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So we are going to be drafting a potential franchise player this summer (Tank Talk)

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:56 PM
  #51
Bronn
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Franchise player is big. Yakupov might be one, but I'm not sure Grigorenko is. Outside those two anyways, I don't think there's one that's perceived to have this potential.
Murray has been compared to Scott Niedermayer so perhaps him as well but personally i'm not convinced.

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #52
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I really hate the state this team is in right now, but I think Galenchuck/Grigs could go a long way for our future. As soon as we can get some good Coaching/Management we should be okay in 2-3 years to really contend for the cup!! I really believe that, its not like our core is hurting because we have a very good Core to build from. As for now I am still cheering for them and hate seeing them lose but it is in their best interst to lose right now. Come April I'll be cheering for Nashville (loved the story on TooToo on SportsCenter) and cheering for Pitts in the East Depending on If Crosby comes back which I really hope he does, love to watch him play.

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Old
02-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What does this even mean? Only superstars are worth 1st round picks? Is that your argument?
His argument is the other way around actually. He is saying that Washington's first would not be worth Pleks, and he's mostly right. There is no way we would have to add a second to Pleks tog et Washington's first.

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02-29-2012, 04:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by The Reem View Post
Murray has been compared to Scott Niedermayer so perhaps him as well but personally i'm not convinced.
People are talking about the 'big 4' but I see Murray being picked even #2.

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02-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Zetterberg was a 7th round pick.

What are we even talking about?
7th round eh

darn we should have traded our 1st for 6 7th round picks

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Old
02-29-2012, 04:07 PM
  #56
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I sure as hell hope so. This club desperately needs a young franchise forward. Max Pac is the closest thing we have. And although he's very good I definitely wouldn't say he's "franchise level" material.

A Nail Yakupov especially, would help this club go a long way.

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02-29-2012, 04:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
People are talking about the 'big 4' but I see Murray being picked even #2.
Him, or Dumba... Both or one of them will go before galchenyuk for sure. And most likely before Grigorenko and maybe even Forsberg.

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02-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #58
Bronn
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
People are talking about the 'big 4' but I see Murray being picked even #2.
Yeah i could see the Oilers picking Murray at #2 since they greatly need an elite blue chip prospect defensemen in their system.

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Old
02-29-2012, 04:23 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Like Blake Wheeler haha.
Prepare to have your mind blown...

Wheeler has 51 points in 63 games this season. That's more than any forward drafted after him this season.

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #60
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Obviously, we've reached the point where playoffs are out of the question and strategy needs to be adjusted accordingly. The best strategy is one that produces the highest draft position possible.

However, this means losing, and losing within the rules of the game. I'm guessing that even if losing is to the teams greatest advantage, that this cannot be communicated to the players, nor can it be effectively implemented without giving the strategy away to outside observers. I'm further guessing that it's against the rules to intentionally lose. So my question is:

1) What are the official rules regarding tanking? What are the penalties involved if caught?

2) What passive tactics can be employed? Can the GM ice a bad team? If so, what's the worst team we can possibly ice with the end game of losing? Can Price be benched for extended periods of time? What about our star players? If you try to lose, you take your chances.

3) What instructions, if any, can be communicated to the players so that everyone is on the same page? At some point do the players "just know" that the team benefits in the long term from short term losses? Or do personal gains (getting points for a better future contract) outweigh team gains (getting an awesome draft pick)?

I realize there's that whole "being a professional" thing that impedes players from tanking, but once losing becomes a net gain how do managers, coaches and players avoid the inevitable pull toward doing what's best for the team?
1. Don't know if there are official rules or clearly defined penalties. But I imagine that if you could prove that a 'tank' had occured, the league could strip you of the pick.

2. All those things can happen and you could 'get away with it'. But if you only play your backup and not Price for the rest of the season there would be questions.

3. None. You can't communicate 'tanking' to anyone. Your players are going to play to win.

At the end of the day, you can't "try to lose." What you can do though is deal away players for prospects and picks. There's no problem with rebuilding your team. You just can't deliberately try to lose.

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02-29-2012, 06:30 PM
  #61
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We used our last number 1 overall pick to take Wickenheiser over Savard. A high pick means nothing.

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02-29-2012, 06:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
We're currently in the # 3 spot. Cam Barker was selected 3rd overall. There's no guarantee we get a franchise player.
Exactly.

As usual, the Habs are out of sync. They gonna draft 2nd/3rd or 4th the year where the talent is not that great. And they will probably pick the wrong guy.


Do you think they might trade that pick to Columbus for Nash ?

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:34 PM
  #63
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Looking at the final 18 games from a tanking perspective...

Probably the most important 18 games in recent history, our beloved Canadiens are facing a relatively easy competition (bad thing for tanking)...

  • Only 7 games are with playoff teams.
  • 8 games at home, 10 on the road - not good nor bad given the stats
  • two back to back games (march 30-31 / april 4-5)
  • Huge Losses up for grabs against Hurricanes, Islanders and Oilers.. definitely must lose games.

What do you guys think of this schedule?

I think it's very realistic that we we get 20-22 points (9w-7L-2otl)

Which would put us at 70 points


Quote:
Date visitor home time (et) tv network/results
thu, 1 mar 2012 wild canadiens
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd) tickets
sat, 3 mar 2012 maple leafs canadiens
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd), nhln-us(hd) tickets
tue, 6 mar 2012 canadiens flames
9:00 pm rds(hd), tsn-habs(hd)
thu, 8 mar 2012 canadiens oilers
9:30 pm rds(hd), tsn-habs(hd)
sat, 10 mar 2012 canadiens canucks
10:00 pm cbc, rds(hd)
mon, 12 mar 2012 canadiens sabres
7:00 pm rds(hd), tsn
wed, 14 mar 2012 senators canadiens
7:30 pm rds(hd), tsn tickets
fri, 16 mar 2012 canadiens senators
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd)
sat, 17 mar 2012 islanders canadiens
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd) tickets
wed, 21 mar 2012 canadiens sabres
7:00 pm rds(hd)
fri, 23 mar 2012 senators canadiens
7:30 pm rds(hd), tsn-habs(hd) tickets
sat, 24 mar 2012 canadiens flyers
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd)
tue, 27 mar 2012 panthers canadiens
7:30 pm rds(hd), tsn-habs(hd) tickets
fri, 30 mar 2012 canadiens rangers
7:30 pm rds(hd), tsn, nhln-us(hd)
sat, 31 mar 2012 canadiens capitals
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd), nhln-us(hd)
april 2012
date visitor home time (et) tv network/results
wed, 4 apr 2012 lightning canadiens
7:30 pm tsn, rds(hd) tickets
thu, 5 apr 2012 canadiens hurricanes
7:00 pm rds(hd), tsn-habs(hd)
sat, 7 apr 2012 maple leafs canadiens
7:00 pm cbc, rds(hd) tickets

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:34 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Prepare to have your mind blown...

Wheeler has 51 points in 63 games this season. That's more than any forward drafted after him this season.
The problem with Blake Wheeler is everyone expected him to play like his height. Once everyone finally accepted that he was a skill guy he started breaking out, and suddenly he's a legitimate playmaking winger.

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:36 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The problem with Blake Wheeler is everyone expected him to play like his height. Once everyone finally accepted that he was a skill guy he started breaking out, and suddenly he's a legitimate playmaking winger.
Same with Latendresse.

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:37 PM
  #66
Lafleurs Guy
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What is the talent like this year? I hear it's Yakupov and everybody else... Any other franchise players in this draft or is it 1996?

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:38 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Probably the most important 18 games in recent history, our beloved Canadiens are facing a relatively easy competition (bad thing for tanking)...

  • Only 7 games are with playoff teams.
  • 8 games at home, 10 on the road - not good nor bad given the stats
  • two back to back games (march 30-31 / april 4-5)
  • Huge Losses up for grabs against Hurricanes, Islanders and Oilers.. definitely must lose games.

What do you guys think of this schedule?

I think it's very realistic that we we get 20-22 points (9w-7L-2otl)

Which would put us at 70 points
Play Budaj a little more... let's uh, see what he can do. Yeah that's it.

BTW, the good news is that a lot of those teams will be playing for their playoff lives.

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What does this even mean? Only superstars are worth 1st round picks? Is that your argument?
You would trade our number one center + a second rounder for a mid first round pick?

The guy we pick would have what? 25% chance of being as good as Plekanec after 5+ years of development?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue
Same with Latendresse.
And maybe Andrei Kostitsyn

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:40 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Probably the most important 18 games in recent history, our beloved Canadiens are facing a relatively easy competition (bad thing for tanking)...

[LIST][*]Only 7 games are with playoff teams. [*]8 games at home, 10 on the road - not good nor bad given the stats [*]two back to back games (march 30-31 / april 4-5)[*]Huge Losses up for grabs against Hurricanes, Islanders and Oilers.. definitely must lose games.

What do you guys think of this schedule?

I think it's very realistic that we we get 20-22 points (9w-7L-2otl)

Which would put us at 70 points
That's the scary part. As weird as it sounds, we simply CAN NOT win many of our final 18 games for the long term benefit of this franchise.

This season would be for nothing if we won something like 11 or 12 of our final 18 games, still miss the playoffs, and pick in the 8th-10th range. No thanks. We NEED a top 5 pick, preferably top 3.

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:56 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
That's the scary part. As weird as it sounds, we simply CAN NOT win many of our final 18 games for the long term benefit of this franchise.

This season would be for nothing if we won something like 11 or 12 of our final 18 games, still miss the playoffs, and pick in the 8th-10th range. No thanks. We NEED a top 5 pick, preferably top 3.

After Yakupov, you can put the 10-15 next names in a hat and hope for the best.

Habs must finish dead last or bottom-two and hope to win the lottery...If not, it really doesn't matter much.

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Old
02-29-2012, 07:04 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

BTW, the good news is that a lot of those teams will be playing for their playoff lives.
That be nice but I don't think it's the case this year.

Leafs? Bolts? Flames? Sabres? Stars? I don't think any have a chance in hell in catching-up.

The only real battle appears to be the Kings / Stars, and we play neither.

Of course things can change in a dime, but relatively speaking, the 8th spot is not as congested as usual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
That's the scary part. As weird as it sounds, we simply CAN NOT win many of our final 18 games for the long term benefit of this franchise.

This season would be for nothing if we won something like 11 or 12 of our final 18 games, still miss the playoffs, and pick in the 8th-10th range. No thanks. We NEED a top 5 pick, preferably top 3.
Make matters worse, if Markov returns ( ? ) , it could provide a bit of a momentum boost..

It's too bad we don't have more games against the Pens and Devils, or western conference teams

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Old
02-29-2012, 07:13 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
You would trade our number one center + a second rounder for a mid first round pick?

The guy we pick would have what? 25% chance of being as good as Plekanec after 5+ years of development?



And maybe Andrei Kostitsyn
Management and the coaching staff was able to suck the flair right out of Andrei's game. They turned him into a mindless drone who chipped the puck off the boards and skated to select portions of the ice.

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Old
02-29-2012, 08:12 PM
  #73
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I'm really terrified that we are going to screw this up and end up coming 4th or 5th (last, I mean first, I mean last). I am a very very big fan, but I think we can all agree that not wanting to see us land that huge impact player on draft day given the current circumstance is somewhat counter to wanting this team to win. It's just posturing at this point. I've been cheering for the playoffs even when we were 12 pts out. Then we let the 6 pt gap increase...

Anyway, I am very excited about the prospect of a great prospect although I do think we made a mistake with AK. Should have kept him, but we can debate that elsewhere (just saying, I actually liked our team this year, just a lot of bad luck and crap personal seasons).

Now...if we can only continue to do what we have done all season, I think at least we can pat ourselves on the back for being consistent. Pitt managed to do this WITH Lemieux and Crosby!!! It would be an absolute shame to let this go. The players aren't going to try to lose, in fact many will be playing to impress for next year. This is where Kabs and Campoli can save us and yeah, I think the Habs can stop playing Price in every game since he's basically missed, what, 6 games? Anyone accusing us of trying to tank, I quite don't care since they've all had their day in the sun.

Re: the top 5 likely to be taken -- who do you guys think will be NHL ready next year if any? Seems like we're going to have a VERY young and inexperienced bunch but perhaps the right mix. Also, if would you guys prefer Grigs or Nail given we do have some solid centers (anti-jinx on not getting a good pick)? I hear a lot of people talking about Forsburg or some of the others. Thoughts?

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Old
02-29-2012, 08:18 PM
  #74
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We CANT screw it up. Top 7 players are cant miss.

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02-29-2012, 08:24 PM
  #75
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We really, really, really need a big size talented center. I will be happy with any of Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, Faksa...

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