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Old
03-01-2012, 07:00 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by yapperface View Post
By the time Saturday rolls around, Cody will be our biggest villain.
Quite.




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03-01-2012, 07:01 PM
  #102
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NBC Sports has picked up the story.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...issue-further/

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03-01-2012, 07:05 PM
  #103
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I don't think Cody needs to be any sort of villain. I wish the kid luck and hope he has a fine career. I think the only thing he was guilty of was naivety.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dirkph View Post
There's no doubt there's a peculiar stench about the trade.

This might be a completely different situation I'm sure, but look no further than the Canucks' treatment/handling of other current top-end prospects (Cory Schneider, Jordan Schroeder, Chris Tanev). To me, it looks tremendously out of character of my MG to trade a budding top-end prospect for another top-end prospect who hasn't shown anything at all (yet). And no, I don't count Grabner (who wasn't drafted by Gillis, was done in the off-season, and traded for a potential top 4 d-man in Ballard) or Patrick White.

The trade doesn't make any sense, to be honest. If you wanted to win *this year*, why would you trade a talent that is good right now vs. a talent that, maybe, will be good?

I can understand if this was done in the off-season, but it looks like Gillis knew that this sort of trade was coming, and if you accept that it is coming, then the sooner you do it, the better. I'm not a conspiracy-type person, but from what the agent/Gillis/AV are saying, something stinks.
Pahlsson replaces Hodgson right now and the Canucks get back to their shut down third line plan.

Kassian is a good for now and hopefully great asset down the road bringing a unique skillset plus in Gragnani the Canucks get another puck moving Dman that they hope to integrate into their system of puck moving Dmen and on the PP.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Drunken Crunker View Post
NBC Sports has picked up the story.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...issue-further/
Those are the Kurtenbloggers so they have a Vancouver connection.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #106
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Those are the Kurtenbloggers so they have a Vancouver connection.
Ahh cheers! Thanks Wetcoaster.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:09 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
Last year of OHL.

Kassian 26g 51a 77. +10
CH 43g 49A 92. +41

The ONLY thing kassian has over CH is size. Cody has been a leader at every level of competition. He has been touted as a natural leader and great locker room guy for years.

One is the 4th leading scorer in the NHL for his team and is in the calder race.
He spends his summer in the hardest offseasn camp to get his game complete at the NHL level.

ill bet you money if you offer kassian and a second for coho back buffalo hangs up laughing. We got robbed, period.

How often do you hear nhl gms venting frustration a player was unavailable then got traded.

Im a die hard canuck fan but this has 100 % cost MG a supporter.
Really don't know how you can say the Canucks were robbed when trading two young prospects this early in their careers. Cody played well for the Canucks and despite limitations I see in his game, still has excellent potential to be a solid player. The way you are describing this situation it makes it sound like Cody is the next Joe Sakic and Kassian is a bust.

Size is the only thing he has over Coho? What about speed? Grit? Being able to stick up from his teammates? Isn't somebody over generalizing here? Give the kid some time. He has a tonne of tools in his tool shed.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:10 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Pahlsson replaces Hodgson right now and the Canucks get back to their shut down third line plan.

Kassian is a good for now and hopefully great asset down the road bringing a unique skillset plus in Gragnani the Canucks get another puck moving Dman that they hope to integrate into their system of puck moving Dmen and on the PP.
Yes. I mean, it's debatable whether we're a better team now, but again even with Pahlsson who's 3-4 years off his best years is a risk in itself. I mean, Cody is good... right now. He was also looking like he was going to pan out to be an all-around great Canadian player, complete with work ethic, two-play play, leadership, etc. etc.

I just think that the trade has just a little too much risk involved.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Dirkph View Post
Yes. I mean, it's debatable whether we're a better team now, but again even with Pahlsson who's 3-4 years off his best years is a risk in itself. I mean, Cody is good... right now. He was also looking like he was going to pan out to be an all-around great Canadian player, complete with work ethic, two-play play, leadership, etc. etc.

I just think that the trade has just a little too much risk involved.
Pahlsson is a better fit to play centre on a shut down third line even if he is not the 2007 Pahlsson. Hodgson just does not have the defensive chops. This should free up Kesler for more offence like last season.

The risk was trying to cover off Hodgson's defensive deficiencies into the play-offs. He was badly exposed in the Wings game.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:19 PM
  #110
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I don't disagree that Hodgson was not a good fit for that 3rd line role, as Vigneault envisions it, but I do believe he might have fit better as a 2nd liner with Kesler on his wing -- something that should have at least been tried out considering we had Lapierre and Malhotra to cover the bottom-6 C positions.
This, to me, is the most puzzling thing about the whole story. I don't pretend to be able to evaluate Kassian vs Hodgson and say who will get the better of the trade. But AV was willing to try Bitz with the Sedins, moving a proven Alex Burrows off that line. He was willing to split up the Sedins to try to get them and the team going. Why was he never willing to try Hodgson at centre with Kesler on the wing? Is it something Kesler wouldn't have accepted, even for a game or two? If so, AV's problem was never with Hodgson; it's with Kesler. If AV didn't think Hodgson had what it took defensively to hold down the third line, why not see whether he'd blossom with Kesler on his wing, before deciding to move him out? (One of the answers is that it's insane to move Kesler, a Selke trophy winner, away from centre. If that's so then surely it's equally insane to split up the Sedins or try Byron Bitz on the first line.)

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #111
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How many times does it have to be said? Juniour stats=useless. Coho was on a stacked Battalion team and racking up points every night with Matt Duchene.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:21 PM
  #112
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Oh my, when will this drama end? CoHo's now a Sabre and Kassian's a Canuck, move on.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ugghhh View Post
The issue I have is that the line's purpose might be something different than scoring goals.

This would seem to be true in Hodgson's case, as in a lot of situations he would focus on being back or cautious, rather than going all out to score goals. And in situations where he was not defensively responsible, he would get benched. A situation like that will affect a player's psyche and overall play, in which case I don't think the stats show the whole picture.

(Additionally, his linemates playing better with Kesler, for example, might have to do with the job of the 2nd line to provide more offense, regardless of their starting position on the ice).

I don't disagree that Hodgson was not a good fit for that 3rd line role, as Vigneault envisions it, but I do believe he might have fit better as a 2nd liner with Kesler on his wing -- something that should have at least been tried out considering we had Lapierre and Malhotra to cover the bottom-6 C positions.

I'm also biased because I prefer 3 scoring lines to 2, even though I do see the positives in having Kesler freed up for more offensive duties with a set checking line.
You move an elite Selke winning centre to make room for a rookie with defensive issues???

Hodgson was a surplus asset and was unable to pick up his defensive game. Replace him with a vet that has that skillset and use Hodgson to get an asset in Kassian with unique abilities missing on the team.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:30 PM
  #114
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The answers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
70GP 30G 38A 68Pts (under a point per game btw)-Milan Lucic
54GP 32G 40A 72Pts-Rick Nash
54GP 33G 35A 68Pts-Nathan Horton
68GP 41G 44A 85Pts-Brendan Morrow
62GP 27G 55A 82Pts-Scott Hartnell
61GP 36G 46A 82Pts-Chris Stewart
51GP 29G 25A 54Pts-Ryan Getzlaf
38GP 13G 29A 42Pts (WCHA)-David Backes
43GP 18G 30A 48 Pts-Ryane Clowe

How are Kassian's stats anything different.
Pretty good company I would say.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
The answers:



Pretty good company I would say.
Nash, Horton, and Hartnell played their last junior season in their draft year as 18 year olds. Kassian played until he was 20.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #116
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"WE" asked for more ice time?

WTF.

Spoiled little ****, wish him all the best, but not too sad that kind of attitude is out of the picture.

 
Old
03-01-2012, 07:41 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
Nash, Horton, and Hartnell played their last junior season in their draft year as 18 year olds. Kassian played until he was 20.
I'm well aware of that. The point really doesn't change that much. Kassian's stats in junior were just fine.

Or hey if you don't like I used that year take his stats from two years prior when he started the year at 17 years of age (i.e. his draft year):

61GP 24G 39A 63Pts

They still match up pretty darn good. Certainly well enough you can't simply use junior stats to say he won't amount to anything or even amount to something less than Hodgson.

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03-01-2012, 07:41 PM
  #118
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Please, spice trader, for your own health, if you can't get over this trade, I think you need to become a Sabres fan. It's obvious, you have this man crush on Cody and no longer can support the idiots that run the Canucks...... So....bye bye, oh and take that luongownage guy with you, don't let the door hit you on the way out
I mean, really... It's done, get over it, move, for everybody's sake. You are beating a dead horse!! No matter how much you wail about it, it's not going to change. You're making my damn eyes bleed with your whining!

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:43 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
Nash, Horton, and Hartnell played their last junior season in their draft year as 18 year olds. Kassian played until he was 20.
Kassian's stats in his draft year:

61GP 24G 39A 63Pts.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:50 PM
  #120
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Why would i have to leave? This is a bone headed trade. we traded a producing top prospect for a prospect that has produced less in every level of hockey.

I will never be happy with this trade. i can move past it but i dont have to like it.

Sure kassian won silver at the WJC playing 3rd line grinder minutes...

Hodgson happened to win gold leading the tourny in points and being the top shut down center while he did it. Great deal...

I stand by my statement this trade will haunt MG forever. Only way it doesnt is if he gets a cup.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:51 PM
  #121
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Why would i have to leave? This is a bone headed trade. we traded a producing top prospect for a prospect that has produced less in every level of hockey.

I will never be happy with this trade. i can move past it but i dont have to like it.

Sure kassian won silver at the WJC playing 3rd line grinder minutes...

Hodgson happened to win gold leading the tourny in points and being the top shut down center while he did it. Great deal...

I stand by my statement this trade will haunt MG forever. Only way it doesnt is if he gets a cup.
You are entitled to your opinion - others are entitled to point out your opinion is utterly uninformed.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #122
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we traded a producing top prospect for a prospect that has produced less in every level of hockey.
No he hasn't. He has produced more in his 20/21 year old NHL season than Cody did in his 20/21 year old season. He produced significantly more at 20/21 in the AHL than Cody produced at 20/21 in the AHL.

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03-01-2012, 07:54 PM
  #123
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No he hasn't. He has produced more in his 20/21 year old NHL season than Cody did in his 20/21 year old season. He produced significantly more at 20/21 in the AHL than Cody produced at 20/21 in the AHL.
Hey no fair. You are arguing facts and stats.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:58 PM
  #124
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Cody's ELC Contract for 2011/2012 has a base of $787,500 and total of $850,000 additional performance bonuses.
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=732

The $850k performance bonus are Schedule A and cannot exceed $212,500 per individual bonus and $850k in aggregate. Basically broken down by icetime, goals, assists, points, ppg, all-star selection, etc and negotiated per individual contract. (not published).

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-...racts-work.php

The Schedule B bonuses are the NHL award bonuses for example:
Calder Bonus - 1st -$212,500 // 2nd - $150,000 // 3rd - $100,000

Cody could earn $1,850,000 by maxing Schedule A bonuses and winning the Calder (possible with RNH injuries and repeating January production in March, April).

Cody is currently sitting at 16 goals / 17 assists / 33 points. He had a rookie of the month with 6 goals, 4 assists in January. A couple more months of repeating January production with even higher icetime it is conceivable Cody could max out his ELC and win or place very high in the Calder race.

With the financial incentives, it makes sense that the Cody camp be pressuring for more ice time and possibly pushing the Canucks to reconfigure their lineup to take advantage of Cody's offensive prowess. (i.e. have the Selke winning Kesler play on Cody's wing argument).

Even bigger financial incentives come in by using Cody's ELC production in his first RFA contract negotiations once his ELC contract expires after the 2012/2013 season.

Politicians are experts in using and/or hiring media to spread their message when regular channels are not working. Sports journalists are not paid overly well and would be an easy hire given the amount of money is at stake. I wonder if this might explain TG's obsession with all things Cody for the past few years and TG's despondency in the aftermath of the trade.

Meanwhile the Canucks have more important priorities of being perennial cup contenders and looking after the needs of their other contracted players than being distracted with the Hodgson camp sideshow.

Cody is a Sabre now and will have more opportunities and icetime to have higher stats. The Cody camp should be pleased he is away from the Canuck organization even though it cost him a cup run for this year.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:58 PM
  #125
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You move an elite Selke winning centre to make room for a rookie with defensive issues???

Hodgson was a surplus asset and was unable to pick up his defensive game. Replace him with a vet that has that skillset and use Hodgson to get an asset in Kassian with unique abilities missing on the team.
When the team wasn't going well, AV separated the Sedins, two guys who had won scoring titles playing with each other. He took Burrows, a proven thirty goal scorer with the Sedins, off the line and replaced him with Bitz, a big body who reportedly was having troubles keeping up in the AHL and is now back in the A. Why wouldn't he try Hodgson with Kesler on the wing? Hodgson has defensive issues, which is true of lots of offensive centres. So try him as an offensive centre with an elite scoring winger.

Note, I am not saying the trade was a bad one. I'm saying it's bizarre the organization never wanted to get a look at Hodgson in the role that probably suits him best.

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