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The Discussion of Banning Fighting

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Old
03-01-2012, 08:48 AM
  #1
Kimota
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The Discussion of Banning Fighting

is an important one. It will affect the way we view hockey and our enjoyement of hockey for years to come. Moderators bare with me on this. Most of the discussions about it have been civilized and getting rid of those threads prevent people who don't have the power to express the displeasure to at least have a voice. I've seen more heated discussions having had the chance to go far longer than this.

About the ban in fighting in junior, it has already taken place in a several markets. I went to a few games in the last three years in the Q, to watch the Quebec Rempart and I left the games in the middle because it was so boring. Not only there was no fighting but the physical contacts were nonexistant and it's not like great plays can compensate as the talent pool has been diluted over the years. In this day and age, I wonder how scouts can evaluate guys if you can't possibly see them in tougher situations. Other than the rare unique top offensive talent most of the rest of the guys seem to be average and it's worse because there's no push back.

I wonder though if it wouldn't be feasable to start an alternative league at that level? If Magor Junior don't allow fighting, why not allow it for Junior B and lower levels like these? Or create a league where if someone is not drafted by NHL teams and reach the age of 20, that player could spill directly into that league where rules would be easier for fighters?

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03-01-2012, 09:45 AM
  #2
Joe Hallenback
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The WHL is not going to ban fighting. They will follow the NHL's lead on this.

Branch is a political tool. All he cares about are what someone in Toronto thinks or more specifically the media in Toronto. Everytime he opens his yap I can see Ron Robison(WHL Comish) cringe.

Until the players say they want to ban fighting then everyone else should just butt out.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:02 AM
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Keep it civil and we can allow the discussion to continue.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:22 AM
  #4
acor
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Fighting- yes
Enforcers- no.

Thats my opinion.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:48 AM
  #5
hockeylegend11
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I hope the CHL does not get sucked into this by USA Hockey and Hockey Canada

To ban fighting would take away the CHLs lure of players get to the NHL faster because

of its pro style game

Well u take out fighting and u have a college style game of no fighting and more

stickwork

USA Hockey and its extension the USHL steer players towards college and university

and could care less about jr hockey in canada

The CHl accounts for 55.4 percent of nhl players and is the major feeding ground for

its players

Millions of dollars per year are doled out to the chl by the nhl for player dev

Perhaps if the NHl were to threaten to lessen severley the amount paid because players

are not being fully prepared for the rigors of pro hockey, the banning of fighting may not

come to pass

My feeling is unless the pros ban it, the jrs should not either

Hockey people like Bobby Smith,Bob Boughner and Don Hay know more then the suits

who have never played or coached at high levels

Let those people along with current and past players decide the issue

If one has not played at a high level they dont get it

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Old
03-01-2012, 11:16 AM
  #6
Fel 96
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I agree it's an important topic but like 10MM said, keep it civil and everything should be fine.

Also, I disagree about the Quebec Remparts statement but let's not go off-topic. Heh.

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Old
03-01-2012, 12:32 PM
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Kimota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acor View Post
Fighting- yes
Enforcers- no.

Thats my opinion.
I don't have a problem with that. But what happens if a softer player is targeted?

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Old
03-01-2012, 12:35 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
I agree it's an important topic but like 10MM said, keep it civil and everything should be fine.

Also, I disagree about the Quebec Remparts statement but let's not go off-topic. Heh.
To the Remparts matchs i've gotten to it was almost unwatchable. The only game I had a semi good time was when Grigorenko scored three goals but like I said earlier it's a player of exception and I loved it because he was on my team. But even that match was pathetic.

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Old
03-01-2012, 12:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acor View Post
Fighting- yes
Enforcers- no.

Thats my opinion.
I concur 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I don't have a problem with that. But what happens if a softer player is targeted?
There are 20 guys on a team. Surely one of them has a sack.

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Old
03-01-2012, 12:57 PM
  #10
robat19
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Fighting in the NHL is fine. Most of the guys don't just go out there to fight a fight. They have a motive in the fight. I feel like junior players (maybe not so much in the CHL) fight just fight. To show off for someone in the crowd.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #11
BlackNgold 84
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You can't take fighting out of juniors.. they took it away from college (if there ever was fighting allowed. I can't remember) and although i'll watch some college hockey I at times its not the fighting that bothers me its the hits. With how the players go so fast now it ups the chances of a particular player being hurt or targeted and there being no retribution. Fighting has gone back since the beginning of hockey. You can't take it out or it just becomes a passive sport and resembles soccer on skates.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:29 PM
  #12
Madam Kadri
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Fighting should remain in the NHL, if only because there are no strong reasons to end it.

People want to ban it to protect players' health. But swept under the rug is that some of the most recent and notorious concussions come from events that are often much more subtle and not noticed except by those who watched the games. And those who think that sports who do not allowing fighting do not have players with CTE are absolutely deulding themselves. Football has their own issues with CTE even without fighting. So, while fighting might appear to be a big splash, it might actually do nothing to stop the more common ways a player could sustain head trauma. While the fans think "problem solved", the players are not experiencing that at all.

People want it banned because other major leagues don't allow it. There is no reason to emulate other sports leagues for the sake of following them; the sports developed in their own way, and the other sports have their own logistical differences that might make fighting less prevalent anyway.

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Old
03-01-2012, 09:56 PM
  #13
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The WHL is not going to ban fighting. They will follow the NHL's lead on this.

Branch is a political tool. All he cares about are what someone in Toronto thinks or more specifically the media in Toronto. Everytime he opens his yap I can see Ron Robison(WHL Comish) cringe.

Until the players say they want to ban fighting then everyone else should just butt out.
Which is why it makes Branch look even more ridiculous. I think the NHL would ban fighting before the WHL would (and the NHL won't). The WHL has always been by far the toughest of the three leagues. We might live in a wimpy society now, but it hasn't gotten that bad that the WHL will get sucked in. And in all honesty, who would have thought Bob Nicholson was such a lightweight when it came to fighting? Branch, he's a clown, we all knew that about him, but Nicholson I had no clue.

Look, getting rid of fighting reminds me of certain social issues in our world. The minority always make the most noise and it leads people to believe that most people want this. What is it 95% of HOCKEY fans want fighting in the game? Probably even a higher percentage for players. The anti-fighting critics remind me of the anti-spanking critics. They are in the extreme minority, always have been. Unless you were going to school in the 1950s or 1960s you should ask your parents (or grandparents) about getting the strap at school by the principal. They all got it. And every kid worth their salt has the same story about what happened back then. If you got it at school, your dad gave it to you at home too. So why was the belt taken out of schools? Because maybe 5% of parents didn't like it. They made the most noise and "poof" it was gone. It happens with spanking in the home, ball hockey on the street, climbing trees being dangerous, Halloween candy being dangerous and so on and so forth. The MINORITY makes the most noise and it leads people to believe this is something every parent believes.

So the anti-fighting people remind me of those paranoid parents who inspect their children's Halloween candy. Or who don't let their kids walk to school alone. They do not represent anywhere near most people's opinions but their paranoia spills into everyone else and a panic ensues and then we have idiotic discussions about getting rid of fighting in hockey - again. It's a cycle.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:08 PM
  #14
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I use to get all fired up when talking about this subject but now I just tell myself the vast majority of NHL players and fans support fighting. I am ok with the slow death of the enforcer and the decrease in fighting but it's never going away completely. If people do not like it then dont watch it.

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Old
03-04-2012, 09:15 AM
  #15
Kimota
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They were saying on HNIC that the official of the CHL said the goal is to eventualy get rid of fighting forever.

All this talk because of the link to concussion is stupid. David Branch keep talking oh when parents come to our league to ask what were are offering them, safety is a big thing. Once you become a teenager you should be able to take care of yourself physically, we're not talking about young kids here. Of course you might get consussed in a fight but so what, it's part of the deal that when you fist fight, it's gonna hurt! Might as well take boxing and MMA out since it's way more damaging to the brain. Nobody is creating an urgent commity on the dangerous effects on concussions in MMA.

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03-04-2012, 11:17 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
is an important one. It will affect the way we view hockey and our enjoyement of hockey for years to come. Moderators bare with me on this. Most of the discussions about it have been civilized and getting rid of those threads prevent people who don't have the power to express the displeasure to at least have a voice. I've seen more heated discussions having had the chance to go far longer than this.

About the ban in fighting in junior, it has already taken place in a several markets. I went to a few games in the last three years in the Q, to watch the Quebec Rempart and I left the games in the middle because it was so boring. Not only there was no fighting but the physical contacts were nonexistant and it's not like great plays can compensate as the talent pool has been diluted over the years. In this day and age, I wonder how scouts can evaluate guys if you can't possibly see them in tougher situations. Other than the rare unique top offensive talent most of the rest of the guys seem to be average and it's worse because there's no push back.

I wonder though if it wouldn't be feasable to start an alternative league at that level? If Magor Junior don't allow fighting, why not allow it for Junior B and lower levels like these? Or create a league where if someone is not drafted by NHL teams and reach the age of 20, that player could spill directly into that league where rules would be easier for fighters?
No offense to any Remparts fans, but it sounds like you either went to see the wrong team or wrong game. No physical contact sounds like a team issue. Fighting is a different story. There are sports out there strictly for fighting. Fighting is only a part of hockey, not what makes the sport interesting.

Anyways, there are not going to be leagues to make it "easier" for fighters. One of the ideas of the War on Fighting is to remove the players from the game who do not have intentions of scoring or playing defense. If it's all about fighting for you, there are sports for that.

Scouting is better than it's ever been, you see less and less busts in the early rounds, and more college players (where you can't fight), and undrafted players getting chances and sometimes succeeding, so they're obviously doing it right. In fact, pugilism was clouding their views more then than they are now.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #17
Kimota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
No offense to any Remparts fans, but it sounds like you either went to see the wrong team or wrong game
So you're a regular at Remparts games, eh?

Quote:
No physical contact sounds like a team issue. Fighting is a different story. There are sports out there strictly for fighting. Fighting is only a part of hockey, not what makes the sport interesting.
Naa the physical element has been down in the Q across the board since the concussions obsessions. Whether it's fighting, hitting, etc...Junior hockey ten years ago was a whole different ballgame, much more exciting, real hockey. And actually yea fighting is a huge part of what makes hockey great. Differently from other sports, hockey has this incredible unpreditability about it, it thrives on chaos. All the great memorable rivalries would have nothing without the fighting. Whether it's Bruins-Habs, Nords-Habs, Avs-Wings, etc...This is passion!

Quote:
Anyways, there are not going to be leagues to make it "easier" for fighters. One of the ideas of the War on Fighting is to remove the players from the game who do not have intentions of scoring or playing defense. If it's all about fighting for you, there are sports for that.
I don't like either MMA or Boxing because it's too controled. I only like fights in the context of hockey because of its unpredictability. As far as goons, not too long ago, I was against having staged fights because it has little connection to the rest of the game. But two elements changed my mind. 1- when I saw Staubits added to the Habs lineup recently, I saw my team play with courage like I had never seen before. It's like going to war with heavy artillery. 2-The Pens-Isles brawl would never had happened without guys like Gillies and Godard,etc...and to me that game was the best, most exciting i've seen of the last 10 years or so.



Quote:
Scouting is better than it's ever been, you see less and less busts in the early rounds, and more college players (where you can't fight), and undrafted players getting chances and sometimes succeeding, so they're obviously doing it right. In fact, pugilism was clouding their views more then than they are now.
I didn't say scouting is bad but that it's hard to evaluate hockey players and how they would play in tough situations when the type of play that is happening in Junior is so soft. I know scouts that are pretty discouraged by what they are seeing. The Devils' Head Scout Claude Carrier was talking about nothing is happening in the Q anymore.

As for myself I would be worried about drafting US college guys. It seems like most of them lack a mean streak. And they rarely play enough games so it takes longer for them to develop.

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Old
03-04-2012, 06:35 PM
  #18
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Nonononono. Hockey wont be the same without fights!

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Old
03-04-2012, 09:48 PM
  #19
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i wish fighting would stop so it takes the big guys who cant skate and score out of the game. yeah it can be exciting but i want to see more skill, skating, scoring, and dangles, not big guys who just take up a roster spot. possible future health problems too? i'm not sure

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:39 AM
  #20
Blue Regime
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HFBoards is the only place where a few people actually dislike fighting. Go to a game and ask any average Joe in the stands if they like fighting.

As a Ranger fan, I've been lucky to get to watch the #1 fighting team in the league this year. The best games by far have been the ones where things get nasty - Philly, Boston, etc.

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