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So we are going to be drafting a potential franchise player this summer (Tank Talk)

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02-29-2012, 12:11 PM
  #1
Frankenheimer
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So we are going to be drafting a potential franchise player this summer (Tank Talk)

Obviously, we've reached the point where playoffs are out of the question and strategy needs to be adjusted accordingly. The best strategy is one that produces the highest draft position possible.

However, this means losing, and losing within the rules of the game. I'm guessing that even if losing is to the teams greatest advantage, that this cannot be communicated to the players, nor can it be effectively implemented without giving the strategy away to outside observers. I'm further guessing that it's against the rules to intentionally lose. So my question is:

1) What are the official rules regarding tanking? What are the penalties involved if caught?

2) What passive tactics can be employed? Can the GM ice a bad team? If so, what's the worst team we can possibly ice with the end game of losing? Can Price be benched for extended periods of time? What about our star players?

3) What instructions, if any, can be communicated to the players so that everyone is on the same page? At some point do the players "just know" that the team benefits in the long term from short term losses? Or do personal gains (getting points for a better future contract) outweigh team gains (getting an awesome draft pick)?

I realize there's that whole "being a professional" thing that impedes players from tanking, but once losing becomes a net gain how do managers, coaches and players avoid the inevitable pull toward doing what's best for the team?

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02-29-2012, 12:17 PM
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Valois
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I think karmically, the punishment for throwing a season is drafting Daigle

But yes, I've wondered this myself, just how intentional it is when teams draft high.

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02-29-2012, 12:17 PM
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Myron Gaines*
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Ice the worst possible line-up, not taking time-outs in critical situations,Don't talk to the players when the other teams takes a time-out,play the back up goaltender more often, Don't show much emotion in the locker room or on the bench.

This is tanking, Cunney is doing it right so far.

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02-29-2012, 12:18 PM
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ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valois View Post
I think karmically, the punishment for throwing a season is drafting Daigle

But yes, I've wondered this myself, how exactly teams go about losing.
one word : Cunneyworth

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:26 PM
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Erik Estrada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post

1) What are the official rules regarding tanking? What are the penalties involved if caught?

2) What passive tactics can be employed? Can the GM ice a bad team? If so, what's the worst team we can possibly ice with the end game of losing? Can Price be benched for extended periods of time? What about our star players?

3) What instructions, if any, can be communicated to the players so that everyone is on the same page? At some point do the players "just know" that the team benefits in the long term from short term losses? Or do personal gains (getting points for a better future contract) outweigh team gains (getting an awesome draft pick)?

?
An example of alleged (deliberate) tanking, was the Nordiques to get Lindros... The NHL have adjusted and the lottery helps prevent egregious tanking.

You could tweak the lineup to make it worse but you can't tell players to lose. They're competitors they'll fight till the end.

This Habs lineup/coaching staff is a mess right now. There's no (deliberate) tanking needed. It's a sinking ship already. This team is not going to comeback to 10th. There's too many holes... Just enjoy the spectacle to a lottery pick.

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02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
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FlyingKostitsyn
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Give generous ice time to the likes of Kaberle, Campoli, Darche, Gomez and some more ice time to Darche while you're at it.

Bench Eller. Trade Kostitsyn. Claim Staubitz. Have Plekanec play with scrubs and use only one scoring line.

Play Budaj some more and we're set.

Habs are doing fine I think. We should be proud

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
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Rscorpio
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play Gomez and Crapoli more

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:30 PM
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You're all fake fans

Go Habs Go I still believe in the playoffs
















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02-29-2012, 12:30 PM
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FlyingKostitsyn
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We should convert Crampoli into a winger JUST so he can be on a line with Gomez.

We could even convert Gomez into a defensemen for the hilarity factor.

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02-29-2012, 12:35 PM
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Mathradio
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
We should convert Crampoli into a winger JUST so he can be on a line with Gomez.

We could even convert Gomez into a defensemen for the hilarity factor.
Staubitz-White-Crampoli...

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:37 PM
  #11
Habs 4 Life
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
We should convert Crampoli into a winger JUST so he can be on a line with Gomez.

We could even convert Gomez into a defensemen for the hilarity factor.
No way, leave Campoli at D trust me we need him there. Anyone who makes Pouliot look like an all star player is a player you want playing defence for your team while trying to tank

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:41 PM
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WestIslander
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I don't know why we are talking about this now, the playoffs were pretty much out of the question before the All Star Break and the fact that we were one of the worst teams in October, that did not help either.

I am really looking forward to the draft lottery on TSN in April! Very excited to land a franchise player, possibly the next Guy Lafleur.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:45 PM
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Goldthorpe
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You can't tell players to lose. It would be akin to trying to fix a game. And it would be... so much bad vibe. Hockey player are trained and selected for their competitive spirit, it's not a on/off switch.

You can thought sell away vets and give their icetime to rookies. Officially, it's in order to evaluate them, but it also has the "benefit" of making your team worst.

You can also give quality icetime to bad players. Officially, you have an expensive vet who you could hope to move if only he could get it going, so you want to give him ton of PP time, even if that young guy who is signed for nothing and will be part of your team for years could make better use of it.

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Old
02-29-2012, 01:40 PM
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llamateizer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
You're all fake fans

Go Habs Go I still believe in the playoffs















I believed you for a second!


Players have no reason to play bad.
Play bad = losing a spot.

youngs want to leave a good impression to the organisation

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02-29-2012, 01:50 PM
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Calling up henry?

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02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
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Renholder
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So we are going to be drafting a potential franchise player this summer

I don't post threads often
but as a Habs fan for 20 years, this has never been something I've ever experienced.
I'm obviously dissapointed at the season and it pains me every loss my favorite team succumbs to...

But isn't it exciting to think that we may be drafting one of Grigorenko, forsberg, galchenyuk? Who knows, if we get lucky at the draw, maybe even Yakupov.

I don't see any conceivable scenario , beside going for a 10 game win streak, that would elevate us beyond the top 5 picks of the draft.

How do you feel about this? What kind of decision will the franchise make towards drafting an elite talent? Beside price, we haven't legitemately deserved a player this high in the draft in decades.

How do you think the organization will react? What's the philosophy of the team in your opinoin? Any other thoughts?

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:08 PM
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habs03
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Thank you PG

Had we kept Martin he probably would be sitting in 8th right now. This organization owe's Randy Cunneyworth a lot for the work he has done.

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02-29-2012, 02:10 PM
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Tuggy
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I just hope we don't end up with a Daigle, Stefan or Brendl.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:15 PM
  #19
Kriss E
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Franchise player is big. Yakupov might be one, but I'm not sure Grigorenko is. Outside those two anyways, I don't think there's one that's perceived to have this potential.

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02-29-2012, 02:15 PM
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habs03
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Oh man, I'm just praying that we win the draft loto.

I say we riot if we do

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:16 PM
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WeThreeKings
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HOLD ON.

There's a lot of tanking to be done.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
  #22
Renholder
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You are right WeThreeKing, we're playing the nHL equivalent of the hula Hoop game

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #23
hackeyisneat
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markov is still going to be back before the end of the season, which could put us out of the top 5

i want him to play and play well, but if we're gonna be bad, let's get a nice pick

queue whining about tradition

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:35 PM
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CGG
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We're currently in the # 3 spot. Cam Barker was selected 3rd overall. There's no guarantee we get a franchise player.

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:38 PM
  #25
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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All these threads are like clutter. Same topics: arm-chair GM threads or draft topics.

Hey Renholder, follow the 2012 Draft thread.

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