Rangers General Manager Glen Sather said he traded a fifth-round pick to Chicago for Scott so he could take care of “the fooling around that happens this time of year.” Scott, who took shifts as a defenseman and forward with the Blackhawks, could also be useful in a potential playoff series against the Boston Bruins, the bruising defending Stanley Cup champions. The Rangers host the Bruins on Sunday, and Scott would love to suit up.
“The Bruins’ style of play is that they try to bully you,” Scott said. “It won’t work with us. I love that Mr. Sather is adding me to a roster with guys like Brandon Prust and Mike Rupp. We are team-tough throughout the lineup. If the Bruins think they can take liberties with us, think again.”
The Rangers are the best team in the NHL they lead the NHL in fighting majors and they feel the need to add a guy "goon" like Scott. Who has 1 goal and 4 assists in 4 years in the NHL.
Last year the Bruins were the toughest team in the NHL and gues what , they bullied their way to the stanley cup and won.
Just a few years ago the Ducks won the Stanley cup with multiple "HW's,Goons,enforcers" and LED the NHL in fighting majors that year.
Give me a team built like the Rangers or Bruins, teams that intimidate other teams and have the toughesst teams in the league and lets not forget 2 of the BEST teams in the NHL.
Give me a team built like that instead of a team like the Islanders who are built with marys,cream puffs, and soft a** pathetic players who cower in the face of physical teams.
I have been saying it for a few years on this board and will say it again, this team is going no where unless there is a major overhaul within the toughness department. This team just does not have it in them to be physical/stand up to other teams ect. We have been told by the pacifist fans that "our young guys will learn to be tough with experience" Hows that theory working out for you?
I'd bet Tavares is more scared of Cal Clutterbuck will do, than what Goddard might.
Goons fight amongst goons. They serve no deterrent to anyone important.
I think the role of enforcers has been so ingrained in hockey culture that it is hard for players to say otherwise, regardless of what the truth is.
Dis you read any of this thread?
Players from the past and current players will disagree.
Brier on the topic of the "enforcer"
As a 5-foot-9, 185-pound producer of 264 goals and just two fights in 14 seasons, Danny Briere might be expected to be the prototype of a player who wants the ice free of goons. Instead, he believes he is typical of skilled players who have a greater fear of an NHL without fighting.
"For people who haven't played, sometimes it's tough to understand," said the Philadelphia center. "But most players feel fighting leaves the game cleaner."
Wayne Gretzky on the "goon" issue.
"I was lucky enough to have a guy like Marty McSorley. That was part of the game and part of what went on in our sport. Now if we all think and everyone feels that the instigator issue will change things, then let's try it for awhile."
He also has praised Dave Semenko numerous times througout the years for what he meant to him as well. There was no bigger "goon" then Semenko.
Brett Hull's tweet on the goons/enforcers effect on his career.
"99 best AO12 most underated most respect to all tough guys who ever played. Would not have 741 without you xoxo "
I can go on and on quoting players on so called "useless goons" impact on the game.
In my opinion, guys like Rupp or Boulton are very valuable. Guys like Gillies and Rechlicz are not.
You name Boulton? He has no points in 39 games this season. He is there for one reason. If he chips in the occasional goal that gravey but dont fool yourself he's here for one reason.
I'm just saying that the article and the people quoted seem to be talking more about fighting in general, and not "enforcers" in the strictest sense.
These quotes are about enforcers.
Sather was talking about John Scott who is nothing more then a "enforcer/goon" and said the reason they got Scott was because......
"Rangers General Manager Glen Sather said he traded a fifth-round pick to Chicago for Scott so he could take care of “the fooling around that happens this time of year.”
Brett Hull's tweet on Enforcers.
"99 best AO12 most underated most respect to all tough guys who ever played. Would not have 741 without you xoxo
Wayne Gretzky on McSorley
I was lucky enough to have a guy like Marty McSorley. That was part of the game and part of what went on in our sport. Now if we all think and everyone feels that the instigator issue will change things, then let's try it for awhile."
Gretzky has also said countless times how much he praised Semenko who was nothing more then a pure "goon". I agree Mcsorley could actully play a little but he was there for one reason and that was to enforce.
I agree with having an enforcer, but someone who can also play. Mike Rupp is a perfect example of this. you NEED someone there as a deterrent. its a fact. If Mike Rupp was on the Isles I bet JT would be getting less **** than he does right now.
Y'know, the Isles should draft someone just like Mike Rupp... Oh wait, they did...
Dis you read any of this thread?
Players from the past and current players will disagree.
Brier on the topic of the "enforcer"
As a 5-foot-9, 185-pound producer of 264 goals and just two fights in 14 seasons, Danny Briere might be expected to be the prototype of a player who wants the ice free of goons. Instead, he believes he is typical of skilled players who have a greater fear of an NHL without fighting.
"For people who haven't played, sometimes it's tough to understand," said the Philadelphia center. "But most players feel fighting leaves the game cleaner."
Wayne Gretzky on the "goon" issue.
"I was lucky enough to have a guy like Marty McSorley. That was part of the game and part of what went on in our sport. Now if we all think and everyone feels that the instigator issue will change things, then let's try it for awhile."
He also has praised Dave Semenko numerous times througout the years for what he meant to him as well. There was no bigger "goon" then Semenko.
Brett Hull's tweet on the goons/enforcers effect on his career.
"99 best AO12 most underated most respect to all tough guys who ever played. Would not have 741 without you xoxo "
I can go on and on quoting players on so called "useless goons" impact on the game.
Like I said, the mentality is so ingrained in hockey culture that saying what Gretzky is the "right" answer. Its the answer that doesn't make waves. But just because people are saying it, doesn't mean its necessarily true.
Enforcers are usually good guys too (and good friends), performing an emotional job. That doesn't mean its essential. You don't screw over guys like that and come right out and say they are useless.
But I'm done with argument. This has has been argued tons of times on every board on hfboards. Its stupid pointless to argue it, so I won't any longer. I'd rather bang my head against a wall.
. I BELIEVE the point is that tough guys have a role to play even in today's game where guys want to roll four lines. That always cracks me up...guys saying they want the Islanders to roll four lines. That is like saying that I want a 40 goal scorer on the Islanders' top two lines. Sure, I want to roll four lines...but we can't do that at the exclusion of talent AND toughness.
Hows rolling 4 lines going for us this year? We have 3 points combined on the whole year on that pathetic 4th line in every sence of the way.
Just take a look at this pathetic stat.
Tim Wallace, Nino, Pandolfo, Reasoner, and Rolston have played a combined 194 games and a total of 6 goals and 12 assists.
2 of Rolston's goals are empty netters! Also not to mention the fact he gets alot of pp time.
Last year with a Gillies-Konopka-Haley 4th line in 148 game played between Gillies-Konopka-Haley they had a total of 6 goals and 8 assists with 45 less games played then the Nino,Reasoner,Pandolfo,Wallace and Rolston.
Thats pathetic, I only added the stats of Gillies-Konopka and Haley compared to adding the stats of the 5 players I mentioned , that just makes it look even worse considering I added 2 more players stats from this year for a total of 5 players and last years 4th line was still better.
The useless 4th liners we had this year in Nino,Wallace,Pandolfo, Reasoner and Rolston and comparing the 3 players in Gillies-Konopka-Haley, they have 6 goals and 8 assists, while 5 players who were on the isles this year have 6 goals and 12 assists. At least last years 4th line would provide much needed toughness,leadership charater ect. The 4th line as a total this year has 3 pts, pathetic.
Hows the "skill" 4th line and the 4th line that can take a "regular shift " helping us this year?
These pacifist fans better be ready to eat crow when this team winds up ending up a with a record similar to last years or a worse record.
Then considering we got rid of all the "useless hockey players" and replaced them with "skill" and a 4th line that can "take a regular shift".
Then add in the fact we did not have Striet last year, no KO until the end of the season and no Nabakov stealing games for us. To those that thought we would be better because we got rid of the "useless guys" you better be ready to eat crow if they finish around the same as last year or worse.
The pacifists got their way and removed this teams charater, toughness and team leader for "players who can play". We see how their theory is working out. You cant dress a team of small,soft, marys and ecpect to win. I said this from the start of the season and was laughed at. We will see who is laughing when at the end of the season.
Like I said, the mentality is so ingrained in hockey culture that saying what Gretzky is the "right" answer. Its the answer that doesn't make waves. But just because people are saying it, doesn't mean its necessarily true.
Enforcers are usually good guys too (and good friends), performing an emotional job. That doesn't mean its essential. You don't screw over guys like that and come right out and say they are useless.
But I'm done with argument. This has has been argued tons of times on every board on hfboards. Its stupid pointless to argue it, so I won't any longer. I'd rather bang my head against a wall.
Thats a real bad example for this argument.
I'll think take the words of current players, ex players, GM's and coaches that have actually played the game instead of an anti fighting journalist who wants fighting out of the game.
I'm very strongly in favor of having an enforcer on this team. At the present moment when you watch this team play, it's quite clear that there is no one that opposing teams have to answer to. Martin is our only toughness and honestly he's at best a "decent" fighter.
I personally would love to have Haley and Gillies on our fourth line right now in place of Reasoner and Pandolfo. Haley is not a bad player if given the opportunity. He's capable of taking as regular a shift as our fourth line has been taking and I'm confident he could at the very least meet or surpass the underwhelming numbers of Reasoner. He'd also provide a huge boost in physicality and with regards to fighting, would be second to only Gillies.
I'm not blind to the fact that Trevor is just a fighter, but his presence is a factor whether you're eager to admit it or not. The players on this team have talked about it and Brent Thompson has mentioned the presence that Gillies brings to the lineup in Bridgeport multiple times this year. (More goals than Reasoner btw)
When it comes to "rolling four lines" like a lot of people on here are adamant about, It only makes sense if you have four lines worthy of it. Deep teams can pull it off, we are not now and likely will not be in the near future a deep team. In the case of this fourth line, you'd give Haley and whoever else a regular fourth line shift and give Gillies odd shifts and sub different top 6 guys in his place for other shifts. (They're professional athletes, this small increase in icetime would be a positive for them, not a detriment) I know I'd rather my better players getting a bit more ice instead of having a guy like Reasoner (who does almost nothing well) wasting minutes.
I know you'll still fight me on Gillies and I understand your argument, I just disagree.
If you don't have a Gillies on you team, IMO You've gotta have at least 3-4 players of varying abilities who are willing and capable to drop the gloves if need be. Teams like the Rangers and Bruins currently fall under this category. These are teams that are truly "team tough". If Garth felt so inclined he could make us one of these teams in free agency. Guys like Jordin Tootoo, Shawn Thornton, Brandon Prust, and Arron Asham are going to become UFAs.
Okay. You found quotes about enforcers. You don't need to post them 9 times.
While I'm not a huge fan of the enforcer, I do recognize the validity of the argument behind having one. I'm just pointing out that there's a distinction between the general concept of fighting in the game and the idea of the strict enforcer whose only skill is fighting. Some of this evidence being presented doesn't make that distinction.
Color me old school. I prefer the days before the advent of the "enforcer" where every player on the team was expected to stand up for themselves and drop the gloves when necessary.
Thats a real bad example for this argument.
I'll think take the words of current players, ex players, GM's and coaches that have actually played the game instead of an anti fighting journalist who wants fighting out of the game.
Justin BOURNE is the son of Bob Bourne! He played professional hockey, in the Islanders organization to boot. But ya, its obviously a horrible example.
**** it. Lets get into this.
How many fights has JT been in with an enforcer on the bench? How many fights has JT been in without an enforcer on the bench?
As an FYI, Tavares suffered his one concussion with Gillies on the bench.
If anyone can show me any type of a statistically significant correlation between contact against a "star" player and the presence of a goon on the bench, then I'll jump off of the Verazano. But you can't because it doesn't exist in reality. It only does in la-la land. The data is there, it really just takes someone motivated enough to go through it. I am personally am not because the opposing argument will always boil down to "Well Gretzky loved the goons, they must be useful".
I am personally am not because the opposing argument will always boil down to "Well Gretzky loved the goons, they must be useful".
While I do think fighting has its place in hockey and remains a tool of value, it is worth noting that the role has changed significantly since Gretzky's days in Edmonton with the advent of the instigator penalty. Without being able to force unwilling combatants to answer the bell, enforcers are not the deterrant they used to be.
It's about getting pushed around on a nightly basis and not neccessarily just fighting. Our guys get the **** beat out of them and nothing is done about it. It's about having a balanced lineup like the recently successful teams, not skating 19 *****s and 1 3rd line grinder. Dress an enforcer and the liberties against us go down.
Hows rolling 4 lines going for us this year? We have 3 points combined on the whole year on that pathetic 4th line in every sence of the way.
Just take a look at this pathetic stat.
Tim Wallace, Nino, Pandolfo, Reasoner, and Rolston have played a combined 194 games and a total of 6 goals and 12 assists.
2 of Rolston's goals are empty netters! Also not to mention the fact he gets alot of pp time.
Last year with a Gillies-Konopka-Haley 4th line in 148 game played between Gillies-Konopka-Haley they had a total of 6 goals and 8 assists with 45 less games played then the Nino,Reasoner,Pandolfo,Wallace and Rolston.
Thats pathetic, I only added the stats of Gillies-Konopka and Haley compared to adding the stats of the 5 players I mentioned , that just makes it look even worse considering I added 2 more players stats from this year for a total of 5 players and last years 4th line was still better.
The useless 4th liners we had this year in Nino,Wallace,Pandolfo, Reasoner and Rolston and comparing the 3 players in Gillies-Konopka-Haley, they have 6 goals and 8 assists, while 5 players who were on the isles this year have 6 goals and 12 assists. At least last years 4th line would provide much needed toughness,leadership charater ect. The 4th line as a total this year has 3 pts, pathetic.
Hows the "skill" 4th line and the 4th line that can take a "regular shift " helping us this year?
These pacifist fans better be ready to eat crow when this team winds up ending up a with a record similar to last years or a worse record.
Then considering we got rid of all the "useless hockey players" and replaced them with "skill" and a 4th line that can "take a regular shift".
Then add in the fact we did not have Striet last year, no KO until the end of the season and no Nabakov stealing games for us. To those that thought we would be better because we got rid of the "useless guys" you better be ready to eat crow if they finish around the same as last year or worse.
The pacifists got their way and removed this teams charater, toughness and team leader for "players who can play". We see how their theory is working out. You cant dress a team of small,soft, marys and ecpect to win. I said this from the start of the season and was laughed at. We will see who is laughing when at the end of the season.
Good post. Let me add to your argument.
This year our record is:
Games: 63
Wins: 26
Losses: 28
OT Losses: 9
Points: 61
Last year at the 63 game mark we were:
Wins: 23
Losses: 32
OT Losses: 8
Points: 54
That is a 7 point difference. Ok, the optimist in each of us says, Well, that's something. But then you look at the way we finished in the final 19 games last year (statistical .500):
Wins: 7
Losses: 7
OT Losses: 5
Points: 19
Finished with 73 points on the season
And our schedule this year remaining (Phi-2, Bos-2, NJ-4, Rags-1, Caps-1, Mon-1, Tor-1, TB-1, Fla-1, Pit-2, Ott-1, Win-1, CBJ-1) The bold are the games I expect wins in. I expect two more on top of that just because, and maybe 3 OT loses to be fair. That's 13 more points.
Total for the year: 74
Color me unimpressed if all we do is gain a single point over last season.
While I do think fighting has its place in hockey and remains a tool of value, it is worth noting that the role has changed significantly since Gretzky's days in Edmonton with the advent of the instigator penalty. Without being able to force unwilling combatants to answer the bell, enforcers are not the deterrant they used to be.
Exactly. Goons typically fight goons. They don't fight the players taking liberties unless that player is another goon (or guy with honor/grit).
Exhibit A: Sean Avery's typical antics followed up by refusing invitation with opposing team's goon.
Justin BOURNE is the son of Bob Bourne! He played professional hockey, in the Islanders organization to boot. But ya, its obviously a horrible example.
**** it. Lets get into this.
How many fights has JT been in with an enforcer on the bench? How many fights has JT been in without an enforcer on the bench?
As an FYI, Tavares suffered his one concussion with Gillies on the bench.
If anyone can show me any type of a statistically significant correlation between contact against a "star" player and the presence of a goon on the bench, then I'll jump off of the Verazano. But you can't because it doesn't exist in reality. It only does in la-la land. The data is there, it really just takes someone motivated enough to go through it. I am personally am not because the opposing argument will always boil down to "Well Gretzky loved the goons, they must be useful".
If anyone can show me any type of a statistically significant correlation between contact against a "star" player and the presence of a goon on the bench, then I'll jump off of the Verazano. But you can't because it doesn't exist in reality. It only does in la-la land. The data is there, it really just takes someone motivated enough to go through it. I am personally am not because the opposing argument will always boil down to "Well Gretzky loved the goons, they must be useful".[/QUOTE]
Why did Shero the GM of the Pens go out and sign Eric Godard the year after Pitt had no enforcer after watching Crosby get abused? It's clear as day why he was signed? Notice the cheap shots stopped.
Why did Sather just say "Rangers General Manager Glen Sather said he traded a fifth-round pick to Chicago for Scott so he could take care of “the fooling around that happens this time of year.”
It's not just because Gretzky loved goons, it's fair to assume 95% of the league players understood what players like that bring to a team. From Gretzky Praising guys like McSorley and Semenko , Brett Hull praising the enforcer role .
We have heard hundreds of times from ex players,current players in interviews what guys like this bring to the table. We even have heard our own players in Tavares and Martin say how much Gillies brought to the team.
Notice when we started dressing one of the toughest lineups in the NHL in Gillies-Haley-Konopka and Martin after the Pens game at the end of the year no one was pushing us around or cheapshotting us.
We made a statement that game you cheapshot us and your gonna pay and guess what? After that game this team played with a swagger and confidence we had not seen all year and no one was ran or pushed around game after game like they are this year after that pitt game. HMMMM I wonder why.
There is a reason this team gets pushed around so much it's the biggest group of marys ever assembled on an NHL roster.
How come these "goons" can still be in the league? Nashville has HW Brian McGrattan 6'4 230lbs,Philly has HW Jody Shelly6'3 230lbs and HW Tom Sestito 6'5 230 lbs, Rangers have HW John Scott 6'8 275lbs,The ducks have HW George Parros 6'5 230, The Sens have HW Matt Carnker 6'4 240 lbs,the wild have HW Matt Kassian 6'5 250, the LA kings have HW Kevin Wesgarth 6'5 245lbs,Phoenix has HW Paul Bissonett 6'3 215, The bruins have HW Shawn Thorton 6'2 220lbs ,Columbus has HW Jared Boll 6'2 220, The Devs have 2 HW's HW Eric Boulton 6'1 225 lbs, HW Cam Janseen 6'0 215lbs, The Caps John Erskine 6'4 220, Toronto has HW 6'3 220 lb Jay RoseHill, the Oilers have HW Darcy Hordichuck 6'1 215 lbs, ST. louis has HW Ryan Reaves 6'2 225 lbs. Those are just the HW goons playing.
Notice most of those teams that has a HW "goon" on their roster are playoff teams.
While I do think fighting has its place in hockey and remains a tool of value, it is worth noting that the role has changed significantly since Gretzky's days in Edmonton with the advent of the instigator penalty. Without being able to force unwilling combatants to answer the bell, enforcers are not the deterrant they used to be.
I agree it has changed but it is still there. The intimidation is still there. Just what Hordichuck says on the Canucks choice to not dress an enforcer to counter him, Hordichuck replied regarding the Sendin twins.
"It seems the Canucks are going in a different direction. It’s great for me. It’s great when I get into a game like this because those are the guys you want to try to abuse on the ice.
“We’ll see how they respond.”
“We were playing Cal Clutterbuck and I went up to him, and said ‘These guys don’t care if I take a suspension, they’re willing to pay it.’ He didn’t throw one hit all night,” Hordichuk said.
Clutterbuck, by the way, did get credit for five hits. Hordichuk does talk a great game.
Hordichuk said he was brought to Edmonton after Taylor Hall got into a coupe fights. He contends his presence relaxes the Oilers lineup and his minutes are going to start to go way up.
"It’s like having a Hells Angel in here,” Hordichuk said of his role. “They know I’m there. Everyone kind of calms down. Everybody thinks they’re a tough guy until you poke one of them in the ear.
It has changed a bit but to call these guys presence useless is just going way too far, when from ex players to current players to coaches to GM's all say the same thing. These guys serve a purpose only guys that have played this game will understand.
Good post. Let me add to your argument.
This year our record is:
Games: 63
Wins: 26
Losses: 28
OT Losses: 9
Points: 61
Last year at the 63 game mark we were:
Wins: 23
Losses: 32
OT Losses: 8
Points: 54
That is a 7 point difference. Ok, the optimist in each of us says, Well, that's something. But then you look at the way we finished in the final 19 games last year (statistical .500):
Wins: 7
Losses: 7
OT Losses: 5
Points: 19
Finished with 73 points on the season
And our schedule this year remaining (Phi-2, Bos-2, NJ-4, Rags-1, Caps-1, Mon-1, Tor-1, TB-1, Fla-1, Pit-2, Ott-1, Win-1, CBJ-1) The bold are the games I expect wins in. I expect two more on top of that just because, and maybe 3 OT loses to be fair. That's 13 more points.
Total for the year: 74
Color me unimpressed if all we do is gain a single point over last season.
Dont worry we will have the last laugh when the pacifist fans see that this soft team winds up worse or around the same record as last year all while dressing "skill" guys and players "who can play the game" so we can "roll 4 lines" and getting rid of "uselesss" players like Konopka-Haley and Gillies would make us much better. What BS that turned out to be.
I have said from the start of the year letting a leader in Konopka go and not having Haley would be a mistake. I was laughed at by the hippie pacifist movement that those "useless" players will make us better by not being on the ice. Yea the 4th line is so good this year, and we are gonna do any better this year dressing all marys? This fragile team needs the pressence of those tpye of character guys to excell. This team is just full of fragil marys and need those types of guys around.
They dont understand you will never win dressing 4 lines of marys. If your top 6 is gonna be as soft as ours is you better have some tough guys on the bottom 6 or 1 on the 4th line. There is no reason Haley should not be playing on this 4th line. Martin moves up to the 3rd line and Haley on the 4th and this team instantly becomes tougher.
I agree it has changed but it is still there. The intimidation is still there. Just what Hordichuck says on the Canucks choice to not dress an enforcer to counter him, Hordichuck replied regarding the Sendin twins.
"It seems the Canucks are going in a different direction. It’s great for me. It’s great when I get into a game like this because those are the guys you want to try to abuse on the ice.
“We’ll see how they respond.”
“We were playing Cal Clutterbuck and I went up to him, and said ‘These guys don’t care if I take a suspension, they’re willing to pay it.’ He didn’t throw one hit all night,” Hordichuk said.
Clutterbuck, by the way, did get credit for five hits. Hordichuk does talk a great game.
Hordichuk said he was brought to Edmonton after Taylor Hall got into a coupe fights. He contends his presence relaxes the Oilers lineup and his minutes are going to start to go way up.
"It’s like having a Hells Angel in here,” Hordichuk said of his role. “They know I’m there. Everyone kind of calms down. Everybody thinks they’re a tough guy until you poke one of them in the ear.
It has changed a bit but to call these guys presence useless is just going way too far, when from ex players to current players to coaches to GM's all say the same thing. These guys serve a purpose only guys that have played this game will understand.
I mean you are proving your own point wrong.
Hordichuk is claiming he was the deterring factor that stopped CLutterbuck from hitting when in fact that wasn't the case. In their minds these guys are important, in many hockey minds these guys are important. In reality they are not. If you don't want to get roughed up away from the play of the game (i.e. not counting hits) you can avoid that stuff with ease.
We can't even field a balanced lineup with grit. We have Martin who is a perfect 3rd line energy guy and thats it.
Notice this, Martin was perfect in a 4th line role, then third line role, he will also be perfect in top line roles, he can adapt to all situations and can put the puck in the net. Question is this we do not play smash mouth hockey like the Bruins etc, to use his best attributes, being unmovable out front, winning corner and wall battles. Martin is easily used on all lines due to his large tool box. Problem is style of game the top lines play, which will never get you to a cup vs. any tough team.
Marty has proven unlike a Clutterbuck to defend himself/mates, NO FEAR and only 22, when he gets his man body look out, No heavy is going to intimidate Martin from hitting, he will drop em with anyone, Clutterbuck does not possess this character. Bottom line the fighting end does not even matter, why? Martin can and will crush any personal on the ice with checks...Thats more intimidating than any fight any enforcer can do. Isles have easily the best hitter in the league that can do much more, when the top lines problems get solved ,if solved Martin should be there.
When Marty is on the ice the bad guys take notice, turn over pucks, etc, you can not replace his on ice presence, his physical presence, but you have to use it and the Isles don't. Rather they tick tack toe around looking for the perfect goal, cause they do not possess the mean go to the net red zone player Marty is.
Now he must stay on the ice playing top 6 roles, he does know how to pick his spots, but every time a softer player gets run over everyone expects Marty to drop em and defend someones honour, thats fine except other players have to toughen up and be accountable also, not always fold the tent and want to go home. This kid is the real deal, do you need to see him on another team making a difference to understand that?
I can hear it now, another one got away!
The true enforcer theory is past, you got to man up as a team, and yes there are the Martins that bring more to the party.
Of course John Scott will say the league needs him. In all honesty though, he is a really useless player. Martin is a lot more valuable because he can skate, hit and pot some goals besides fighting. Really, POS like Gillies can rot away in whatever beer league that will have them but hopefully, teams in the NHL will give roster spots to players who can actually do something else besides playing 3 minutes per night and pound in the face of another player with the exact same skillset.
Okay. You found quotes about enforcers. You don't need to post them 9 times.
While I'm not a huge fan of the enforcer, I do recognize the validity of the argument behind having one. I'm just pointing out that there's a distinction between the general concept of fighting in the game and the idea of the strict enforcer whose only skill is fighting. Some of this evidence being presented doesn't make that distinction.
Color me old school. I prefer the days before the advent of the "enforcer" where every player on the team was expected to stand up for themselves and drop the gloves when necessary.
Aside from Martin and Hamonic, who on the islanders could actually stand up for themselves. It's a two word answer, No one.
I'd bet Tavares is more scared of Cal Clutterbuck will do, than what Goddard might.
Goons fight amongst goons. They serve no deterrent to anyone important.
I think the role of enforcers has been so ingrained in hockey culture that it is hard for players to say otherwise, regardless of what the truth is.
Yes but i would bet Clutterbuck would probably soften his hits if gillies was on the ice
If he runs JT Gillies would not let em get away with it,So JT would be less scared in this scenario
Hows rolling 4 lines going for us this year? We have 3 points combined on the whole year on that pathetic 4th line in every sence of the way. 
) 
This fragile team needs the pressence of those tpye of character guys to excell. This team is just full of fragil marys and need those types of guys around. 
