HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

what's missing from the CBJ blueline?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-29-2012, 08:43 PM
  #26
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KY & Lime Lake NY
Country: United States
Posts: 30,182
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Here are your simple answers, folks. Where do I sign?
I wanted Orpik, as you, years ago... as for Rusty, I could bring up 1000 posts that wanted him gone but won't waste the time, he was my hero but this board forced me to give up on him short of getting run out of town....

Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:44 PM
  #27
JacketFanInFL
Registered User
 
JacketFanInFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Central FL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 500
I would like to see Moore and Savard sent back down for another year. Let's get a couple shut down type guys to send out against other teams' top lines and keep Nikitin and Tyutin on the 3rd pairings and we'll have a pretty legit D-corps.

Yes, they're making progress but I'd still like to see them get some development and come back into the league prime.

JacketFanInFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:58 PM
  #28
2minpenalty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
The biggest thing this team needs is "Team Defense" and defensemen who have a hockey IQ. Given how banged up our D has been this year, you would think the coaches would have drilled into the forwards that they need to help out more in the D zone. Also, the defensemen we have need to think the game better. Too many times they had brain cramps and thinking the game is something you can't teach. My fear is that we have too many "non-thinkers" on the back end. To make matters worse, our goaltending hasn't been there (except for when Sanford has been between the pipes) to bail out the D. Not an easy solution!

2minpenalty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 09:11 PM
  #29
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
 
Dr. Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jacketstown, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 6,714
vCash: 500
I haven't included goal-tending in this debate for two reasons. The first is that we all know we need it, and second, I think the O.P. wanted to talk blue-line.

We all are pretty much on the same page in that we realize that we need shut-down guys. Some of the debate lies in whether we need one or two.

One would be a good start, but I would like to see two, if that is even possible. You just can't have enough good defense-men. More depth is only going to make us way better. So Savard, and maybe Moore get pushed back to the A for a while. So what? Look at how long D-men are playing in the A in other organizations until they get a shot. By the time they are called up, they are ready. Those teams hardly miss a beat. We do not have that yet.

Plus, adding several opens up trade possibilities. Don't want to send Moore down, trade Methot. Savard proves that he is ready, trade Nikitin, or Tyutin. Want a better return? Think about trading Wiz. It just opens up so many more ways to improve other areas of this team.

I realize this may take a little time, but with the addition of JJ, we have a good start. Howson thought he could stand pat after the departures of Hejda, and Klesla. That has come back to haunt him, and he admitted as much. If he is going to remain the GM here he needs to correct that mistake this off-season.

Dr. Fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 09:12 PM
  #30
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 14,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
In my opinion, not even close. Your second pair is frightening and your third is the same as the first pairing which is being routinely torched this season.

Maybe JJ-Nikitin, then Winiewski-Methot, then Moore or Savard and anybody who can actually play defense (which explicitly does NOT include Tyutin!) I think that's closer, but still only marginal as to contending for the playoffs.

And of course, if there's not a new face in the nets for at least 50 games next year, it's all academic: this team is going nowhere.

Just my opinion. Man, this is a depressing team to try to support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
Seriously doubt this is the objective next season if this is truly a rebuild.

I suspect we'll see some shifting around and maybe one of those names isn't in the org next year. I think Moore has played his last AHL game unless someone is brought in. Savard will be the bubble guy next season, unless he learns to play like the big man he is.

That said, I don't necessarily think this defense is horrible if they're put in a system to succeed and they continue to develop together, particularly if they have a goalie capable of making more than just the easy saves. Echoing the earlier post, a big part of what they're missing is confidence, in themselves, in net.

Don't get the Methot hating. He's going to be fine, and might even be the shutdown physical guy some of you are looking for as he develops.
move the deck chairs around as you will, but you guys get to the same point as I do...

Fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 09:14 PM
  #31
EspenK
Registered User
 
EspenK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Not so sure that is always the case, Toronto has a very good defense yet their goaltending is the problem there... It's best to include not exclude goaltending in the defense if you want to win in this league..

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=387491

Great link Robert-surprised that Suter & Weber's ES +/- is about 0. Would have thought they were better. Guess that sort of supports your argument that a good (great) goalie is part of building a solid D.

EspenK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #32
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KY & Lime Lake NY
Country: United States
Posts: 30,182
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Great link Robert-surprised that Suter & Weber's ES +/- is about 0. Would have thought they were better. Guess that sort of supports your argument that a good (great) goalie is part of building a solid D.
Yep, that's why I saved that link, goaltending is not something that can be considered part of the trash so to speak.. It's very important, if not the most, good teams have both solid defense and solid goaltending.

Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:08 AM
  #33
Matt Foley
That's right, Edna
 
Matt Foley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rt. 29 in Melonville
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
The one good thing about the type of defensemen we need (stay-at-home types) is that they typically aren't very expensive compared to the puck-movers, which we have enough of now.

Hopefully the guy(s) we get have a good track record on the PK; allowing opponents to score on 25% of their PPs, as they have this year, is not acceptable.

Too bad Lebda and A. Johnson aren't stay at home defensemen, ie "stay at home and don't come to the rink, boys; we're better off with you there".

Matt Foley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:18 AM
  #34
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
The one good thing about the type of defensemen we need (stay-at-home types) is that they typically aren't very expensive compared to the puck-movers, which we have enough of now.

Hopefully the guy(s) we get have a good track record on the PK; allowing opponents to score on 25% of their PPs, as they have this year, is not acceptable.

Too bad Lebda and A. Johnson aren't stay at home defensemen, ie "stay at home and don't come to the rink, boys; we're better off with you there".
Good line about Lebda and AJ, and I agree with the sentiment.

By the way, I really like your new av, MF!

pete goegan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:20 AM
  #35
postalpez
Registered User
 
postalpez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Whats missing? One shutdown defensman, ...
What pairings would you do with just one shutdown dman? Just ask because I think we need three. I think both JJ and WIZ need to be paired with one and add a seventh who is shutdown. Thats with keeping Toot and Nick on the third line.

postalpez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:47 AM
  #36
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 16,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
Don't get the Methot hating. He's going to be fine, and might even be the shutdown physical guy some of you are looking for as he develops.
Isn't there a song my Aeurosmith? Dream on?

Methot is about pathetically average in every possible way. With the way the D is shaping up, he could end up as a 3 million dollar 5/6. Methot is having a wonderfully horizontal development. When he was drafted his upside was never more than anything he has done now. He's already exceeded expectations when drafted, expecting more out of this guy isn't fair to anyone. Especially to the fans and the rest of the players.

One of the D needs shown the door, most likely Methot. That money should be applied to a mobile player that can play well in his own zone. Preferably physical.

Seeing as how I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Howson thinks he has his 1/2 pairing, I don't expect this to happen. So we'll be deeper and "better", but we'll still leave the goal tender out to dry from the best players in the West. Other teams best players will continue to be their best players.

To be fair, it isn't entirely on the defense. Some of our forwards two way games are lacking greatly. The bottom six is rounding out a bit, but the top six has a difficult time competing. When you spend so much time in your own zone, sooner or later something bad is going to happen.

We still rely to heavily on the transition game and less on good old-fashioned fore checking.

We have or top six take knives to the proverbial gun fights.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:51 AM
  #37
Matt Foley
That's right, Edna
 
Matt Foley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rt. 29 in Melonville
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
I was looking through the UFA defenseman list on Capgeek and saw Shaone Morrisonn's name on there and I was like, "Where's he been all year?". I guess he's been playing in the AHL in Buffalo's system. Has his level of play dropped off that bad, or is it just that the Sabres like their other defensemen that much better? I remember him doing a decent job being paired up with Mike Green in Washington, so maybe he would be available on the cheap to do the same with Wiz here. I dunno.

Matt Foley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:55 AM
  #38
BluejacketNut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,914
vCash: 500
I think 1 more NHL defense to make sure Moore earns his position. Yes he's been a nice surprise, but I still want him to earn the position and no better way then having him have to beat out a true NHL defensman. If that means going back to the AHL, so be it, he's only 21, thats what it will take for this team to be a playoff contender. Mason had a nice rookie year too, in no way would i still be penciling in Moore next season. I wouldnt mind seeing us go after Gill for a year or 2, but depending on how his run will go in the playoffs will determine how much interest he'll get.

BluejacketNut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 08:30 AM
  #39
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by astall35 View Post
Free agency is always hit-or-miss but there are some good shutdown defenseman going on the market this Summer.

Brad Stuart
Barret Jackman
Cory Sarich
Bryan Allen
Niklas Grossman

Depending on our other moves, I could see us going after one of these guys.
A healthy Methot is in the same class as the guys listed here imo (Flame On, but read the rest of my post first). Yes another shutdown guy would be great (depth again has proven to be an issue), but I am personally looking for a quality goaltender signing. That is, by far, our #1 need right now.

I think we can compete with these pairing and a good (.910+ SV%, < 3.0 GAA) goaltender.

Johnson-Wisniewski
Tyutin-Nikitin
Methot-Moore/Savard/Martinek(?)

If you can land your goalie and still have the cap space and cash to go after a shutdown guy (like Jackman) to pair with Methot, then thats even better.

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #40
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
 
Dr. Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jacketstown, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 6,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
A healthy Methot is in the same class as the guys listed here imo (Flame On, but read the rest of my post first). Yes another shutdown guy would be great (depth again has proven to be an issue), but I am personally looking for a quality goaltender signing. That is, by far, our #1 need right now.

I think we can compete with these pairing and a good (.910+ SV%, < 3.0 GAA) goaltender.

Johnson-Wisniewski
Tyutin-Nikitin
Methot-Moore/Savard/Martinek(?)

If you can land your goalie and still have the cap space and cash to go after a shutdown guy (like Jackman) to pair with Methot, then thats even better.
My biggest point is that we need more than a D that can just compete.

I am not a complete anti-Methot guy. My problem with Methot, which others have also mentioned, is that he is kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none". He is so-so as a puck mover, and so-so as a shut-down guy. Plus his play can be very inconsistent.

Can he work as a lower pairing guy? Sure. But what I would like to see is Methot being used, perhaps in a package to bring in a better D-man. Or, were we to pick up a D-man in FA, use him to trade for other assets. I just think that we should at least strive to construct a much better, deeper D than we have now.

Certainly, a top goalie is the priority. That is a given. But I see no reason to sit pat on this D group. We should at least try and build a goalie tandem, and D corps like that of the Nashville Predators. Granted, that will take time, and at least we are somewhat better than we were pre-JJ.

Dr. Fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 10:08 AM
  #41
Not Enrico Ciccone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 66
vCash: 500
This thread makes me believe that all involved think Howson will be gone soon...

Because if you listen to his public statements, he thinks the D is just dandy. If he is here, and you are waiting for an upgrade on D, I think it will be a long and disappointing wait. If he is calling the shots, we change G, we change a bit up-front, but the plan is that the D is set.

Not Enrico Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 10:15 AM
  #42
Inquiring Minds
Registered User
 
Inquiring Minds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grandview, Ohio
Posts: 1,165
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Enrico Ciccone View Post
This thread makes me believe that all involved think Howson will be gone soon...

Because if you listen to his public statements, he thinks the D is just dandy. If he is here, and you are waiting for an upgrade on D, I think it will be a long and disappointing wait. If he is calling the shots, we change G, we change a bit up-front, but the plan is that the D is set.
Anybody who believes that wasn't in NA the other night to see the Dead Thangs score four straight in 12 minutes (without three of their top players)

Yay, our D is just fine and dandy.

Inquiring Minds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 12:33 PM
  #43
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,151
vCash: 500
We are spending 18 million on 4 defensemen, none of which will likely be traded. I don't expect us to spend another 3-5 million a year on a top shutdown guy, given the other holes on this team including the one created on offense by the deal that brought JJ hear. I expect UFA spending priorities will look like this...

1. #1 Goaltender
2. top 6 forward
3. 3rd line Center
4. shut down dman

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #44
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 14,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
1. #1 Goaltender
2. top 6 forward
3. 3rd line Center
4. shut down dman
not a bad thought...I will move the 3rd line center down to #4 though with the thought that we can use DMac in that role and be ok...or pick up a decent one for not much cash...

Fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:40 PM
  #45
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
not a bad thought...I will move the 3rd line center down to #4 though with the thought that we can use DMac in that role and be ok...or pick up a decent one for not much cash...
I like McKenzie alot, and I would love to see him get an audition which might make more bottom six room for the development of some younger guys. We need to still address his contract (UFA). Boll, Russell, and Dorse are all up for renewal as RFA's as well.

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:41 PM
  #46
leesmith
"We're NEVER Done!"
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,514
vCash: 500
We have Brassard, Letestu, Johansen, and (hopefully) DMac. If Nail is as good as everyone says, you're not going to play a guy like that on the 3rd or 4th lines.

1. #1 Goalie
2. shut down defenseman
3. top 6 winger

Remember, guys - build from the back to the front.

leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:43 PM
  #47
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
We have Brassard, Letestu, Johansen, and (hopefully) DMac. If Nail is as good as everyone says, you're not going to play a guy like that on the 3rd or 4th lines.

1. #1 Goalie
2. shut down defenseman
3. top 6 winger

Remember, guys - build from the back to the front.
If we can take care of #1, the priorties below can be debated, shuffled, based on availability, etc. Gotta get a reliable #1 though.

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:48 PM
  #48
leesmith
"We're NEVER Done!"
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
If we can take care of #1, the priorties below can be debated, shuffled, based on availability, etc. Gotta get a reliable #1 though.
Absolutely critical! Just like we said this time last season.

leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:52 PM
  #49
JacketsFanWest
Registered User
 
JacketsFanWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,747
vCash: 500
The Jackets do have a couple of prospects who could be making the jump to the pros that factor into defensive depth:

Will Weber will be finishing up college in a few weeks. Depending on how Miami does in the post season. He's a shut-down type of defenseman, but after his horrendous injury last season, he might have regressed a little. He's already 23.

Austin Madaisky is another puck-moving, offensive defenseman who's in the pipeline and could be playing for Springfield next season. He's in the top 10 in scoring for defenseman in the WHL.


The question is whether or not the Jackets can keep developing defenseman or if the best bet would be to trade prospects for a developed player? There's got to be some teams willing to part with a solid, reliable shut-down dman in exchange for a couple of prospects with higher offensive upside.

JacketsFanWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 02:00 PM
  #50
Crisp Breakout
Registered User
 
Crisp Breakout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 4,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Great link Robert-surprised that Suter & Weber's ES +/- is about 0. Would have thought they were better. Guess that sort of supports your argument that a good (great) goalie is part of building a solid D.
You know that's a shot differential right? You can't make the leap straight to a goalie. Obviously if guys play shutdown minutes against the other team's top lines their shot differential will be depressed. It also doesn't take into account the quality of shots they're giving up and taking.

Crisp Breakout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.