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2011-12 Minnesota Wild III - It doesn't matter

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Old
03-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Trading Schultz at the deadline was pretty stupid, I'll have to admit.

I mean, I'm glad that it's proving that I was correct on Schultz and his effectiveness on the team, but not glad that it's dragged the team down this much. That should have been a draft day trade.
Going to have to disagree with you. Schultz would not have made a bit of difference in helping to stop this slide. I liked the trade, this team just needs to put on its big boy pants...they get paid to play hockey for god sakes.

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03-07-2012, 11:57 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I'll actually criticize him for one of the biggest head scratchers I've seen a GM do...

He gutted the locker room at the Trade Deadline.

Basically went in there and ripped the foundation out from under them and didn't give them anything to hold on to.

Sorry, but you get rid of Zidlicky and Zanon, team is fine. Get rid of Schultz? I'm still confused about that...

Real world example; If your boss fires your best co-worker friend who also did a **** ton of work for the company... Where does your morale go? Toilet.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if several "key" players ask for a trade this off season.
That analogy just simply doesn't work. You could try beat it into place by saying your boss transferred your friend-coworker to another facility and that let him bring in someone else whose skill set better matches the staff. It'll give you an adjustment period, but in 3-4 months you'll more or less have forgotten there was ever anything different. So we face that adjustment period now, when losing can actually be beneficial instead of at the start of next season. There's a risk of "poisoning the well" but it's a pretty low probability.

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03-07-2012, 12:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
It's snowing outside, therefore the grocery store checkout lady should be fired.

That's the exact same argument composition.
So you don't have a valid comeback. I see.

Yeo was to be praised for getting the team to #1 overall and excellent defense, but isn't to be blamed for the team's complete lack of resilience and terrible defensive play?

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03-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #104
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03-07-2012, 12:21 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
So you don't have a valid comeback. I see.

Yeo was to be praised for getting the team to #1 overall and excellent defense, but isn't to be blamed for the team's complete lack of resilience and terrible defensive play?
Partially blamed, not fully. Coaches get too much credit/blame for wins/losses anyways.

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03-07-2012, 12:22 PM
  #106
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Not blaming him fully. Saying he's partially to blame. Blaming the crappy players on the roster. Blaming the GM who put the roster together. Blaming the coach who can't get anything out of the roster.

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03-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #107
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And the good players not on the roster right now. Everybody shares in it.

Imagine if we only had Havlat's 26 games rather than Heatley's 60. Oh boy...

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03-07-2012, 01:22 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
So you don't have a valid comeback. I see.

Yeo was to be praised for getting the team to #1 overall and excellent defense, but isn't to be blamed for the team's complete lack of resilience and terrible defensive play?
No, that would be you who completely lacks a response, coupled with an absolutely brutal strawman and false dichotomy. Please, you're better than that. To literally use your argument:

7-1
4-1

Fire Babcock

5-2
9-2

Fire Quennville

8-4
3-1

Fire Quennville

3-1
4-0
3-1

Fire Quennville

Philapdelphia has allowed 6 or more (as many as 9) goals against on 7 occasions this season. Laviolette is horrible amirite?



It's entirely possible that you have a legitimate reason to criticize Yeo, but you sure as hell haven't told anyone it yet.

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03-07-2012, 01:24 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Not blaming him fully. Saying he's partially to blame. Blaming the crappy players on the roster. Blaming the GM who put the roster together. Blaming the coach who can't get anything out of the roster.
So what you're saying is, you're dissatisfied with the product on the ice, so you're blanket throwing the entire organization under the bus in a hissy fit. Goalies allowed 13 goals over two games, that Bob Mason is just completely worthless isn't he?

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03-07-2012, 01:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
So what you're saying is, you're dissatisfied with the product on the ice, so you're blanket throwing the entire organization under the bus in a hissy fit. Goalies allowed 13 goals over two games, that Bob Mason is just completely worthless isn't he?
The fans continue to buy tickets which obviously means they are ok with losing and infact encourage it. I say you fire the fans as they are obviously to blame.

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03-07-2012, 01:36 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
No, that would be you who completely lacks a response, coupled with an absolutely brutal strawman and false dichotomy. Please, you're better than that. To literally use your argument:

7-1
4-1

Fire Babcock

5-2
9-2

Fire Quennville

8-4
3-1

Fire Quennville

3-1
4-0
3-1

Fire Quennville

Philapdelphia has allowed 6 or more (as many as 9) goals against on 7 occasions this season. Laviolette is horrible amirite?



It's entirely possible that you have a legitimate reason to criticize Yeo, but you sure as hell haven't told anyone it yet.
Our blowout losses are also a part of a larger downward spiral. Have/did those coaches not receive criticism during those times too? And probably rightfully so. There is a difference between criticizing somebody's performance and calling for a firing.

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03-07-2012, 01:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
The fans continue to buy tickets which obviously means they are ok with losing and infact encourage it. I say you fire the fans as they are obviously to blame.
I realize you're being sarcastic, but I'll still point out the obvious: fans are not employees and do not have a direct effect on the organization, yada yada yada...

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03-07-2012, 01:38 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Our blowout losses are also a part of a larger downward spiral. Have/did those coaches not receive criticism during those times too? And probably rightfully so. There is a difference between criticizing somebody's performance and calling for a firing.
Again, I will ask the question.

Is it a skill or a will issue?

I don't think any pro athlete wants to or likes to lose, they are far to competitive for that.

It has to come down to the skill on the team currently....there just isn't a whole lot of it and that is not on Yeo's shoulders.

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03-07-2012, 01:40 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I realize you're being sarcastic, but I'll still point out the obvious: fans are not employees and do not have a direct effect on the organization, yada yada yada...
I was being sarcastic, but I will also point out the obvious. Fans are the source of the cash. If Chipotle continually messed up your burrito's or gave you food poisoning would you continue to eat there? If everyone collectively stopped eating there would they be forced to shape up or go out of business?

Fans certainly have a direct effect upon the organization.

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03-07-2012, 01:41 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
Again, I will ask the question.

Is it a skill or a will issue?

I don't think any pro athlete wants to or likes to lose, they are far to competitive for that.

It has to come down to the skill on the team currently....there just isn't a whole lot of it and that is not on Yeo's shoulders.
Some of it is. Not all of it, and probably not even most of it. But I really think he needs to adjust his system and his gameplan for the rest of the season, or we are going to see more embarrassments like last night. Maybe he has already, and the players just can't execute it, but nevertheless, the coaching staff is usually the figureheads for the performance of the team.

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03-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Some of it is. Not all of it, and probably not even most of it. But I really think he needs to adjust his system and his gameplan for the rest of the season, or we are going to see more embarrassments like last night. Maybe he has already, and the players just can't execute it, but nevertheless, the coaching staff is usually the figureheads for the performance of the team.
What makes you think it is a system issue?

The Penguins seem to be doing just fine.

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03-07-2012, 01:43 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
I was being sarcastic, but I will also point out the obvious. Fans are the source of the cash. If Chipotle continually messed up your burrito's or gave you food poisoning would you continue to eat there? If everyone collectively stopped eating there would they be forced to shape up or go out of business?

Fans certainly have a direct effect upon the organization.
Well, the organization isn't going to refund the STH's or the suite holders their money back, so them not going really doesn't send a message. The season ticket renewals should be an interesting number to look at when it comes out.

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03-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
So we face that adjustment period now, when losing can actually be beneficial instead of at the start of next season. There's a risk of "poisoning the well" but it's a pretty low probability.
The problem is, we traded what little leadership we had left. Schultz appears to be a big part of the leadership and veteran presence in the locker room. We don't have anyone left. Koivu hasn't stepped up. Cullen? Brodziak? Please. Heatley is probably the only one that has semi-stepped up.

There's no one on the blue line now. Zanon? Gone. Schultz? Gone. Zidlicky? Gone (and good riddance. He was the opposite). But there is no veterans, no leadership from the blue line.

To be truthful I don't know if Suter is going to help the locker room. We need a Fedoruk or a Hnidy on this team and badly.

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03-07-2012, 01:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
So what you're saying is, you're dissatisfied with the product on the ice, so you're blanket throwing the entire organization under the bus in a hissy fit. Goalies allowed 13 goals over two games, that Bob Mason is just completely worthless isn't he?
You continue to distort and exaggerate my statements because you don't agree with them while completely avoiding my questions.

I'll ask one more time, is the coach at all responsible for the on ice product?

Over 38 games, the Wild have 3.32 GAA with a 0.894 save percentage. Is that a large enough sample size?

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03-07-2012, 01:51 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Our blowout losses are also a part of a larger downward spiral. Have/did those coaches not receive criticism during those times too? And probably rightfully so. There is a difference between criticizing somebody's performance and calling for a firing.
I can't speak to any of the Chicago ones, but the Detroit one had absolutely no one calling out Babcock. It was also part of a larger downward spiral (full set was 7-1, 4-1, 4-2, 1-0, 2-1 OT, 4-1) that only righted itself with home win over the then hapless Ducks.

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03-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
You continue to distort and exaggerate my statements because you don't agree with them while completely avoiding my questions.

I'll ask one more time, is the coach at all responsible for the on ice product?

Over 38 games, the Wild have 3.32 GAA with a 0.894 save percentage. Is that a large enough sample size?
It's been a basic cluster****. Yeo is burned out. Players have tuned him out. Fletcher is grasping at straws.

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03-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I can't speak to any of the Chicago ones, but the Detroit one had absolutely no one calling out Babcock. It was also part of a larger downward spiral (full set was 7-1, 4-1, 4-2, 1-0, 2-1 OT, 4-1) that only righted itself with home win over the then hapless Ducks.
I know Roenick came out and defended Quennville so there was probably some rumblings. I just don't really see your comparison, considering all of those teams are still in the playoffs as of today, and we have plummitted as we have. Injuries and lack of depth are a part of it, but the coaching staff is not infalible.

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03-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #123
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It's been a basic cluster****. Yeo is burned out. Players have tuned him out. Fletcher is grasping at straws.
How do you know? You in the clubhouse?

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03-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I know Roenick came out and defended Quennville so there was probably some rumblings. I just don't really see your comparison, considering all of those teams are still in the playoffs as of today, and we have plummitted as we have. Injuries and lack of depth are a part of it, but the coaching staff is not infalible.
Ok, you are the coach....what do you do differently?

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03-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #125
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How do you know? You in the clubhouse?
Their play says it all. As well the documented cases on clutter losing it.

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