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what's missing from the CBJ blueline?

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:36 PM
  #51
EspenK
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
You know that's a shot differential right? You can't make the leap straight to a goalie. Obviously if guys play shutdown minutes against the other team's top lines their shot differential will be depressed. It also doesn't take into account the quality of shots they're giving up and taking.
Yes I understood its shots not goals-still I would assume Suter/Weber would take slightly more shots than they give up. Bottom line is I do think top D-men help goalies & somewhat vice versa.

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03-01-2012, 03:51 PM
  #52
Fred Glover
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Considering that the play of Nash the past few years has been only slightly better then that of Jeff Carter and that the Jackets were able to land a solid starting lineup worthy hitter and blueline scorer in Johnson, what else in your opinion is missing from the Defense.

Clearly a natural playmaker would be nice but with not 1 BUT 2 power forwards that entered the NHL as Centermen in R.Johansen and R.J.Umberger both as 1st round draft selections, now the question turns to who is going to be the Defender that the Jackets target as "NASH worthy"?

Really shocked that none of Nashville, San Jose, Toronto or NY were offering a package that was "good enough" to land Rick especially considering that all 4 teams were serious trade deadline players w/ multiple offers....However, now the question becomes do the JAckets pull a Lou Lamoriello and get lucky 3 times in 1 season by getting a
#1(Larsson at the Draft) a decent #2/3 Zidlicky pre deadline, and a middle of the pack #3/4(Foster mid season) this coming year.

With time the duo of Wisniewski and Johnson should be solid enough to carry a top PP.

Also having the likes of Moore, Savard, Nikitin and Tyutin should be enough to fill the PK and at least 1 spot on the 2nd PP....

WHAT else should the CBJ look for?
Talent

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03-01-2012, 04:13 PM
  #53
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If the sole focus of this thread is to evaluate whether we have a poor, decent, good or excellent defense going into 2012/13 then I would say decent based on what we currently have. Personally, I think a player like Luke Schenn is an excellent complement to a guy like JJ or Wiz. I don't like that pair on paper. I did like Moore playing with Wiz for some reason.

For me, if we're truly trying to build (I refuse to use re-build since we haven't built anything to rebuild from....) I really think you need to bring in a little more heavy that can skate. Again, I think Luke Schenn is a guy like that. Take the offense when you can get it but don't put him in a position to require it.

Going in with JJ, Wiz, Tyutin, Methot, Nikitin, Moore and likely Savard isn't bad but I'm not sold on Nikitin yet and think you can do better than Methot. Tyutin is a top 4 but I'd really like to see someone similar but a little more physical and defensive minded. Tyutin makes too many mistakes for my liking. MAybe it's the situation ???? Again, decent with that group but decent gets us the #1 pick again next year given our other needs at goaltending and forward.

In reality a good goaltender can improve the defense from decent to good over night.

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03-01-2012, 04:21 PM
  #54
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Yes I understood its shots not goals-still I would assume Suter/Weber would take slightly more shots than they give up. Bottom line is I do think top D-men help goalies & somewhat vice versa.
Well obviously they rely on one another to be successful, but I think that shots are a bad metric for measuring that. Take for example the first goal against in Jack Johnson's CBJ career. It was a shot that should have been harmless but JJ didn't pay attention to where he was and blocked the goaltender's view. If they're giving up a bunch of low percentage chances that Rinne is going to just eat their metric isn't as bad as a defense pair that screens their own tender, doesn't clear rebounds, or gives up such high percentage chances that it only takes generally one shot to put it in the back of the net.

To illustrate what I said about roles, take a look at Ellis as compared to Weber and Suter. Then consider that Ellis starts over 60% of his shifts in the offensive zone while Weber and Suter start below 45% of their shifts in the offensive zone. If you look at Colorado defensemen you'll see an extreme example of this if you compare Stefan Elliott and Ryan O'Byrne.


But to answer the question in the OP, we need someone who can throw the body around and play solid defense at the same time. Regher would be awesome, Staal would be great if we really look into a deal with NYR, Suter would be a dream, Stuart is another dream, and Eaton might be a realistic option in FA (admittedly haven't seen him at all this year though, so if he's regressed overlook that suggestion).

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03-01-2012, 04:22 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JacketFanInFL View Post
I would like to see Moore and Savard sent back down for another year. Let's get a couple shut down type guys to send out against other teams' top lines and keep Nikitin and Tyutin on the 3rd pairings and we'll have a pretty legit D-corps.

Yes, they're making progress but I'd still like to see them get some development and come back into the league prime.
I think this is pretty good. I think Moore and Savard get the call up on the inevitable injuries.

I like Wiz and J Johnson on the PP but other than that if they play together I think they'll give up too many odd man rushes.

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03-01-2012, 04:32 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Tyutin makes too many mistakes for my liking. MAybe it's the situation ???? Again, decent with that group but decent gets us the #1 pick again next year given our other needs at goaltending and forward.

In reality a good goaltender can improve the defense from decent to good over night.
Too many games this season Tyutin was the only veteran NHL D talent on the ice for the CBJ. We had too many games of Tyutin, a rookie or two and some scrubs. I think the mistakes decrease with a more balanced defense.

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03-01-2012, 04:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Well I Never View Post
Too many games this season Tyutin was the only veteran NHL D talent on the ice for the CBJ. We had too many games of Tyutin, a rookie or two and some scrubs. I think the mistakes decrease with a more balanced defense.
I woudl like to think so but I feel like I live this issue every year. I'm not a Tyutin hater. I think he's a 3/4 guy but if he could be moved and we got good value, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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03-01-2012, 05:13 PM
  #58
TaketheCannoli
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What's missing? Zdeno Chara

Can't get him? Pay whatever it costs to sign Suter

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03-02-2012, 05:05 PM
  #59
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Will Savard develop into the same shutdown monster in the NHL that he was in Juniors?

Two seasons ago he took some serious honors:

CHL Best Defenseman of the Year
QMJHL Best Defenseman
QMJHL Best Defensive Defenseman
QMJHL First Team All Star

If he can bring some of that at this level, we could have some solid pairings

Methot/Savard
JJ/Wiz
Tyutin/Nikitin

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Old
03-02-2012, 05:17 PM
  #60
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And Moore no where to be found and that lump of average Methot still around...

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03-02-2012, 06:35 PM
  #61
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And Moore no where to be found and that lump of average Methot still around...
Clearly he meant Moore/Savard right? Methot just rolls of the brain too easily.

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03-02-2012, 07:16 PM
  #62
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I also think we need 2 shutdown D to pair with JJ and Wiz. The third pair could be our Russian duo, and Moore and Savard can be the 7th and 8th. This leaves out Methot, who I would trade to free up his 3 Million salary. I believe Tyutin is one of our 6 best defenseman, but he is way overpaid($4.5mil next yr.) That may make him more likely to be the guy moved.

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03-02-2012, 10:48 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jimmys7 View Post
I believe Tyutin is one of our 6 best defenseman, but he is way overpaid($4.5mil next yr.) That may make him more likely to be the guy moved.
Nick came alive after being paired with Tyutin. I'm not sure Nick would be half as good with an English speaking partner.

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Old
03-03-2012, 02:02 AM
  #64
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I would like to trade Wiz for a right handed, mobile, defensive defensman. Or our draft pick, for Dylan McIlrath, for example Goloubef and the second round for Dylan McIlrath, than:

Tyutin, Nikitin
J. Johnson, McIlrath
Moore, Wisniewski

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03-03-2012, 09:39 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I would like to trade Wiz for a right handed, mobile, defensive defensman. Or our draft pick, for Dylan McIlrath, for example Goloubef and the second round for Dylan McIlrath, than:

Tyutin, Nikitin
J. Johnson, McIlrath
Moore, Wisniewski
The Wisniewski's contract will impede a trade, besides, I doubt the franchise will trade away a second big name UFA signing within a year.. I like Wiz and JJ on the PP point, our first line PP will be deadly when things settle down and PP goals win games.

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03-03-2012, 09:45 AM
  #66
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Injuries happen.
Wiz is part of the answer, not part of the problem. And by all accounts, he likes being here.

Now that we have JJ, the best thing we can do to our blueline is give them a dependable goalie.

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03-07-2012, 08:35 AM
  #67
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I don't think moving Methot and/or Tyutin is a step in the right direction, unless you are bringing in some top pairing guys to replace them. Let me know how that works out

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03-07-2012, 08:40 AM
  #68
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Yeah, I miss Methot every game. Oh wait. Nevermind. Talk about a waste of 3 million.

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03-07-2012, 08:46 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Yeah, I miss Methot every game. Oh wait. Nevermind. Talk about a waste of 3 million.
Don't kid yourself by these last 3 games. Mason is standing on his head trying to save his ass. We were poor in our own end for 40 minutes of that game last night.

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03-07-2012, 09:08 AM
  #70
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Don't kid yourself by these last 3 games. Mason is standing on his head trying to save his ass. We were poor in our own end for 40 minutes of that game last night.
Once again too much credit/blame is being given to the goaltender.

Mason faced a lot of shots last night, true, but most were from the low scoring areas. There were a few that weren't, and a few where Mason had to make a good save. But I think a lot more credit needs to go to the defense for keeping most of the play to the outsides.

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03-07-2012, 09:09 AM
  #71
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Don't kid yourself by these last 3 games. Mason is standing on his head trying to save his ass. We were poor in our own end for 40 minutes of that game last night.
I haven't missed Methot in any game that he has missed at any point this season. He was Arniel's little pet project and his whole "He'll be awesome if we get him on the correct side of the ice" thing was silly. Much like Stralman and his chronic sinus issues.

Methot is what he is and what that is isn't worth 3 million. He's an ok player. A NHL player. But, as I've said for a couple of years now, there is nothing special about him. Certainly nothing to justify the waste of 1.5 million a season.

I missed Rusty when he was out of the lineup. The only time I miss Methot is when AJ is on the blueline. For depth purposes.

Hell as much hate as Lebda gets around here, I'll rather keep him next year over Methot. At least the pay would be inline with his role.

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03-07-2012, 09:30 AM
  #72
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The main problem with our Blueline is the same problem we have had from the start. We are always trying to force in players who arnt quiet ready. On good teams you don't play until you are good enough to force someone out.

I like Moore/Savard but I don't think they are ready. Unfortunately we don't have enough NHL Defense Depth to allow them to get better in the AHL. Id really like to get one more defenseman in the offseason to really shore up the defense. I think it will then be atleast average, if Methot is our 6th-7th dman come camp we have done well in the offseason.

Also AJ/Lebda need to go.

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Old
03-07-2012, 09:42 AM
  #73
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Moore is fine.

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03-07-2012, 09:47 AM
  #74
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He got man handled last night.

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03-07-2012, 09:49 AM
  #75
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Moore is fine.

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