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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Does the IIHF need to fix their ranking system?

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Old
04-26-2012, 02:38 PM
  #1
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Does the IIHF need to fix their ranking system?

I realize that the World Hockey Championships happen every year and the Winter Olympics are every 4 years, so the IIHF need to have their rankings according to how the previous World Hockey Championships. However since the Winter Olympics have featured the best players from each country and the World Hockey Championships doesn't have that because of the NHL Playoffs also happening at the same time, shouldn't the results of the 2010 Winter Olympics be considered a lot more then it already is. The fact that Canada ranks 5th in the world is a joke just because they lost in the Quater Finals of the last two World Hockey Championships, however they are still the defending Olympic Champions and it was only 2 years ago.

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04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
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the only thing the rankings matter for is determining groups so does it really matter? No matter which group you end up in there's good teams to play.

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04-26-2012, 03:49 PM
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Lui One Hall
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Everyone, who follows international hockey, knows that the Olympic gold medalist is the actual reigning world champion. The WC is IIHF's own main competition so I guess it makes sense for them to try make it seem as meaningful as possible.

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04-26-2012, 04:06 PM
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What Canada just 5th? There must be something wrong.

No seriously, what should the IIHF do? The Olympics take place once in 4 years, there has to be some change in between, and the WC is probably the best indicator. Teams like Sweden or Russia send superb teams (Ovi, Datsyuk etc...)from time to time, if Canada would start to care a bit more, they could step up easily. Like this year, as far as I know you ice a really good team. No offense there, just my two cents.

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04-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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The IIHF caters to European countries as much as possible so while the world rankings are BS, it's not all that shocking that they are. As stated earlier, anyone who seriously follows international hockey knows that the world rankings are nothing more than useful for determining pool placement and aren't an accurate representation of international supremacy.

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04-26-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
The IIHF caters to European countries as much as possible so while the world rankings are BS, it's not all that shocking that they are. As stated earlier, anyone who seriously follows international hockey knows that the world rankings are nothing more than useful for determining pool placement and aren't an accurate representation of international supremacy.
what? BS? not, it is not. It is only Canadian problem that they dont send their best at WC. All countries do it, only Canada dont. Your problem. I know SC... take care about SC and dont complain ranking etc. OR reschedule NHL, SC to finish at the end of april.

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04-26-2012, 06:12 PM
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what? BS? not, it is not. It is only Canadian problem that they dont send their best at WC. All countries do it, only Canada dont. Your problem. I know SC... take care about SC and dont complain ranking etc. OR reschedule NHL, SC to finish at the end of april.
The Stanley Cup is THE hockey prize. Its been awarded since 1893 (37 years before the first World Championship) and is competed for by the best Canadians, Americans, Russians, Slovaks, Czechs, Swedes etc . There's a reason the best players play in the NHL.

The IIHF should work itself around the Stanley Cup playoffs. Not the other way around.

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04-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanNuck View Post
What Canada just 5th? There must be something wrong.
Come on, the IIHF should obviously modify its ranking system to account for Canada's inability to get its available players on board.

I mean it's not like Canada is nearly as deep as all the other countries, so they really are at a disadvantage when a couple of players are uavailable.

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04-26-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
The Stanley Cup is THE hockey prize. Its been awarded since 1893 (37 years before the first World Championship) and is competed for by the best Canadians, Americans, Russians, Slovaks, Czechs, Swedes etc . There's a reason the best players play in the NHL.

The IIHF should work itself around the Stanley Cup playoffs. Not the other way around.
You forgot the

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04-26-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatanik View Post
You forgot the
He's not sarcastic, are you new to hf? That's the standard canadian view.

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04-26-2012, 06:22 PM
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He's not sarcastic, are you new to hf? That's the standard canadian view.
I guess. I can't stand it.

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04-26-2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Come on, the IIHF should obviously modify its ranking system to account for Canada's inability to get its available players on board.

I mean it's not like Canada is nearly as deep as all the other countries, so they really are at a disadvantage when a couple of players are uavailable.
If it were up to me the US and Canada would pull out of the WC. If we are not going to take it seriously then we shouldn't go.

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04-26-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
The Stanley Cup is THE hockey prize. Its been awarded since 1893 (37 years before the first World Championship) and is competed for by the best Canadians, Americans, Russians, Slovaks, Czechs, Swedes etc . There's a reason the best players play in the NHL.

The IIHF should work itself around the Stanley Cup playoffs. Not the other way around.

....that's because the NHL is the world's wealthiest league. There's nothing innately special about the SC that isn't trumped by $$$.

If the SEL started paying the highest average salary, you'd slowly see all the world's talent move to Sweden.

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04-26-2012, 06:36 PM
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I mean it's not like Canada is nearly as deep as all the other countries, so they really are at a disadvantage when a couple of players are uavailable.


I remember people posting things like "we could ice 3 teams, and they would end up 1st, 2nd, 3rd"

People complaining about "it's not a best vs. best" should always be reminded that other nations have players in the NHL aswell.

When Canada is missing Crosby&others, Sweden is missing Lundqvist and the Sedins, Russia is missing Malkin, Germany is missing Seidenberg&Hoff.. So the whole tournament is based on pure depth..

And btw: If the olympics would be the only tournament relevant for the rankings, we would see the same teams playing for olympic gold from now until eternity..

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04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanNuck View Post


I remember people posting things like "we could ice 3 teams, and they would end up 1st, 2nd, 3rd"

People complaining about "it's not a best vs. best" should always be reminded that other nations have players in the NHL aswell.

When Canada is missing Crosby&others, Sweden is missing Lundqvist and the Sedins, Russia is missing Malkin, Germany is missing Seidenberg&Hoff.. So the whole tournament is based on pure depth..

And btw: If the olympics would be the only tournament relevant for the rankings, we would see the same teams playing for olympic gold from now until eternity..
If you look at WC and OG results since '98 you will see that there is no correlation between the two. If you are a fan of the WC then that is great but the results of the WC mean very little in terms of a measure of national hockey talent.

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04-26-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanNuck View Post
What Canada just 5th? There must be something wrong.

No seriously, what should the IIHF do? The Olympics take place once in 4 years, there has to be some change in between, and the WC is probably the best indicator. Teams like Sweden or Russia send superb teams (Ovi, Datsyuk etc...)from time to time, if Canada would start to care a bit more, they could step up easily. Like this year, as far as I know you ice a really good team. No offense there, just my two cents.
I think it has more to do with the fact that Canada's best players are usually veterans who need a bit of a break or still playing in the NHL Playoffs when teams are being selected. Moreso the latter.

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04-26-2012, 06:46 PM
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Just have a draw the way other sports do.

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04-26-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
I think it has more to do with the fact that Canada's best players are usually veterans who need a bit of a break or still playing in the NHL Playoffs when teams are being selected. Moreso the latter.
Don't get me wrong, I play hockey myself, and can't even imagine how exhausted I would be after playing 82 games plus a playoff-run. But like I said, every other nation has to deal with it aswell.
For example Germany, we probably won't ice a single NHL player this year, Seidenberg needs a rest and time for his family, the Hoff is injured, Goc&Sturm still in the playoffs, Sulzer has family reasons, Holzer&Müller are still with the Marlies... Greiss will be a call up. So this argument is kinda invalid imo.

We're depending on our domestic league, and we're not complaining And we have a ton of canadian NHL veterans in the league, so maybe you should take a look outside the NHL if you have problems gathering your players

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04-26-2012, 06:58 PM
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No sane person with an ounce of hockey knowledge would actually suggest that Canada is the fifth best hockey nation in the world. Most objective people recognize that Canada is #1 when it comes to hockey.

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04-26-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanNuck View Post


I remember people posting things like "we could ice 3 teams, and they would end up 1st, 2nd, 3rd"

People complaining about "it's not a best vs. best" should always be reminded that other nations have players in the NHL aswell.

When Canada is missing Crosby&others, Sweden is missing Lundqvist and the Sedins, Russia is missing Malkin, Germany is missing Seidenberg&Hoff.. So the whole tournament is based on pure depth..

And btw: If the olympics would be the only tournament relevant for the rankings, we would see the same teams playing for olympic gold from now until eternity..
Are you suggesting that Canada doesn't have the most depth when it comes to hockey players? You couldn't be more wrong, I don't even know how someone who knows anything about hockey could formulate that opinion. The main thing is Canadians grow up never really caring about the World Championship because it's always on during the playoffs. Europeans care a lot more about this tournament, it has nothing to do with having more depth (which is laughable). I don't think any Canadians really care about IIHF rankings, to be blunt. It doesn't bother me at all that Canada is ranked 5th or 4th or whatever it is because it just goes to show how irrelevant the rankings really are. We all know Canada is the best hockey player producing nation (despite or recent World Junior failures ), it sounds arrogant but it's absolutely true.

Canada absolutely could ice three teams in the Olympics, because Canadians actually care about that.

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04-26-2012, 07:07 PM
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Are you suggesting that Canada doesn't have the most depth when it comes to hockey players? You couldn't be more wrong, I don't even know how someone who knows anything about hockey could formulate that opinion. The main thing is Canadians grow up never really caring about the World Championship because it's always on during the playoffs. Europeans care a lot more about this tournament, it has nothing to do with having more depth (which is laughable). I don't think any Canadians really care about IIHF rankings, to be blunt. It doesn't bother me at all that Canada is ranked 5th or 4th or whatever it is because it just goes to show how irrelevant the rankings really are. We all know Canada is the best hockey player producing nation (despite or recent World Junior failures ), it sounds arrogant but it's absolutely true.

Canada absolutely could ice three teams in the Olympics, because Canadians actually care about that.

You sir have absolute sharp senses when it comes down to sarcasm next time i make sure i spread all over my posts..

the reason why the rankings aren't irrelevant to some other nations is that they are the qualifying to the olympics at the same time.. Not saying that it will ever happen, but if you find Canada ranked on the 8th position, you will pray for a good WC

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04-26-2012, 07:13 PM
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No sane person with an ounce of hockey knowledge would actually suggest that Canada is the fifth best hockey nation in the world. Most objective people recognize that Canada is #1 when it comes to hockey.
That doesn't mean that they automatically should be number one in the ranking when their results tell otherwise.

There are small margins, because when you go out in the Quarter finals, you lose some points to the others.

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04-26-2012, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Are you suggesting that Canada doesn't have the most depth when it comes to hockey players? You couldn't be more wrong, I don't even know how someone who knows anything about hockey could formulate that opinion. The main thing is Canadians grow up never really caring about the World Championship because it's always on during the playoffs. Europeans care a lot more about this tournament, it has nothing to do with having more depth (which is laughable). I don't think any Canadians really care about IIHF rankings, to be blunt. It doesn't bother me at all that Canada is ranked 5th or 4th or whatever it is because it just goes to show how irrelevant the rankings really are. We all know Canada is the best hockey player producing nation (despite or recent World Junior failures ), it sounds arrogant but it's absolutely true.

Canada absolutely could ice three teams in the Olympics, because Canadians actually care about that.
No. It isn't irrelevant. It's today, the best way of ranking teams. Canada can produce all the talent they want, but if they can't show up in the World Championships and do good with those guys who are there, I guess they don't have that quality then

And, the rankings mean a lot to other teams. Like Norway, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus and so on. Maybe Canada should drop to 10th so they start caring, because then you have to qualify for the Olympics.

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04-26-2012, 07:23 PM
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That doesn't mean that they automatically should be number one in the ranking when their results tell otherwise.

There are small margins, because when you go out in the Quarter finals, you lose some points to the others.
Maybe not #1 in the ranking, but the top team in the ranking isn't necessarily the best in real-life, tangible terms.

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04-26-2012, 07:26 PM
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so let me understand this...

canada wants to have a higher ranking without actually sending their players to try and win anything 75% of the time?

if they care about rankings, then CARE about how to rank up

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