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Brady: A major rift between Phaneuf and a younger player.

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02-29-2012, 06:24 PM
  #252
Frankie
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Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
of course it matters. it's not all that matters.

if all those guys are such great leaders why are their teams in such disarray? maybe it has more to do with the team than the one individual?
winning is all that matters. how else is a captain supposed to lead? leading his team to wins....isn't that the whole idea?

if the team is losing, but the captain is taking the rookies out to dinner and a movie, that's good leadership? you're happy with that?

as for getzlaf, staal, iginla, i'm not sure any of them are great leaders, i certainly never said they were. do you think they are?

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02-29-2012, 06:27 PM
  #253
Patty Lee
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
winning is all that matters. how else is a captain supposed to lead? leading his team to wins....isn't that the whole idea?

if the team is losing, but the captain is taking the rookies out to dinner and a movie, that's good leadership? you're happy with that?

as for getzlaf, staal, iginla, i'm not sure any of them are great leaders, i certainly never said they were. do you think they are?
okay, so the guy who wore # 93 for the Leafs, was he a good leader?

cause he didn't win here when in Toronto. pretty sure most people agree he was a darn good leader. how do you explain that?

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02-29-2012, 06:27 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Ahh yes the famous 'he's not a good leader until he wins a cup' argument.

If that is the case, every Leaf captain since Armstrong sucked.

Your standards, not mine.
none of them accomplished what a leader of a hockey team is supposed to.

did they suck? possibly. did they fail to lead their team to the ultimate goal? yes.

that is definitely my standard. i'm amazed its not the standard of each and every fan. its stunning to me that so many fans are willing to accept such poor results.

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02-29-2012, 06:35 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
Oh please, You are going to say that Dion's leadership is in question because the team isn't winning?
yes, of course. what else is he supposed to lead the team to, if not wins?

how else can a captain ultimately be judged?

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Look at LA, There are plenty of teams around the league who have some great Captains but their teams are underachieving.
i'm looking at the la kings. who's the great captain on that team? dustin brown? he's a great captain? how do you know?

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This is not directed at you directly Frankie but Toronto fans can be quite classless, The fire Wilson chants at the ACC the other night was a classic example of that.

Other examples are booing players when they touch the puck, heckling your own players, throwing ****ing Eggo's on the ice. I also understand that Toronto has some of the most passionate and loyal fans in the league but it's frustrating and embarrassing to see how much of a mess our team is in right how and how the fans are only adding fuel to the fire. Getting down on the team Booing them and chanting negative stuff is not going to solve anything.

People need to get behind their team and cheer for them. It's harder to support someone when their down then when their up.
a tremendous attempt again to deflect blame from where it really lies. amazing how some fans refuse to blame the team for its own failures.

booing and chanting negative things isn't going to solve anything. but neither is cheering and pretending everything is wonderful.

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02-29-2012, 06:35 PM
  #256
Patty Lee
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
none of them accomplished what a leader of a hockey team is supposed to.

did they suck? possibly. did they fail to lead their team to the ultimate goal? yes.

that is definitely my standard. i'm amazed its not the standard of each and every fan. its stunning to me that so many fans are willing to accept such poor results.
maybe it's cause the rest of us live in the real world where we use words as there are defined and not what we make them up to be?

Traits of a Good Leader

Compiled by the Santa Clara University and the Tom Peters Group:

Honest — Display sincerity, integrity, and candor in all your actions. Deceptive behavior will not inspire trust.
Competent — Base your actions on reason and moral principles. Do not make decisions based on childlike emotional desires or feelings.
Forward-looking — Set goals and have a vision of the future. The vision must be owned throughout the organization. Effective leaders envision what they want and how to get it. They habitually pick priorities stemming from their basic values.
Inspiring — Display confidence in all that you do. By showing endurance in mental, physical, and spiritual stamina, you will inspire others to reach for new heights. Take charge when necessary.
Intelligent — Read, study, and seek challenging assignments.
Fair-minded — Show fair treatment to all people. Prejudice is the enemy of justice. Display empathy by being sensitive to the feelings, values, interests, and well-being of others.
Broad-minded — Seek out diversity.
Courageous — Have the perseverance to accomplish a goal, regardless of the seemingly insurmountable obstacles. Display a confident calmness when under stress.
Straightforward — Use sound judgment to make a good decisions at the right time.
Imaginative — Make timely and appropriate changes in your thinking, plans, and methods. Show creativity by thinking of new and better goals, ideas, and solutions to problems. Be innovative!

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02-29-2012, 06:43 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
okay, so the guy who wore # 93 for the Leafs, was he a good leader?

cause he didn't win here when in Toronto. pretty sure most people agree he was a darn good leader. how do you explain that?
yeah, i'd say he was a pretty darn good leader. he didn't take any nights off, seemed to be highly respected by his teammates.

can he be considered a great leader, given the fact he didn't win the cup in toronto? i don't think he can. to be considered a great, elite nhl captain, i believe you have to win the stanley cup.

can you answer some of the questions i've asked you? so you believe getzlaf, staal, iginla are great leaders?

and considering you've said you cannot judge phaneuf, given that you haven't seen him first hand, how do you judge him or any other captain?

you've said there's no basis to say he isn't a good captain, but is there any basis to say he is a good captain? where's the evidence of that?

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02-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
yeah, i'd say he was a pretty darn good leader. he didn't take any nights off, seemed to be highly respected by his teammates.

can he be considered a great leader, given the fact he didn't win the cup in toronto? i don't think he can. to be considered a great, elite nhl captain, i believe you have to win the stanley cup.
Is it possible to win a Cup and not be a great captain?

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02-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
maybe it's cause the rest of us live in the real world where we use words as there are defined and not what we make them up to be?
in the real world, none of that nonsense that professor spewed matters at all.

in the real world, its black and white. if the ceo of a company isn't getting the results he's supposed to get, he gets fired.

he may have all those qualities, he may have a lousy team working under him, but he's responsible and he gets fired and replaced. that's how the real world works.

no excuses, no blaming fans, no blaming just plain old bad luck. its all about results, and nothing else matters.

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02-29-2012, 06:48 PM
  #260
Patty Lee
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
yeah, i'd say he was a pretty darn good leader. he didn't take any nights off, seemed to be highly respected by his teammates.

can he be considered a great leader, given the fact he didn't win the cup in toronto? i don't think he can. to be considered a great, elite nhl captain, i believe you have to win the stanley cup.

can you answer some of the questions i've asked you? so you believe getzlaf, staal, iginla are great leaders?

and considering you've said you cannot judge phaneuf, given that you haven't seen him first hand, how do you judge him or any other captain?

you've said there's no basis to say he isn't a good captain, but is there any basis to say he is a good captain? where's the evidence of that?
if you could read you would see earlier I said there are as many reports of him being a good leader as there are him not. and I also said I don't know if he is.

I can only go on what the players/coaches say about anyone's leadership skills. all I've ever said is there is nothing to say to me he isn't. Other than a bunch of blowhards on this board saying he isn't. but since they have no idea, I take their opinions for what they are worth.

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02-29-2012, 06:50 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Is it possible to win a Cup and not be a great captain?
if you've won the cup, you've led your team as well or better than anyone else has led their team.

you win the cup, i think you can be considered a great captain.

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02-29-2012, 06:50 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
in the real world, none of that nonsense that professor spewed matters at all.

in the real world, its black and white. if the ceo of a company isn't getting the results he's supposed to get, he gets fired.

he may have all those qualities, he may have a lousy team working under him, but he's responsible and he gets fired and replaced. that's how the real world works.

no excuses, no blaming fans, no blaming just plain old bad luck. its all about results, and nothing else matters.
Except a CEO is in a position of power whereby he can eliminate people who do not fit into the corporate structure he desires, something the captain of a hockey team cannot do.

Also, it's been noted that Phaneuf has barked orders at Burke to get him bigger players, so it's not like he hasn't voiced his opinion.

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02-29-2012, 06:51 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
in the real world, none of that nonsense that professor spewed matters at all.

in the real world, its black and white. if the ceo of a company isn't getting the results he's supposed to get, he gets fired.

he may have all those qualities, he may have a lousy team working under him, but he's responsible and he gets fired and replaced. that's how the real world works.

no excuses, no blaming fans, no blaming just plain old bad luck. its all about results, and nothing else matters.
excellent. thanks for the life lesson.

any other words that society defines differently than you? just so I can start using them correctly too.

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02-29-2012, 06:55 PM
  #264
Leafidelity
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Some of you guys drastically overrate the impact a Captain has. Almost as if you've never played the game before and go by movies.

Frankie expects Mel Gibson in Braveheart.


Last edited by Leafidelity: 02-29-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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02-29-2012, 06:55 PM
  #265
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if you've won the cup, you've led your team as well or better than anyone else has led their team.

you win the cup, i think you can be considered a great captain.
What evidence do you have to support the "fact" the captain lead anything?

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02-29-2012, 06:58 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
if you could read you would see earlier I said there are as many reports of him being a good leader as there are him not. and I also said I don't know if he is.

I can only go on what the players/coaches say about anyone's leadership skills. all I've ever said is there is nothing to say to me he isn't. Other than a bunch of blowhards on this board saying he isn't. but since they have no idea, I take their opinions for what they are worth.
so, you have no idea. you cannot comment on the leadership of any nhl captain.

his fellow players are not ever going to say he's not a good leader. at least not in public.

those on this board who say he is a good leader, also a bunch of blowhards who have no idea what they're talking about?

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02-29-2012, 07:02 PM
  #267
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Except a CEO is in a position of power whereby he can eliminate people who do not fit into the corporate structure he desires, something the captain of a hockey team cannot do.
fair point, perhaps a better ceo comparison would be the coach, if not gm of an nhl team.

my point remains, in the real world its all about results.

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Also, it's been noted that Phaneuf has barked orders at Burke to get him bigger players, so it's not like he hasn't voiced his opinion.
its been "noted"? by whom? is this any more credible than the report that is being ripped to shreds in this thread?

if true, good on phaneuf for voicing his opinion. not sure what that proves though.

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02-29-2012, 07:04 PM
  #268
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its been "noted"? by whom? is this any more credible than the report that is being ripped to shreds in this thread?
That would be Brian Burke saying that. From when Phaneuf first came to the team.

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02-29-2012, 07:05 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
so, you have no idea. you cannot comment on the leadership of any nhl captain.

his fellow players are not ever going to say he's not a good leader. at least not in public.

those on this board who say he is a good leader, also a bunch of blowhards who have no idea what they're talking about?
of course I can give my opinion. but what's that worth to guys like you?

there are obvious leaders on any team. I determine them by their actions on the ice, the way they talk, the way others talk about them. but who knows what goes on behind closed doors, or on the bench.

not every captain is the biggest leader on a team either. but of course as I've learned tonight, if that team wins, they automatically are now considered a GREAT leader because they won the cup.

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02-29-2012, 07:07 PM
  #270
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What evidence do you have to support the "fact" the captain lead anything?
none, other than the fact that he's the captain. as i understand it, most captains take on the responsibility of leadership.

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02-29-2012, 07:20 PM
  #271
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That would be Brian Burke saying that. From when Phaneuf first came to the team.
oh. so no, no more credible than the report this thread is based on.

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02-29-2012, 07:36 PM
  #272
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none, other than the fact that he's the captain. as i understand it, most captains take on the responsibility of leadership.

I believe you meant to say "are assigned", not necessarily "take on".

I take it you haven't been around many teams and definitely not around any military.

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02-29-2012, 07:44 PM
  #273
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boy, Dion is showing great leadership so far tonight. I mean he must be, they're up 3-1

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02-29-2012, 07:53 PM
  #274
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I believe you meant to say "are assigned", not necessarily "take on".

I take it you haven't been around many teams and definitely not around any military.
yeah, "assigned" might be a better word. i assume most nhl captains do willingly take on the leadership responsibility though, and embrace it and try to do their best with it. maybe that's naive on my part.

i've been around a couple of hockey teams. never been around any military.

do you have a point?

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02-29-2012, 07:54 PM
  #275
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boy, Dion is showing great leadership so far tonight. I mean he must be, they're up 3-1
yes, i'd say so.

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