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Cody's controversial departure thread

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:24 PM
  #1
Kagee*
 
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Cody's controversial departure thread

I think I can speak for the majority about us getting tired of seeing Cody's agent said this, Cody demanded that, in a thread about Kassian the player, so here is a thread for all the Hodgson - behind the scenes talk.

A pretty good quote on what's going on so far...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
There are two issues here -

Winter having numerous discussions about his client with Gillis and Gilman and as has been reported two "summit" meetings about where Hodgson fit in - one took place when Meehan was agent. Ongoing discussions while not unheard of are not the norm but two summit meetings???? That is unusual.

Then you have the meeting between AV and Hodgson (a rookie) over ice time and his role a couple of weeks ago. That is very rare and I am unsure that I have ever heard of such a thing.

Based on this GMMG and his management team may well have determined that Hodgson was simply too high maintenance and as he was surplus asset and a highly desirable asset in Zack Kassian with a unique skill set missing on the Canucks was available, why would you not pull the trigger on that deal? As Gillis said it was not your usual trade deadline deal.

Per Iain MacIntyre of the Sun:
Winter, who refused by email an interview request and said he no longer talks to reporters, tweeted Wednesday: “For the record, Cody Hodgson did not ask for the trade. Like others, he had many meetings with his coaches on his role. Then trade. That's it.”

But it wasn't it, as Winter also said: “Team had different goals than Cody,” which means Hodgson had different goals than the team. In response to a fan's question, Winter admitted: “Now we did ask for more ice time.”

Hodgson, who also denies he asked for Monday's trade that saw Canuck general manager Mike Gillis swap skill for brawn by sending Hodgson to the Buffalo Sabres for Zack Kassian, met with Canuck coach Alain Vigneault on Saturday.

At least twice – and with two different agents – Canuck management held summit meetings with Hodgson and his representative to air grievances and reassure the centre that he was valued and had a future with the National Hockey League team.
http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...#ixzz1ntPJtq8g

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #2
pitseleh
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Moving this here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
First off, not all players converts chances at the same ratio. If it was so, then you could just throw anybody out there on the shootout. Its funny how hockey emphasizes shots or opportunities (at bats) whereas baseball focuses on percentages (hockey says they will fall to the norm).
The true talent range for 99% of NHL players is an on ice SH% between 8% and 9%. Mario Lemieux, one of the greatest playmakers ever, raised his linemate's SH% by ~1%.

No one says that there isn't a talent element to SH%. But SH% talent is less than 10% of scoring while shot rates are more than 50%. That's why there's a huge emphasis on shot rate.

The reason baseball doesn't focus on the ABs is that ABs are not controlled by the player. If a player controlled the number of ABs they had, then ABs would clearly be an important factor, and likely a more important factor than percentages.

Quote:
Second zone starts are not in a vacuum. Starting in the offensive zone is nice but you also get to face the other team's better defensive players. Just like if you start in the defensive zone, you face the other team's better offensive players but at the same time, their weaker defensive players. Sedins are a good example - they have way more offensive zone starts nowadays but it hasn't seemed to correlate to more 5 on 5 scoring - in fact their 5 on 5 scoring is way down. Obviously there are other more important factors.
You're assuming all other things are equal.

Hodgson has played against soft competition. The other team's 'better' defensive players have been killing Hodgson in terms of scoring chances.

Quote:
Two factors I've identified that shed a positive light on Hodgson offensively (and correlate from actually watching him play) are first, his % of being on the scoreboard when on the ice for a GF is as high as Henrik's and much higher than Kesler - the higher this %, the more important a player is to his line's scoring the way I figure. Closest to 90% in the league are Malkin, Elias and Eberle.
It's never been shown to be a sustainable attribute. Players vary in this measure tremendously season to season.

Quote:
Last but not least, statistics are maps, they are NOT the actual territory. To properly evaluate a player, you need to watch the games. IMO, Hodgson created more scoring chances per TOI than any other Canuck except the Sedins.
It's not scoring chance rate that matters, it's scoring chance differential. And the scoring chance numbers at Canucks Army show Hodgson was just as bad in that regard. Since the beginning of February, Hodgson's chance differential is 38-50, a 43% chance differential. That's exactly the same as his Fenwick ratio over the same span. That's while starting in the offensive zone 50% more than in the defensive zone.

You're assuming I don't watch the games. I do. I get the same impression from watching the games as the stats give me, and I'm not the only one. Posters like orcatown and MS, whose opinion on hockey players I very much respect, have made similar comments over the past several months.

Quote:
With more experience and a better training regime, he'll be a star in this league though Kassian might turn out to be one as well. Time will tell.
I don't disagree with that point. I take issue with peoples' characterization of his play right now.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:31 PM
  #3
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Why the focus on Hodgson only over the last month or two though? Are his full season numbers not roughly in line with what would be expected from his minutes?

He was having trouble controlling the play over the last while, but he was hardly alone. This was a team that had a run where they were outshot in 17 of 23 games from late December to mid February.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:33 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I agree with what you guys have said here. Personally I think Cody's dad started wanting out after the whole 'misdiagnosed back injury' fiasco and AV's comments, and that switching agents to Winter was a part of that.

However I feel that Cody himself wanted to stay and was willing to let bygones be bygones. To me he seemed happy on this team and genuinely liked it here in this city. He seemed willing to move on from the incident but apparently his father and agent - aka "the Hodgson camp" - just didn't want to let it go. I get the feeling he was just a kid who was caught up in a conflict that was out of his control - torn between loyalty to his family's wishes and the fact he had grown to like it in Vancouver and personally wanted to stay.

The fact that he seemed so distraught and even saddened in his post-trade interview with TSN tells me he genuinely did not want to be moved out. Anyone have that interview he did with Sportsnet btw? I want to watch it again but the video's not working on their site.

The way Winter is acting on Twitter isn't helping his client's reputation either. Ultimately it seems his family and agent proved to be too much of an influence on his career thus far, going behind his back and trying to get him out of Vancouver, and probably played a part in driving him out of town. All this has just been so unfortunate... I don't know if I can ever forgive them for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Let's be clear, nobody went behind Hodgson's back. They might've influenced him, but he went to AV himself and talked to him about getting more ice-time. I seriously doubt his agent would still be employed if he actually went behind Cody's back.
Despite him going to the coach and discussing his ice time I really don't feel that he wanted out. If what that tweet by @scurrie90 is true, then Cody's dad has a lot more influence in which agent Cody hires and fires than you're giving him credit for.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:38 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Despite him going to the coach and discussing his ice time I really don't feel that he wanted out. If what that tweet by @scurrie90 is true, then Cody's dad has a lot more influence in which agent Cody hires and fires than you're giving him credit for.
Then that is on Cody Hodgson who is an adult - he is 22 years old.

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03-01-2012, 03:40 PM
  #6
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Cody punched me in the groin before he left.

That jerk!

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:42 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Why the focus on Hodgson only over the last month or two though?
It shows the downward trend in his play.

Quote:
Are his full season numbers not roughly in line with what would be expected from his minutes?
They aren't good either. On a good team, coming out roughly equal in Corsi while playing the softest minutes on the team amounts to poor results. He was better earlier in the season, but that's cancelled out by what he's done recently, and on the whole his underlying numbers have not been good.

Quote:
He was having trouble controlling the play over the last while, but he was hardly alone. This was a team that had a run where they were outshot in 17 of 23 games from late December to mid February.
Over that span though, only Hodgson's and Malhotra's lines were outshot at even strength. Malhotra's line was playing really tough minutes, while Hodgson's line was playing soft minutes. All of Hodgson's linemates over that span played better without him than with him.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #8
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This meeting...if it happened, could have been about anything. I'm sure ice time could have been part of the discussion, but there are countless other things that the meeting could have entailed. Concerns about his defensive play, his recent lack of offense, his home life, his health, AV asking him to pick up his laundry. Countless things.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo View Post
Cody punched me in the groin before he left.

That jerk!
Was this before or after he pushed the old woman into traffic and burned down the orphanage?

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:45 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lard_lad View Post
was this before or after he pushed the old woman into traffic and burned down the orphanage?
during!

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:45 PM
  #11
Tim Calhoun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Then that is on Cody Hodgson who is an adult - he is 22 years old.
I agree with this. Whether or not Hodgson was receiving bad advice from his agent or his family is up for debate, but ultimately he is the one in control of his hockey career and he has the final say in this. If he is unhappy with how things turned out, he should use this experience as a valuable lesson for the future.

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03-01-2012, 03:47 PM
  #12
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Thank god for this thread.

I dont wanna hear another word about hodgson in the kassien thread

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Thank god for this thread.

I dont wanna hear another word about hodgson in the kassien thread
That seems unlikely - they are Yin and Yang.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:50 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Forget what may or may not have been discussed. Somebody isn't telling the truth. One side said there was a meeting and the other side (AV) said there wasn't.
This is what I'd like to find out more about.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:53 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
It shows the downward trend in his play.

They aren't good either. On a good team, coming out roughly equal in Corsi while playing the softest minutes on the team amounts to poor results. He was better earlier in the season, but that's cancelled out by what he's done recently, and on the whole his underlying numbers have not been good.

Over that span though, only Hodgson's and Malhotra's lines were outshot at even strength. Malhotra's line was playing really tough minutes, while Hodgson's line was playing soft minutes. All of Hodgson's linemates over that span played better without him than with him.
The issue I have is that the line's purpose might be something different than scoring goals.

This would seem to be true in Hodgson's case, as in a lot of situations he would focus on being back or cautious, rather than going all out to score goals. And in situations where he was not defensively responsible, he would get benched. A situation like that will affect a player's psyche and overall play, in which case I don't think the stats show the whole picture.

(Additionally, his linemates playing better with Kesler, for example, might have to do with the job of the 2nd line to provide more offense, regardless of their starting position on the ice).

I don't disagree that Hodgson was not a good fit for that 3rd line role, as Vigneault envisions it, but I do believe he might have fit better as a 2nd liner with Kesler on his wing -- something that should have at least been tried out considering we had Lapierre and Malhotra to cover the bottom-6 C positions.

I'm also biased because I prefer 3 scoring lines to 2, even though I do see the positives in having Kesler freed up for more offensive duties with a set checking line.

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03-01-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
The meeting...entailed...AV asking him to pick up his laundry...
If this is true, it's absolutely scandalous. Another great young player driven out of town by French Coach's absurd demands.

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03-01-2012, 03:54 PM
  #17
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By the time Saturday rolls around, Cody will be our biggest villain.

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03-01-2012, 03:56 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
If this is true, it's absolutely scandalous. Another great young player driven out of town by French Coach's absurd demands.
Picking up AV's dirty skivvies after practice can't be a task for the faint of heart.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:58 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
This meeting...if it happened, could have been about anything. I'm sure ice time could have been part of the discussion, but there are countless other things that the meeting could have entailed. Concerns about his defensive play, his recent lack of offense, his home life, his health, AV asking him to pick up his laundry. Countless things.
Except that we know 100% for sure that icetime was part of the discussion. So yes it could have been about anything AND his icetime.

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03-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
I agree with this. Whether or not Hodgson was receiving bad advice from his agent or his family is up for debate, but ultimately he is the one in control of his hockey career and he has the final say in this. If he is unhappy with how things turned out, he should use this experience as a valuable lesson for the future.
First rule of agency - as principal you are responsible for the actions of your agent.

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:03 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yapperface View Post
By the time Saturday rolls around, Cody will be our biggest villain.
I wonder who's going to be more disliked at that point (knowing about all of this news regarding Hodgson's agents and complaints), Hodgson or Bure?

That would also be pretty cool to have Kassian really give it to Hodgson. Nothing close to suspension-worthy, but maybe just really shut him down.

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:04 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
Except that we know 100% for sure that icetime was part of the discussion. So yes it could have been about anything AND his icetime.
AV said the meeting never took place, so we know 100% for sure that someone is lying and we know nothing about what actually took place in it if it actually did happen. It's all speculation, the only people who know if a meeting actually took place are the people who were there, or not there.

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:05 PM
  #23
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Who cares...he's gone...move on.

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Old
03-01-2012, 04:08 PM
  #24
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Quote:
@BotchonCanucks: Vigneault said he didn't think his meeting happened Saturday, he didn't say it did not happen
I dont think AV is denying that there ever was a meeting, but that he doesn't remember which day it was.

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03-01-2012, 04:12 PM
  #25
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Hodgson and Kassian are going to be forever linked, regardless of how their careers pan out.

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