Sekera, myers, ehrhoff, and leopold are all ahead of him right now. Regehr can be on the #1 pk, and play third pairing minutes. I love the guys defensive play, but he's slow and his passing is terrible. Maybe he won't be on the third pairing by next year, but probably 2 years from now. How much ES time is he playing right now?
Sekera, myers, ehrhoff, and leopold are all ahead of him right now. Regehr can be on the #1 pk, and play third pairing minutes. I love the guys defensive play, but he's slow and his passing is terrible. Maybe he won't be on the third pairing by next year, but probably 2 years from now. How much ES time is he playing right now?
He gets the sixth most Es toi/g of dmen.
He also won't be here after next year, so no worries about pairing placement.
Lol, comparing the teams record to try and prove Regehr is worse than Morrisonn? What the hell? Our record is worse with Ehrhoff, does that mean Morrisonn is better than him, too?
I would've liked a tad more offense, he usually puts up 20-ish points, but that's nitpicking. He's definitely not what he used to be but he's an above average defensive defenseman who is well worth his cap hit, and I'd still do that trade every day of the week.
I thought he'd be better tbh. He's not awful by any stretch, but he wasn't worth getting all hyped up for. He's like Rivet before he couldn't skate anymore.
I think Rivet and Regehr are different levels. Regehr is a higher-caliber player than Rivet ever was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey18
not seeing it. For 4 million per year? Not seeing the leadership at all. FOr that kind of money you would expect someone who could do more. He isn't as good as he was. The money would have been better spent elsewhere.
A $4 million defense man is not an "elite" defense man. It gets you a solid one who can play a particular role well; I think he has proven his worth.
Regehr is a more positionally sound player. Almost all of the time, he's where is needs to be, when he needs to be there. That's 75% of playing defense. He reads plays well, doesn't take a lot of chances. Tough and physical along the walls, but not so much so that he puts himself out of the play. Doesn't turn the puck over much at all. Doesn't have the greatest first pass to start the rush, fairly average there. Not the greatest foot speed, but makes up for it with quicker reads and reactions. Great sense of timing on the pinch.
Morissonn has plenty of positional lapses. Late reading plays, which leads to late reactions, which gets him behind the 8 ball when it comes to quicker players. Not overly strong on the puck, prone to forcing plays and creating turnovers. Better footspeed which can help recover from mistakes. Will often pinch late or at the wrong time. Can be physical, but will often put himself out of position going for hits.
I don't disagree with any of this. I didn't when the trade happened and I don't today. The comparison to Morrisonn isn't that I think Morrisonn is better than Regehr over the course of his career — it's that the results with Regehr aren't any better than the guy he replaced. At some point there's gotta be results. Positional play, physical at the right times — is it keeping pucks out of the net? The answer is no. Shorthanded, his goals against per minute are worse than Morrisonn, they're worse than Leo and Myers who led the Sabres in that stat last year. That's not because Tyler Ennis rolled his ankle, or because Derek Roy goes out to Chippewa.
Above all this is my issue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshot85
A $4 million defense man is not an "elite" defense man. It gets you a solid one who can play a particular role well; I think he has proven his worth.
A $4 million defenseman isn't elite, but it should be a guy who can play consistently in the top two pairings, not a PK specialist who has to be kept off the ice at even strength because
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo
he's slow and his passing is terrible.
Honestly, the standard for Regehr seems to be very low. Just hit some guys and stay in your lane and we'll blame everyone else for the poor results of the team. To me, the team invested enough assets and time in acquiring him that they obviously expected a difference-maker. He hasn't been that.
Honestly, the standard for Regehr seems to be very low. Just hit some guys and stay in your lane and we'll blame everyone else for the poor results of the team. To me, the team invested enough assets and time in acquiring him that they obviously expected a difference-maker. He hasn't been that.
Butler, Byron, salary cap space, real dollars burying Kotalik and Morrisonn (granted, that may not matter much to Pegula).
I wouldn't care that the guy can't skate or make a pass if the team was better. He. Did. Not. Make. The. Team. Better. That's all I care about for the purposes of this discussion. They spent days settling on a trade, took on salary, flew up and begged him to waive his NTC. He started out on the top pairing. You think they expected -15?
I'm not even going to bother continuing to debate this.
Robin Regehr is a better player than Shaone Morrisonn. Period. End of story. This team is better with Regehr playing than it is with Morrisonn playing. Period. End of story.
Last edited by TP: 03-02-2012 at 09:23 AM.
Reason: mod
Plus/minus cannot be looked at by itself and used to evaluate a player.
I mean, MAG was +10 when he left. Are you seriously going to try to make the argument that he's better than Dan Boyle (+9), Kimmo Timonen (+8), Dennis Seidenberg (+8), Luke Schenn (+5), Drew Doughty (E), Niklas Kronwall (E), Keith Ballard (E), Tyler Myers (-1), P.K. Subban (-2), Toni Lydman (-3), Christian Ehrhoff (-4), Dion Phaneuf (-8), Henrik Tallinder (-11), Ed Jovanovski (-12), etc,etc.....
Plus/minus cannot be looked at by itself and used to evaluate a player.
I mean, MAG was +10 when he left. Are you seriously going to try to make the argument that he's better than Dan Boyle (+9), Kimmo Timonen (+8), Dennis Seidenberg (+8), Luke Schenn (+5), Drew Doughty (E), Niklas Kronwall (E), Keith Ballard (E), Tyler Myers (-1), P.K. Subban (-2), Toni Lydman (-3), Christian Ehrhoff (-4), Dion Phaneuf (-8), Henrik Tallinder (-11), Ed Jovanovski (-12), etc,etc.....
Well, I do think MAG is better than Tallinder. Talk about dodging a bullet there.
I'm not looking at just +/-. Though his is exceptionally bad and I think it's worth at least a consideration. His passing is very poor and he is slow. I know he wasn't brought here for offense but part of defense is getting the puck out of the zone and his lack of footspeed and poor passing has often led to the Sabres being hemmed in.
I was at the Stars-Sabres game last month in Buffalo. There was a sequence where Regehr was by the hash marks in the Buffalo end. The puck came around the wall. It took him forever to get to it — then as he tried to get it to a streaking Boyes, he shoveled it six feet into his skates, still behind the line. Dallas recovered and got another scoring chance. Regehr was not credited with a giveaway.
That may sound nitpicky but it is an example of the kind of problems he's had this year. I know that other defensemen on this team have made poor plays, but we are talking about a guy who is paid a premium to perform a specific role at a very high level. The expectations should be higher than "well, Leopold has bad games too." Or, in your example, Gragnani — he may be the softest defenseman in the league, but he was out there for 30 even-strength goals for in his limited time here. That was his role, and even though we all knew that, we (rightly) got sick of his pathetic defensive play and wanted him shipped out.
Then, I heard about this guy's toughness and leadership, and the Sabres have appeared rudderless the whole year. It's about more than just hit numbers. He didn't seem to have much of an effect if any on the attitude of the team.
I understand that Sabres fans don't have high opinions of Butler, Byron, Morrisonn and therefore it seems ridiculous that I'm comparing Regehr to those assets. My position is that the team was at a certain level with those assets in place, and we should expect that they're being spun into something that makes the team better.
The Sabres have been poor defensively, have lacked leadership and toughness, and are worse off than they were last year at this time. Regehr was supposed to help solve those problems. Could we have targeted a better player? And I'm not saying that we were going to be able to trade Butler and Byron for Drew Doughty. I don't have the time right now to go back to last year and think who might have been available, what those teams were looking for, and what we could've offered.
A $4 million defenseman isn't elite, but it should be a guy who can play consistently in the top two pairings, not a PK specialist who has to be kept off the ice at even strength because
Honestly, the standard for Regehr seems to be very low. Just hit some guys and stay in your lane and we'll blame everyone else for the poor results of the team. To me, the team invested enough assets and time in acquiring him that they obviously expected a difference-maker. He hasn't been that.
I think Regehr has been their most solid, consistent defenseman this year--with a few poor games thrown in, like anyone else. I guess it depends what your idea of being a difference maker is; I wasn't expecting a +/- difference- maker, a stat I think is highly overrated when it comes for stay-at-home defensemen.
Talk about dodging a bullet there. 
