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2012 Redskins Screw Up The Offseason Thread (+QB, -1st Rounders, -$36 Million!)

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:15 PM
  #26
Duke33
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
OK a couple things:

1) we were not going to compete last year and with the mess Shanny/Allen inhereted it was going to take multiple drafts to rebuild. We tried the quick fix with McNabb the previous year and it bombed. OFCOURSE he was going to stick by Rex and Beck. What was he supposed to say "We know our QBs suck". I believe, while trying to win last year, he was secretly hoping we'd kinda tank to grab up Luck. We need a YOUNG franchise QB in addition to other positions where we need to get younger. He has done a good job purging overpaid and lazy vets.

2) In the NFL its hard to win. That much is true. So few teams make the playoffs compared to the NHL. But remember...he didn't have a guy like Allen riding shotgun with him in Denver. Allen, while working under a more oppressive owner in Al Davis, turned the Raiders around with his decisions and then brought a championship to Tampa. Clearly he is respected and accomplished.

A rebuild takes time to do properly. Last year we had an excellent draft and are in position to have another one this year whether we trade up/down or stay at #6 in the 1st.

With the mess he inhereted it was unreasonable to expect a turn around in a couple years.
We weren't going to compete last year? That's a different tune than what was being sung here and in the media after they beat the Giants (the injury-ravaged Giants) in Week 1. People were signing Shanahan's and Grossman's praises. Then when they barely squeaked by the lousy Cardinals and awful Rams, people were talking playoffs. Then they started playing real teams and both the team and coaching got exposed big time. Remember, Shanahan was quoted as staking his rep on Rex and Beck being able to play. And yeah, the McNabb thing bombed. But Shanahan gets a free pass for that? And saying he was secretly hoping the team tanked to get Luck? Really?

The NFL it's hard to win. But Detroit can go from winless to a playoff team in 3 years? SF can change night and day basically because of coaching and a couple acquisitions? Last year's draft was ok, I wouldn't call it excellent. They still have holes all over the place. Their defense was looking better but then slid pretty badly down the stretch. The offense, as everyone knows, was a joke.

A turnaround is one thing. Some signs of progress would have been nice. Instead they regressed, despite this "excellent" draft and the alleged genius of the Shanahan boys. Thousands of ticket holders gave up and either stopped going, or put their seats up for sale so the enemy's fans could get them. The ones that stayed booed more than cheered. This team's won two playoff games in nineteen years. Shanahan has won one playoff game in thirteen years. I've said many times, I need to see progress on the field before I believe any more glorious "this is our year" tripe.

I also believe Snyder may be quiet, but lurking under the surface like a crocodile. I'm sure he's happy to see tens of thousands of Cowboy, or Eagle, or Jet, or Patriot, etc fans invading his stadium. I'm sure he loves losing ticket holders by the thousand. I hope no matter what the Skins do this draft, either trade up for a QB or spend the picks across the board, they get better on the field. They win 5, 6, 7 games again and we'll see how patient Danny still is.

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03-01-2012, 02:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Molseed View Post
We weren't going to compete last year? That's a different tune than what was being sung here and in the media after they beat the Giants (the injury-ravaged Giants) in Week 1. People were signing Shanahan's and Grossman's praises. Then when they barely squeaked by the lousy Cardinals and awful Rams, people were talking playoffs. Then they started playing real teams and both the team and coaching got exposed big time. Remember, Shanahan was quoted as staking his rep on Rex and Beck being able to play. And yeah, the McNabb thing bombed. But Shanahan gets a free pass for that? And saying he was secretly hoping the team tanked to get Luck? Really?

The NFL it's hard to win. But Detroit can go from winless to a playoff team in 3 years? SF can change night and day basically because of coaching and a couple acquisitions? Last year's draft was ok, I wouldn't call it excellent. They still have holes all over the place. Their defense was looking better but then slid pretty badly down the stretch. The offense, as everyone knows, was a joke.

A turnaround is one thing. Some signs of progress would have been nice. Instead they regressed, despite this "excellent" draft and the alleged genius of the Shanahan boys. Thousands of ticket holders gave up and either stopped going, or put their seats up for sale so the enemy's fans could get them. The ones that stayed booed more than cheered. This team's won two playoff games in nineteen years. Shanahan has won one playoff game in thirteen years. I've said many times, I need to see progress on the field before I believe any more glorious "this is our year" tripe.

I also believe Snyder may be quiet, but lurking under the surface like a crocodile. I'm sure he's happy to see tens of thousands of Cowboy, or Eagle, or Jet, or Patriot, etc fans invading his stadium. I'm sure he loves losing ticket holders by the thousand. I hope no matter what the Skins do this draft, either trade up for a QB or spend the picks across the board, they get better on the field. They win 5, 6, 7 games again and we'll see how patient Danny still is.
At the begining of the season we were picked (I think by SI) to finish dead last. No one with rational expectations was thinking playoffs.

I also don't think we regressed. Both the O and D looked better despite going to a more youthful lineup. I saw progress even if we didn't win that many games.

RE: Detroit..they were bound to get better at some point. Multiple top 5 picks over the years (despite Millen) means you are gonna hit on some.

Again Shanny/Allen inhererted a HORRIBLE mess of a situation due to Cerrato. I thought they were better last year than the year prior.

You're gonna have to be more patient. I think Snyder has learned from past mistakes and he doesn't have his hands in operations any longer.

Sometimes you have to take a step or two back to take a few forward. If we have a rook qb next year then I fully expect a step back.

Shanahan and Allen both have superbowl rings. You don't get those by sucking. Gotta let them do their thing and stay the course.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:45 PM
  #28
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What do you guys think about the Manning rumors if the Skins don't get RG3?

Supposedly Manning is a fan of Shanahan.

The Skins have $49m in cap space.

The Skins are one of a few teams that have the cap space to acquire Manning and his WR BFF Reggie Wayne.

An NFL reporter speculated recently about the Skins possibly signing Manning, Wayne, and Manningham.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #29
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Manning would be hurt immediately. So we'd be right back to ****ed. Offensive line. Offensive line. Offensive line.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:00 PM
  #30
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Manning would be hurt immediately. So we'd be right back to ****ed. Offensive line. Offensive line. Offensive line.
This.

Though its tough to gauge the o-line without knowing how free agency plays out. They could sign Carl Nicks, the best guard in the league and take Reiff at #6 and that'll in itself, greatly improve the o-line.

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03-01-2012, 03:22 PM
  #31
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I dunno. At this point. I kinda want them to go the Manning route...just for laughs when something bad does happen.

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03-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #32
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If I were the GM: Manning and a receiver (Colston?) in free agency, add a safety/CB to bolster the defensive backfield. Trade down from six and draft Poe in the first and spend the next couple of picks on offensive linemen. Obviously, Manning is a gamble - if he pans out, I think the above moves could make the Redskins a contender. If he gets hurt or is ineffective, well, I think the supporting cast would be much better for a rookie QB in next year's draft.

Granted, he's my combine crush, but I think Poe has the ability to transform the Redskins defense from good to dominant.

Quote:
Dontari Poe, Memphis: Poe was impressive from start to finish. He posted 44 reps on the bench, leading all participants in this year's combine. He later motored his 346-pound frame for a 40 time under 5.0 seconds, which included an impressive 1.71-second 10-yard split. During position drills, Poe moved more like a linebacker than a big-bodied defensive lineman. He was quick, explosive and has scouts excited about his upside potential.
Link

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:23 PM
  #33
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Let's just say Donovan McNabb is correct when he talks about Manning in DC. It's not going to work. Plus he's too old.

Not sure if he would be allowed to call his own plays in DC town either. The Shanahans are not exactly making me happy right now. The last two years have certainly been a disappointment for a guy like Shanahan who was supposed to be a genius.

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03-01-2012, 04:37 PM
  #34
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If I were the GM: Manning and a receiver (Colston?) in free agency, add a safety/CB to bolster the defensive backfield. Trade down from six and draft Poe in the first and spend the next couple of picks on offensive linemen. Obviously, Manning is a gamble - if he pans out, I think the above moves could make the Redskins a contender. If he gets hurt or is ineffective, well, I think the supporting cast would be much better for a rookie QB in next year's draft.

Granted, he's my combine crush, but I think Poe has the ability to transform the Redskins defense from good to dominant.



Link
Poe does seem impressive, but with Jenkins coming in this year and with the way the line played last year, we have much bigger holes to be filling. Defensively I think picking up both a CB and a Safety is 100% needed, and I think an inside linebacker needs to come in now, because London is likely done after this year, and we really have no depth. Poe should be a difference maker wherever he lands, but there are much larger holes on this teams D.

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:58 PM
  #35
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I like Poe and I don't think Cofield is a good NT, but we have more pressing needs. Jenkins isn't a NT, he will add depth to DE though.

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03-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Manning would be hurt immediately. So we'd be right back to ****ed. Offensive line. Offensive line. Offensive line.
That archaic thinking is the problem with our franchise. A Good QB can make a Bad team amazing.

And the fact, I think it was you, said out team got worse last year just makes me shake my head.

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03-01-2012, 05:23 PM
  #37
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Yep. He doesn't even need to be healthy. You are brilliant.

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03-01-2012, 05:57 PM
  #38
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Yep. He doesn't even need to be healthy. You are brilliant.
I'm not an advocate for Peyton Manning, but he's not the only example.

The OL just has to give a QB 2 or 3 seconds these days. Our line can do that. If you take out the terrible game by Beck (where, yes, it was his fault on almost every sack), our Line does not look near as terrible as it's made out to be. On top of that, the team wasn't a bad Veteran team as it was in the past, it was a Bad Young team and almost all Rookies showed promise.

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03-01-2012, 06:03 PM
  #39
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Old
03-01-2012, 06:07 PM
  #40
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I'm not an advocate for Peyton Manning, but he's not the only example.

The OL just has to give a QB 2 or 3 seconds these days. Our line can do that. If you take out the terrible game by Beck (where, yes, it was his fault on almost every sack), our Line does not look near as terrible as it's made out to be. On top of that, the team wasn't a bad Veteran team as it was in the past, it was a Bad Young team and almost all Rookies showed promise.
Our QBs got hit 108 times last year. 3rd worst in the NFL. I don't know how you qualify that as anything other than bad, ESPECIALLY when you're considering bringing in a fragile QB.

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03-01-2012, 06:22 PM
  #41
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Quote:
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That archaic thinking is the problem with our franchise. A Good QB can make a Bad team amazing.
Yeah look what the addition of Brad Johnson did for Norval. Good old Norval has been dinning out on that 1 playoff run for how long now?

If Manning becomes a Skin the O-line will have to be upgraded and reinforced. Neck surgery or not a 36 year old QB must be protected.

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Old
03-01-2012, 06:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
At the begining of the season we were picked (I think by SI) to finish dead last. No one with rational expectations was thinking playoffs.

I also don't think we regressed. Both the O and D looked better despite going to a more youthful lineup. I saw progress even if we didn't win that many games.

RE: Detroit..they were bound to get better at some point. Multiple top 5 picks over the years (despite Millen) means you are gonna hit on some.

Again Shanny/Allen inhererted a HORRIBLE mess of a situation due to Cerrato. I thought they were better last year than the year prior.

You're gonna have to be more patient. I think Snyder has learned from past mistakes and he doesn't have his hands in operations any longer.

Sometimes you have to take a step or two back to take a few forward. If we have a rook qb next year then I fully expect a step back.

Shanahan and Allen both have superbowl rings. You don't get those by sucking. Gotta let them do their thing and stay the course.
Picked to finish last is one thing. But when they were 3-1 people were going nuts. The D looked better early on, again playing mostly patsies. Then they started playing some decent offenses and they started giving up yards and points. Philly came in here, and the Redskins had a bye week to prepare for them and rest up. And the Eagles first two possessions went for drives of 70-something and 90-something right down the field. Game over. At the end of the year, the defense allowed 30 points or more in 4 of their last 5 games, including the Minnesota embarrassment, where a 2-win team came into Fedex and ran for 240 yards, with mostly their backup runners. That pretty much ended any talk for me about how good their defense is.

How does anyone know what Snyder thinks or knows. He knows one thing, how to make money. With the fan base shrinking, we'll see how long his patience is.

Shanahan's got two rings from the 90s, when he had a HOF qb and an outstanding back. Funny though how the same team he won those with ended up firing him for underachieving. Bottom line is he has done nothing in the last 13 years. That's not a slump. That's a long period of failure. It's a perfectly fair question to ask why. I wouldn't expect rings every season but one postseason win in over a decade?

Matching his record with the Redskins two postseason wins in 19 seasons, you can see why some of us are skeptical until they start proving it on the field. I'm sick of talk and bold predictions. I'm sick of exciting drafts and exciting FA pickups. Just start winning and showing signs of progress.

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03-01-2012, 07:06 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Our QBs got hit 108 times last year. 3rd worst in the NFL. I don't know how you qualify that as anything other than bad, ESPECIALLY when you're considering bringing in a fragile QB.
And you're not understanding what it means to be a good QB. A good QB gets the ball out in just about 3 seconds, sometimes less if i remember correctly. Rex and Beck held onto the ball for AGES and would never make a decision, or they'd throw it into an ill-advised area.

Shaving off 1 or 2 seconds makes our line immediately better. The run blocking had already drastically improved as the year went along.

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03-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #44
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Yeah look what the addition of Brad Johnson did for Norval. Good old Norval has been dinning out on that 1 playoff run for how long now?

If Manning becomes a Skin the O-line will have to be upgraded and reinforced. Neck surgery or not a 36 year old QB must be protected.
I don't want Manning so its a moot point.

Regardless, my point is that you add someone who has a fast release and an overall higher Football IQ your line is made to look better than it is. It works the same with a bad QB. Slow decision making and holding the ball to long add up more hits and more sacks.

Do I think our line needs improvement? Yes, I'd love to get a new RT and a true Center (Or LG to move Kory to C) but the idea that you build from the OL is an archaic form of thinking Redskin fans are stuck on because of the Hogs.

The things Joe Gibbs did with the Hogs and his rag tag group of QB's is what made him a HOF Coach. Its what made him one of the best ever. It's not something you can continue to do in this day and age; you -need- your QB.

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03-01-2012, 07:10 PM
  #45
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Picked to finish last is one thing. But when they were 3-1 people were going nuts. The D looked better early on, again playing mostly patsies. Then they started playing some decent offenses and they started giving up yards and points. Philly came in here, and the Redskins had a bye week to prepare for them and rest up. And the Eagles first two possessions went for drives of 70-something and 90-something right down the field. Game over. At the end of the year, the defense allowed 30 points or more in 4 of their last 5 games, including the Minnesota embarrassment, where a 2-win team came into Fedex and ran for 240 yards, with mostly their backup runners. That pretty much ended any talk for me about how good their defense is.

How does anyone know what Snyder thinks or knows. He knows one thing, how to make money. With the fan base shrinking, we'll see how long his patience is.

Shanahan's got two rings from the 90s, when he had a HOF qb and an outstanding back. Funny though how the same team he won those with ended up firing him for underachieving. Bottom line is he has done nothing in the last 13 years. That's not a slump. That's a long period of failure. It's a perfectly fair question to ask why. I wouldn't expect rings every season but one postseason win in over a decade?

Matching his record with the Redskins two postseason wins in 19 seasons, you can see why some of us are skeptical until they start proving it on the field. I'm sick of talk and bold predictions. I'm sick of exciting drafts and exciting FA pickups. Just start winning and showing signs of progress.
Yeah, no. He was fired because he finally decided to keep his DC and not fire him as the front office requested.

He also fielded a few pretty good teams with a pretty bad QB. And look at the offense he had built before he was fired and McDaniels traded them all away.

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03-01-2012, 08:05 PM
  #46
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Report: Saints want to pay Brees like a “very good,” not “great,” QB

Maybe Manning won't be the only can't miss FA QB on the market.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-not-great-qb/

I don't think Brees hits FA, and the Saints can't be stupid enough to allow him to, but in the oh so slim chance he does I'd take Brees over Manning in a heartbeat.

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03-01-2012, 08:14 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molseed View Post
Picked to finish last is one thing. But when they were 3-1 people were going nuts. The D looked better early on, again playing mostly patsies. Then they started playing some decent offenses and they started giving up yards and points. Philly came in here, and the Redskins had a bye week to prepare for them and rest up. And the Eagles first two possessions went for drives of 70-something and 90-something right down the field. Game over. At the end of the year, the defense allowed 30 points or more in 4 of their last 5 games, including the Minnesota embarrassment, where a 2-win team came into Fedex and ran for 240 yards, with mostly their backup runners. That pretty much ended any talk for me about how good their defense is.

How does anyone know what Snyder thinks or knows. He knows one thing, how to make money. With the fan base shrinking, we'll see how long his patience is.

Shanahan's got two rings from the 90s, when he had a HOF qb and an outstanding back. Funny though how the same team he won those with ended up firing him for underachieving. Bottom line is he has done nothing in the last 13 years. That's not a slump. That's a long period of failure. It's a perfectly fair question to ask why. I wouldn't expect rings every season but one postseason win in over a decade?

Matching his record with the Redskins two postseason wins in 19 seasons, you can see why some of us are skeptical until they start proving it on the field. I'm sick of talk and bold predictions. I'm sick of exciting drafts and exciting FA pickups. Just start winning and showing signs of progress.
You are a broken record with this crap, but we all have our pet peeves.

Winning SB's isn't easy. There is a reason why no HC has won the SB with two different teams. That makes the odds firmly against Shanahan winning one with the Skins, but I would rather Shanahan see the end of his 5 year deal then whatever bull**** alternative LiL Danny would come up with to replace him. Success or failure, whatever team the Skins put on the field after Shanahan's 5 year deal is up will be 10 times better than if Uncle Vinny was running the show during the same 5 year span. That is fact.

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03-01-2012, 08:52 PM
  #48
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I think it is a mistake to trade 4+ picks or whatever. All of the good teams have built through the draft. There are capable QBs out there via FA and the draft. No way I give up the potential of 3-5 starters for RGIII, etc.

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03-01-2012, 09:34 PM
  #49
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Yeah look what the addition of Brad Johnson did for Norval. Good old Norval has been dinning out on that 1 playoff run for how long now?

If Manning becomes a Skin the O-line will have to be upgraded and reinforced. Neck surgery or not a 36 year old QB must be protected.
Let's keep it real and not make it sound like they would have to do it all only to protect poor brittle Peyton. This is fact regardless of who plays QB. The line must continue to improve.

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03-01-2012, 10:28 PM
  #50
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I don't want Manning so its a moot point.

Regardless, my point is that you add someone who has a fast release and an overall higher Football IQ your line is made to look better than it is. It works the same with a bad QB. Slow decision making and holding the ball to long add up more hits and more sacks.

Do I think our line needs improvement? Yes, I'd love to get a new RT and a true Center (Or LG to move Kory to C) but the idea that you build from the OL is an archaic form of thinking Redskin fans are stuck on because of the Hogs.

The things Joe Gibbs did with the Hogs and his rag tag group of QB's is what made him a HOF Coach. Its what made him one of the best ever. It's not something you can continue to do in this day and age; you -need- your QB.
Dude, it has nothing to do with the Hogs. Look at the Steelers and Colts. Heck, look at the Patriots. You want a dynamic offense? The ball isn't coming out right away. Your receivers have to get downfield. You want to draft a rookie? There's no way in crap they're making good decisions that quickly for YEARS.

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