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Old
07-24-2012, 05:45 PM
  #751
IHaveNoCreativity
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Says who?



I'm not so sure about that...had we not landed Parise/Suter, I think Fletcher may have been tempted to move a prospect or two in order to improve our NHL roster. Remember, he and Leipold are feeling the heat to make the playoffs NOW, not a few years down the road.
Lack of quality on D ??

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07-24-2012, 05:50 PM
  #752
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Lack of quality on D ??
I think the quality is good enough to get into the playoffs and maybe do some damage. With the addition of Suter, I'll think we'll see improvement from Scandella in that 2nd pairing with Gilbert and I'm think Spurgeon will improve as well playing along side Suter.

I'm not predicting a Cup Final appearance, but I think expectations should be raised to where we can get into the playoffs and win a series at least.

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07-24-2012, 05:51 PM
  #753
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.had we not landed Parise/Suter,

But we did!

Therefore our prospects stays at least a little longer..

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07-24-2012, 05:53 PM
  #754
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But we did!

Therefore our prospects stays at least a little longer..
Yeah, but my point was that Fletcher WOULD consider trading a prospect if he felt that it would improve the team. Obviously, with the UFA signings, the chances of that happening are alot less likely. But I don't think it would be out of the question.

.


Last edited by MuckOG: 07-24-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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07-24-2012, 06:06 PM
  #755
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I see the defense as what is holding this team back. What they have up front at the forward position and in net would be good enough to make some noise if they had a competent back end. As it stands, it makes this team a fringe playoff squad in my estimation. At the very least, it's the unit that I believe will be the reason why they will not be in any sort of serious contention for the division which in turn is why I view them as a fringe team.

What we know of these players as of today:
Suter -- Legit #1/2 on most any team
Spurgeon -- #4 defenseman
Gilbert -- #4 defenseman
Scandella -- Ideally, shouldn't have seen meaningful NHL time at this stage. #5/6
Stoner -- #6/7
Falk -- #6/7
Prosser -- AHL player

You can go to war with players like Suter, Gilbert, and Spurgeon on your blue line in any combination. But beyond that, it's a whole lot of trash and hoping you find some progression and/or consistency with youth coming up. To me, that's a recipe to be very concerned this season. And that's ignoring the elephant in the room that are injuries. Lose any of the previously stated three for any sort of significant stretch and they're in trouble.

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07-24-2012, 06:15 PM
  #756
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There's a major drop after Suter.. We need a true #2.

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07-24-2012, 06:24 PM
  #757
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I love Suter, but honestly, we're not even sure how he'll play without Weber.

We can't be completely positive that he's a legitimate #1 D-man until we've seen him play with a different partner.

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07-24-2012, 06:31 PM
  #758
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I love Suter, but honestly, we're not even sure how he'll play without Weber.

We can't be completely positive that he's a legitimate #1 D-man until we've seen him play with a different partner.
I suppose you can say the same thing about Weber, right? I won't deny that it helps playing along side a talent like Weber...but Weber obviously benefited by playing along side of Suter. I think they are both legitimate #1 defensemen.

As for Suter, we've seen him play with a different partner in the Olympics....he looked just fine. I'm not worried about him at all.

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07-24-2012, 06:35 PM
  #759
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You could absolutely say the same thing about Weber. I'm interested to see which player benefited more from playing with the other.

Who did Suter play alongside during the Olympics? Probably no slouch...

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07-24-2012, 06:40 PM
  #760
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You could absolutely say the same thing about Weber. I'm interested to see which player benefited more from playing with the other.

Who did Suter play alongside during the Olympics? Probably no slouch...
I think he was paired with Brian Rafalski for the most part......

Here is a list of the defensemen from that squad:

•Brian Rafalski, 36 (Detroit Red Wings)
•Ryan Suter, 25 (Nashville Predators)
•Erik Johnson, 21 (St. Louis Blues)
•Brooks Orpik, 29 (Pittsburgh Pittsburgh)
•Jack Johnson, 23 (Los Angeles Kings)
•Ryan Whitney, 26 (Anaheim Ducks) -
•Tim Gleason, 27 (Carolina Hurricanes) -

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07-24-2012, 06:42 PM
  #761
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Rafalski...

Suter being paired with Spurgeon makes so much more sense now!

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07-24-2012, 06:42 PM
  #762
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I wouldn't call our defense incompetent. I'd take this starting group over last year, and that cluster ffff still ended mid pack defensively

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07-24-2012, 06:45 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
I see the defense as what is holding this team back. What they have up front at the forward position and in net would be good enough to make some noise if they had a competent back end. As it stands, it makes this team a fringe playoff squad in my estimation. At the very least, it's the unit that I believe will be the reason why they will not be in any sort of serious contention for the division which in turn is why I view them as a fringe team.

What we know of these players as of today:
Suter -- Legit #1/2 on most any team
Spurgeon -- #4 defenseman
Gilbert -- #4 defenseman
Scandella -- Ideally, shouldn't have seen meaningful NHL time at this stage. #5/6
Stoner -- #6/7
Falk -- #6/7
Prosser -- AHL player

You can go to war with players like Suter, Gilbert, and Spurgeon on your blue line in any combination. But beyond that, it's a whole lot of trash and hoping you find some progression and/or consistency with youth coming up. To me, that's a recipe to be very concerned this season. And that's ignoring the elephant in the room that are injuries. Lose any of the previously stated three for any sort of significant stretch and they're in trouble.
i would have written this but I complain about it so often I forget what I've written and my posts keep progressing in their brevity.

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07-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Rafalski...

Suter being paired with Spurgeon makes so much more sense now!
Yep...both smallish and offensively-minded, and both came into the NHL unheralded......I'm not ready to proclaim Spurgeon the next Brian Rafalski, by any stretch, but I was impressed with the improvement in his game last season.

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07-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
I see the defense as what is holding this team back. What they have up front at the forward position and in net would be good enough to make some noise if they had a competent back end. As it stands, it makes this team a fringe playoff squad in my estimation. At the very least, it's the unit that I believe will be the reason why they will not be in any sort of serious contention for the division which in turn is why I view them as a fringe team.

What we know of these players as of today:
Suter -- Legit #1/2 on most any team
Spurgeon -- #4 defenseman
Gilbert -- #4 defenseman
Scandella -- Ideally, shouldn't have seen meaningful NHL time at this stage. #5/6
Stoner -- #6/7
Falk -- #6/7
Prosser -- AHL player

You can go to war with players like Suter, Gilbert, and Spurgeon on your blue line in any combination. But beyond that, it's a whole lot of trash and hoping you find some progression and/or consistency with youth coming up. To me, that's a recipe to be very concerned this season. And that's ignoring the elephant in the room that are injuries. Lose any of the previously stated three for any sort of significant stretch and they're in trouble.
Scandella's ceiling is hardly 5/6. His highs have been a number #3 and his lows have been AHL. Where he ends up is anyone guess but if he is paired with Gilbert they will be just fine as a 2nd pairing.

You're right though, its going to be a hodgepodge defense this year. If Suter and Spurgeon can mesh well the D will be fine. If they cant - then gilbert or scandella will be forced to play above their head and it could get messy.


Last edited by Casper: 07-24-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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07-24-2012, 06:56 PM
  #766
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I wouldn't call our defense incompetent. I'd take this starting group over last year, and that cluster ffff still ended mid pack defensively
The problem with our group is inexperience and highend depth more than anything right now.

there is talent in a top 5 of:
Suter
Gilbert
Brodin
Spurgeon
Scandella

and a bottom pairing with one or two of Falk, Stoner, and Prosser will be adequate (for now).

The question is how can that group hold up physically throughout an 82 + game season...

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07-24-2012, 07:04 PM
  #767
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Scandella's ceiling is hardly 5/6. His highs have been a number #3 and his lows have been AHL. Where he ends up is anyone guess but if he is paired with Gilbert they will be just fine as a 2nd pairing.
I don't care what his ceiling is thought to be several years down the road. What I posted is in response to what the defense will look like this season. At this point, he's no better than what he should be on most any team with a sound defensive corps; a bottom pairing defenseman who needs to play sheltered minutes. And like I referenced, if this defensive unit were anything above serviceable, this is a kid who should be spending most of his year outside of the NHL...

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07-24-2012, 07:13 PM
  #768
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I don't care what his ceiling is thought to be several years down the road. What I posted is in response to what the defense will look like this season. At this point, he's no better than what he should be on most any team with a sound defensive corps; a bottom pairing defenseman who needs to play sheltered minutes. And like I referenced, if this defensive unit were anything above serviceable, this is a kid who should be spending most of his year outside of the NHL...
I'm not following you onto the Scandella hate wagon. I liked how he played with Gilbert at the end of last season, and I'm curious to see if it continues into this one. Young defensemen have their ups and downs; it's all part of the process.

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07-24-2012, 07:15 PM
  #769
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I'm not following you onto the Scandella hate wagon. I liked how he played with Gilbert at the end of last season, and I'm curious to see if it continues into this one. Young defensemen have their ups and downs; it's all part of the process.
Especially 22 year old defensemen....I think we'll see Scandella take his biggest step this season. A perfect situation to settle into pairing up with Gilbert on that 2nd pairing.

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07-24-2012, 07:16 PM
  #770
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I wouldn't call our defense incompetent. I'd take this starting group over last year, and that cluster ffff still ended mid pack defensively
The majority of our Dmen are quite young and a lot of them lack the physical size imo to be a good Dman. Speed is the one thing our guys have that most teams dont.

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07-24-2012, 07:16 PM
  #771
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I don't care what his ceiling is thought to be several years down the road. What I posted is in response to what the defense will look like this season. At this point, he's no better than what he should be on most any team with a sound defensive corps; a bottom pairing defenseman who needs to play sheltered minutes. And like I referenced, if this defensive unit were anything above serviceable, this is a kid who should be spending most of his year outside of the NHL...
let me clarify. Last year when were winning Scandella played a huge part. He was making good decisions and looking like he would stick. When everything fell apart, he was the first to go.

He went down to houston for a couple of months and then came back up as Gilbert's partner. Those two played some big minutes for this team. Now you take those two and give them second pairing minutes they will do just fine. If this unit can stay healthy (dangerous if, i know) Gilbert and Scandella can make a serviceable 2nd pairing.

I do think that this team is still a fringe playoff team. Until Brodin is up to the task (or a real #2 defensemen is brought in) and our second line gets bigger/faster, we will be between 10-6 place in the conference.

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07-24-2012, 07:37 PM
  #772
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If Ryan is the type of player that gets you over the hump, wouldn't it make more sense to get that player when they are actually available? What happens if we have a deep playoff run this year, and then find out the best player on the trade market next off-season is an aging Iginla or Thorton? Then what?
He's not. End of discussion.

That's the biggest thing that some people don't get. We're not a Bobby Ryan away from a Stanley Cup. As assembled, this is a good NHL team, but not a strong contender for a cup. Bobby Ryan instead of Devin Setoguchi does make us a better team, but it doesn't make us a cup favorite.

Adding Bobby Ryan would not get us a cup.

Exchanging quality assets for Ryan would make the team marginally better, while dramatically reducing the number of assets we have available for a trade that would actually meaningfully improve this team. The cost of Bobby Ryan is not offset by the value he would bring to this team's roster. No matter how you try and twist things, cut prospects or players down, over inflate his value, understate the price, misrepresent other posters' statements, or angle the argument, the fact of the matter is that Bobby Ryan does not make this team a cup favorite and he is not worth the (justifiably) high price that Anaheim will command for him.

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07-24-2012, 07:42 PM
  #773
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i really didn't think Scandella was a huge part of any winning streak we had. it would have been nice, but we were winning mostly in spite of our defense with a lot of support defensively from our offense.

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07-24-2012, 07:53 PM
  #774
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I'm not following you onto the Scandella hate wagon. I liked how he played with Gilbert at the end of last season, and I'm curious to see if it continues into this one. Young defensemen have their ups and downs; it's all part of the process.
I don't so much hate Scandella rather, just fail to see what people are seeing in him that makes them believe he's capable of playing any sort of meaningful and consistent minutes at this point in time.

You are correct in saying young defensemen will have their ups and downs. That's precisely my point. Ideally, those ups and downs should be ironed out in situations that don't negatively effect the team (i.e. Houston or limited minutes). For a team that doesn't have much room for error, they can't afford to ice what he showed last season.

It is what it is right now and the Wild aren't exactly over-flowing with riches on the blue line that are ready. However, Scandella is a long ways off of what some people are believing/penciling-in him as...

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07-24-2012, 09:44 PM
  #775
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Would be all for a Ryan trade.

I'd be more interested in somebody like Enstrom, he would be a perfect fit. I think Fletch could easily convince him to an extension also...

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