 forward, the way you phrased things made it seem like you were saying Taveras is better than Giroux which isn't the case.
Stamkos shouldn't even be getting Hart trophy votes on a 12th place team (Lindsay votes sure). Hart trophy vote-contenders after Malkin (who should be a unanimous 1st place choice) should include Karlsson, Lundqvist, Giroux, Quick, Kovalchuk, and possibly a few others.
Yeah you should see my excel table, I colour coded it and everything. Proud piece of work. :p
