News Article: One last thing about enforcers...

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Originally Posted by mygameworn

Aside from Martin and Hamonic, who on the islanders could actually stand up for themselves. It's a two word answer, No one.

I agree that the Isles lack team toughness. Is that really even a debate at this point?

[Doshell Propivo]

Originally Posted by Isles4ever82

How come these "goons" can still be in the league? Nashville has HW Brian McGrattan 6'4 230lbs,Philly has HW Jody Shelly6'3 230lbs and HW Tom Sestito 6'5 230 lbs, Rangers have HW John Scott 6'8 275lbs,The ducks have HW George Parros 6'5 230, The Sens have HW Matt Carnker 6'4 240 lbs,the wild have HW Matt Kassian 6'5 250, the LA kings have HW Kevin Wesgarth 6'5 245lbs,Phoenix has HW Paul Bissonett 6'3 215, The bruins have HW Shawn Thorton 6'2 220lbs ,Columbus has HW Jared Boll 6'2 220, The Devs have 2 HW's HW Eric Boulton 6'1 225 lbs, HW Cam Janseen 6'0 215lbs, The Caps John Erskine 6'4 220, Toronto has HW 6'3 220 lb Jay RoseHill, the Oilers have HW Darcy Hordichuck 6'1 215 lbs, ST. louis has HW Ryan Reaves 6'2 225 lbs. Those are just the HW goons playing.

There are still many HW goons/enforcers employed on NHL rosters.

In 7 of our next 8 games the teams we will be playing dress "goons/enforcers".

And how much ice time will these goons get when the games matter (i.e. playoffs)? Basically zero... I'm not "anti-fighting" by any means but the game has changed so much (both organically and artificially through new rules) that fighting has almost no affect whatsoever on the outcome of a game. That is why in really important games, you almost never see a fight. The argument that fighting makes the game "cleaner" may have been the case in the 70's and 80's, but is now flawed. There is almost no fighting in the playoffs and penalties and cheap shots drop considerably. Why is that?

Last year, TB-BOS Game 7 was one of the best hockey games I have seen in my all my years watching the game. Zero fights. Zero penalties. And only one goal. Yet it was an extremely tough and very well played game. Fights are not necessary to "police the game" or to make it more entertaining. Neither are tons of goals. I'll take that playoff game over a fight-filled 6-5 shootout ANY day.

[Islanders1932]

Next game I go to I think I'll bring a sign that says "We Want Haley!"

[Renbarg]

Originally Posted by goal1228

Yes but i would bet Clutterbuck would probably soften his hits if gillies was on the ice
If he runs JT Gillies would not let em get away with it,So JT would be less scared in this scenario

Have you been watching hockey in the past 10 years. How many times has Gillies gone after guys like Clutterbuck? You can probably count them on one hand. Gillies almost exclusively goes after heavyweights. Gillies can't hurt Clutterbuck, because Clutterbuck will simply skate away and thats the end of that. Gillies can barely skate so his hits are few and far between.

Teams don't hit less when Gillies is on the bench. All that Gillies presence does is add a fight to the game between Gillies and their goon.

[goal1228]

Originally Posted by Renbarg

Have you been watching hockey in the past 10 years. How many times has Gillies gone after guys like Clutterbuck? You can probably count them on one hand. Gillies almost exclusively goes after heavyweights. Gillies can't hurt Clutterbuck, because Clutterbuck will simply skate away and thats the end of that. Gillies can barely skate so his hits are few and far between.

Teams don't hit less when Gillies is on the bench. All that Gillies presence does is add a fight to the game between Gillies and their goon.

That's not the point. How many times have you've seen a guy throw a cheap shot at Tavares when either Haley , Gillies or Konopka was on the bench? I remember players like Pronger, Jovanowski taking liberties on Tavares because they could without fear of retaliation. Gillies cant hurt Clutterbuck because Clutterbuck will not take a cheap shot at the face of the franchise with him on the ice and if he did i'm pretty sure he would not let it go.

[Shawn33]

Originally Posted by Renbarg

Have you been watching hockey in the past 10 years. How many times has Gillies gone after guys like Clutterbuck? You can probably count them on one hand. Gillies almost exclusively goes after heavyweights. Gillies can't hurt Clutterbuck, because Clutterbuck will simply skate away and thats the end of that. Gillies can barely skate so his hits are few and far between.

Teams don't hit less when Gillies is on the bench. All that Gillies presence does is add a fight to the game between Gillies and their goon.

He's already shown with Clutterbuck that he can't just skate away.

[Isles4ever82]

Originally Posted by Doshell Propivo

And how much ice time will these goons get when the games matter (i.e. playoffs)? Basically zero... I'm not "anti-fighting" by any means but the game has changed so much (both organically and artificially through new rules) that fighting has almost no affect whatsoever on the outcome of a game. That is why in really important games, you almost never see a fight. The argument that fighting makes the game "cleaner" may have been the case in the 70's and 80's, but is now flawed. There is almost no fighting in the playoffs and penalties and cheap shots drop considerably. Why is that?

Last year, TB-BOS Game 7 was one of the best hockey games I have seen in my all my years watching the game. Zero fights. Zero penalties. And only one goal. Yet it was an extremely tough and very well played game. Fights are not necessary to "police the game" or to make it more entertaining. Neither are tons of goals. I'll take that playoff game over a fight-filled 6-5 shootout ANY day.

I agree the game has changed but have you ever seen a team as soft as this current Islander group?
This is by far the softest Islander team in the history of their franchise and easily the softest team in the current NHL.
We need more then Martin. It is not right that he has to fight this teams battles and be the man to stand up to drop the gloves with the other teams tough guy.
Martin is becoming such a valuable player I dont want him fighting 20+ times a year. The energy he creates with his big hits and his physical style of play is to valuable to be the only guy willing to mix it up.
He's also becoming a pretty good player too. Why can other teams dress a HW enforcer and we cant? Even if we can disagree what guys like Gilles bring shouldent Haley at least be here? He is far from a goon and can play. We are not going anywhere and we can use the extra toughness and character for this team.

You can say what you want about the role of an enforcer, but there are gm's coaches and players that know what these guys bring to the table. A perfect example are The New York Rangers who are the best team in the NHL and lead the NHL in fighting majors. They already lead the NHL in fighting majors are already one of the toughest teams in the NHL and the Rangers go out and trade for the biggest enforcer/goon in the NHL in John Scott.

Why did Sather say "Rangers General Manager Glen Sather said he traded a fifth-round pick to Chicago for Scott so he could take care of “the fooling around that happens this time of year.”

If these guys are useless why did the best team in the NHL the Rangers, a team who already has massive team toughness and lead the league in fighting majors go out and trade for the biggest goon in the NHL in John Scott if these guys serve no purpose? You may disagree with me but there would not be so many of these guys left if they served no purpose. The HW is a dying breed, I agree but that role is still there in todays game.

[Isles4ever82]

Originally Posted by goal1228

That's not the point. How many times have you've seen a guy throw a cheap shot at Tavares when either Haley , Gillies or Konopka was on the bench? I remember players like Pronger, Jovanowski taking liberties on Tavares because they could without fear of retaliation. Gillies cant hurt Clutterbuck because Clutterbuck will not take a cheap shot at the face of the franchise with him on the ice and if he did i'm pretty sure he would not let it go.

Spot on! Did you watch how other teams played us after that Pitt game and after we started to dress one of the toughest teams in the NHL after that game? Clear as day the difference, we were not pushed around and did not have liberties taken against our players like we do on a nightly basis this year like we see now. No teams were abusing us because we sent a message that game, that if you mess with us be prepared for pay back. Teams have no fear now.

[Isles Enforcer]

Originally Posted by Renbarg

Have you been watching hockey in the past 10 years. How many times has Gillies gone after guys like Clutterbuck? You can probably count them on one hand. Gillies almost exclusively goes after heavyweights. Gillies can't hurt Clutterbuck, because Clutterbuck will simply skate away and thats the end of that. Gillies can barely skate so his hits are few and far between.

Teams don't hit less when Gillies is on the bench. All that Gillies presence does is add a fight to the game between Gillies and their goon.

[Isles4ever82]

Originally Posted by Renbarg

Have you been watching hockey in the past 10 years. How many times has Gillies gone after guys like Clutterbuck? You can probably count them on one hand. Gillies almost exclusively goes after heavyweights. Gillies can't hurt Clutterbuck, because Clutterbuck will simply skate away and thats the end of that. Gillies can barely skate so his hits are few and far between.

Teams don't hit less when Gillies is on the bench. All that Gillies presence does is add a fight to the game between Gillies and their goon.

Wrong! What games were you watching? Did you watch how other teams played us after that Pitt game and after we started to dress one of the toughest teams in the NHL after that game?
It was clear as day the difference after that game, we were not pushed around and did not have liberties taken against our players like we do on a nightly basis this year like we see now.
No teams were abusing us because we sent a message that game and started to dress a tough lineup and the message was that if you mess with us be prepared for pay back. This year teams have no fear now, they can do as they want with us with bc no one on the team is willing to do anything besides Martin.


The Caps announcers said it perfectly the other night before the game, the Caps coaches preached to their team before the Islander game the key to beating the Islanders is to play physical against them because they crumble when teams take it to them physically.

[Doshell Propivo]

Originally Posted by Isles4ever82

I agree the game has changed but have you ever seen a team as soft as this current Islander group?
This is by far the softest Islander team in the history of their franchise and easily the softest team in the current NHL.
We need more then Martin. It is not right that he has to fight this teams battles and be the man to stand up to drop the gloves with the other teams tough guy.
Martin is becoming such a valuable player I dont want him fighting 20+ times a year. The energy he creates with his big hits and his physical style of play is to valuable to be the only guy willing to mix it up.
He's also becoming a pretty good player too. Why can other teams dress a HW enforcer and we cant? Even if we can disagree what guys like Gilles bring shouldent Haley at least be here? He is far from a goon and can play. We are not going anywhere and we can use the extra toughness and character for this team.

You can say what you want about the role of an enforcer, but there are gm's coaches and players that know what these guys bring to the table. A perfect example are The New York Rangers who are the best team in the NHL and lead the NHL in fighting majors. They already lead the NHL in fighting majors are already one of the toughest teams in the NHL and the Rangers go out and trade for the biggest enforcer/goon in the NHL in John Scott.

Why did Sather say "Rangers General Manager Glen Sather said he traded a fifth-round pick to Chicago for Scott so he could take care of “the fooling around that happens this time of year.”

If these guys are useless why did the best team in the NHL the Rangers, a team who already has massive team toughness and lead the league in fighting majors go out and trade for the biggest goon in the NHL in John Scott if these guys serve no purpose? You may disagree with me but there would not be so many of these guys left if they served no purpose. The HW is a dying breed, I agree but that role is still there in todays game.

This current Isles team has many many holes and toughness is certainly one of them. But more than simply dressing a goon, they lack team toughness overall. Look at the Bruins last year. Did they goon it up? No, but they have guys that are tough as nails.

The role of the enforcer is still there, you're right. In meaningless games. The "fooling around" that Sather is referring to is teams with nothing to play for use this time of year as a tryout opportunity for some of their minor leaguers. Many of whom will like to get noticed (i.e. fight) so they can be on NHL teams radars for next season.

Once the playoffs role around, the goons will be in the press box.