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General Talk '12 — U.S.A.

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04-23-2012, 04:57 PM
  #326
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I'd take Jonathan Quick or Corey Schneider over any of them any day. Quick is Vezina candidate. Schneider has shown that he has the potential to be one. Brodeur isn't an elite goalie anymore. Holtby has had a good 3-week run, but is far from an elite goalie right now. Price, Ward & Fleury have yet to take their play to a level where they should even be in the same discussion as elite goalies. Jimmy Howard is a more consistent goalie than Price, Ward or Fleury.
Oh God yes. I'm sorry but IMO Price is Canada's #1 goalie right now, and I think he'd be no higher than #4 or maybe #5 on the USA depth chart. Thomas, Miller, Quick are all ahead of any Canadian, and Howard might be too.

Too bad we can't play more than one goalie at a time. Our B-team would be Howard, Schneider, and Anderson. How sick is that!

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04-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #327
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Some insights into what players on the Canucks might suit up for the U.S.:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...822/story.html

Obviosuly Schneider is a must have, but Kesler would be a bonus.

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04-23-2012, 05:05 PM
  #328
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I'm still trying to figure out why we invited John Curry before Jack Campbell. I understand Campbell is young and all, but you'd think his WJC contributions would get him an offer like it got Chris Kreider one.
That's cause Campbell is A overrated and B AHL playoffs I believe..


To the OP who said that he would take Schnieder and Quick over them... Cam Ward has a cup... A Conn Smythe... A WHC gold and a silver too...

Brodeur... He's still top 10 but ya barely...

Luongo he gave the Nucks a chance last year(Boston should of swept them)

Fleury(Hes injured, something's off) cup... Cup finals... WJC finals...

Price(**** team) ill admit he's lacking the pedigree but internationally the WJC's Best goalie back in 07 and I think he was MVP also he won a Calder cup and was MVP... And he carried the Habs into last years playoffs...

Quick I won't lie he's good, but look at Sutters system...

Thomas enough said..

Miller see above

Howard's not a more consistent goalie then Price or Ward.. No..

Canada has better depth... In terms of goalies... We haven't talked Mike Smith either.... Or Crawfish...(Crawford)

Looking foward to a great tourney

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04-23-2012, 05:06 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Canada is solid up front (Perry, Getlzaf, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Tavares, etc.) but like us had a lot of guys turn them down (Nash, Stamkos for example). They have Phaneuf, Bowmeester, and Subban playing defense and Cam Ward in net. So they're pretty solid. The discussion on the Canada message board isn't whether they're good or not, but whether Canadians really care.

You're right, Canada's depth is unmatched. This tournament should be perfect for them. They're the only country where you can subtract a lot of their best players because of the playoffs or because they decline and they can still field an all-star calibre team.
Yep, I feel we can go head to head with Canada when we have the full A team, but as soon as a piece or two start falling off our wagon we start to lag behind quickly. Not the case for Canada.

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04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
  #330
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Luongo he gave the Nucks a chance last year(Boston should of swept them)



Speechless

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04-23-2012, 05:09 PM
  #331
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Yep, I feel we can go head to head with Canada when we have the full A team, but as soon as a piece or two start falling off our wagon we start to lag behind quickly. Not the case for Canada.
You just need a hot goalie in a tourney like this... You see the Finns last year ? It the Czechs in 2010 ?

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04-23-2012, 05:10 PM
  #332
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Speechless
When you score like 4 goals through 4 games an the series is tied your goalie is doing something...

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04-23-2012, 05:16 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Some insights into what players on the Canucks might suit up for the U.S.:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...822/story.html

Obviosuly Schneider is a must have, but Kesler would be a bonus.
Pretty lazy article. Miller already declined. 2 goalies have already been named. And no way would Schneider be battling 4-5 other goalies.

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04-23-2012, 05:17 PM
  #334
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I haven't seen Canada's roster, but their depth is simply unmatched by any other country. And since both Canada and the US suffer from declines more than any others, it means that the US is going to be up against it to match Canada's skaters. Goaltending is the wildcard and that's why we want/need/beg for a goalie like Schneider to show up.
The top 6 countries have been fairly equal for a long time when it comes to their elite top 5 or 6 players. It's that next level of players where the depth is noticeable. Finland might have about 10-15 quality players to chose from, Czech Republic maybe 20, Sweden, US & Russia 20-30. Canada, on the other hand, has twice as many players of equal talent to chose from than any other country.

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04-23-2012, 05:19 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
That's cause Campbell is A overrated and B AHL playoffs I believe..


To the OP who said that he would take Schnieder and Quick over them... Cam Ward has a cup... A Conn Smythe... A WHC gold and a silver too...

Brodeur... He's still top 10 but ya barely...

Luongo he gave the Nucks a chance last year(Boston should of swept them)

Fleury(Hes injured, something's off) cup... Cup finals... WJC finals...

Price(**** team) ill admit he's lacking the pedigree but internationally the WJC's Best goalie back in 07 and I think he was MVP also he won a Calder cup and was MVP... And he carried the Habs into last years playoffs...

Quick I won't lie he's good, but look at Sutters system...

Thomas enough said..

Miller see above

Howard's not a more consistent goalie then Price or Ward.. No..

Canada has better depth... In terms of goalies... We haven't talked Mike Smith either.... Or Crawfish...(Crawford)

Looking foward to a great tourney
I'm sorry, but you're way off your rocker here. USA is #1 in goal. In addition to our big 4 of Thomas, Miller, Quick, and Howard, we have good depth too. Schneider, Anderson, Montoya (bag on him all you want, but before he got the concussion he was playing quite well for the Islanders), DiPietro when he's healthy (which unfortately is almost never), and Clemmensen are all starting caliber NHL goalies, with a half dozen being All-Star Caliber or close to it. Plus we have a lot of promising youngsters like Jack Campbell, Ben Bishop, and Alex Stalock.

There were six goalies in the NHL All-Star Game. Half of them were Americans. And our best goalie (Miller) wasn't even among them. As for Quick being a product of Sutter's system, Quick was great long before Sutter came along, and the save he made against Sedin lastnight had nothing to do with Sutter.

That's great that Ward has all that stuff, but if you think that makes him better than the top 4-5 American goalies all by themselves then you should probably stop posting here. Giguere and Niemi have Cups, Nittimayaki has an Olympic MVP award and a silver, Luongo has an Olympic gold, Bryzgalov and Vokoun have WCH golds. None of that makes any of them better than Miller, Thomas, Quick, or Howard.

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04-23-2012, 05:24 PM
  #336
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It's sad how many players have declined. The WC actually count for something this year since it will decide the seedings for the Olympics. Any player that declines will hopefully be left off the Olympic roster as they obviously don't care anyway.

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04-23-2012, 05:24 PM
  #337
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Does Parise play if Jersey gets bounced tomorrow?

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04-23-2012, 05:26 PM
  #338
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I'm thinking that since Kesler had that offseason hip surgery and was early coming back from it this season, I'd bet he declines.

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04-23-2012, 05:27 PM
  #339
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It's sad how many players have declined. The WC actually count for something this year since it will decide the seedings for the Olympics. Any player that declines will hopefully be left off the Olympic roster as they obviously don't care anyway.
Woah, you realize what our Olympic team would look like if they did that?

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04-23-2012, 05:29 PM
  #340
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It's sad how many players have declined. The WC actually count for something this year since it will decide the seedings for the Olympics. Any player that declines will hopefully be left off the Olympic roster as they obviously don't care anyway.
In a perfect world it might work that way, but will you really bring guys like Atkinson, Brown, and Okposo over Kane, Kessel, and Kessler (wow, a lot of "K's" there) just because the former accepted invites and the latter didn't? I think it's one of many factors that should be taken into consideration when you pick your Olympic team but let's face it- there's a lot of guys who will make the Olympic team even if they don't play in the Worlds, and a lot of guys who wouldn't make the team no matter how many times they play in the Worlds.

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Does Parise play if Jersey gets bounced tomorrow?
I bet he does. He was pretty ticked that one year when they gave Chris Higgins the last spot, he really wanted to play although his Olympic spot was already secured. Last year he was still recovering from injury so he didn't play, but he served as a studio analyst for USA games.


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04-23-2012, 05:30 PM
  #341
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Woah, you realize what our Olympic team would look like if they did that?
Wouldn't be that bad. I'm just talking about the guys that are healthy and decline, not the injured ones.

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04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #342
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It's sad how many players have declined. The WC actually count for something this year since it will decide the seedings for the Olympics. Any player that declines will hopefully be left off the Olympic roster as they obviously don't care anyway.
For the record, the USA Hockey brass aren't above doing that. Tim Connolly and Jason Pomminville weren't invited to the 2010 orientation camp in large part because they turned down the Worlds the year before for no legitimate reason. And I'll bet the farm that when we invite guys to our 2014 camp, R.J. Umberger won't be among the invitees.

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04-23-2012, 06:10 PM
  #343
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Does Parise play if Jersey gets bounced tomorrow?
Coming off his knee injury and his impending UFA status I'd say no. But outside of Jack Johnson, if someone were to play on those conditions, it would be Zach.

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04-23-2012, 06:14 PM
  #344
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Jimmy Howard accepts. And Justin Abdelkader per Kevin Allen.

Preferred Schneider but stoked to just get a legit #1.

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04-23-2012, 06:20 PM
  #345
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Wouldn't be that bad. I'm just talking about the guys that are healthy and decline, not the injured ones.
This time of year, every player is injured.

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04-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #346
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For the record, the USA Hockey brass aren't above doing that. Tim Connolly and Jason Pomminville weren't invited to the 2010 orientation camp in large part because they turned down the Worlds the year before for no legitimate reason. And I'll bet the farm that when we invite guys to our 2014 camp, R.J. Umberger won't be among the invitees.
Well those guys are pretty fringe in terms of the talent pool. Nobody is dropping Kane, Kessel, Suter etc but honestly I don't see Pominville, Connolly or Umberger as better than the bottom guys that were taken.

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04-23-2012, 06:22 PM
  #347
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Jimmy Howard accepts. And Justin Abdelkader per Kevin Allen.

Preferred Schneider but stoked to just get a legit #1.
Abdelkader is meh, but it gives us still two more forward spots to get a real scorer.


Howard is better than Montoya, so ....

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04-23-2012, 06:25 PM
  #348
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Coming off his knee injury and his impending UFA status I'd say no. But outside of Jack Johnson, if someone were to play on those conditions, it would be Zach.
The answer will most likely be no. Lou will not risk it especially since Parise was out for a year. He did similar things last year with a few players (Zubrus, others) when they had minor injuries.

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04-23-2012, 06:28 PM
  #349
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Pacioretty (32-31-63) ======= Stastny (21-32-53) ===== Ryan (31-26-57)
Crabb (11-15-26) ========= Slater (13-8-21) ====== Okposo (23-21-44)
Gerbe (6-19-25) ========== Thompson (9-6-15) ======== Atkinson (5-6-11)
Abdelkader (8-14-22)========= X ===============Dwyer (5-7-11)
Lasch (24-38-62)*
JT Brown (24-23-47)#










Jack Johnson (12-26-38: -7)==== Alex Goligoski (9-21-30: 0)

Cam Fowler (5-24-29: -28) ==== Jeff Petry (2-23-25: -7)

Chris Butler (2-13-15: -9) ==== Justin Faulk (8-14-22: -16)






Defense is arranged by handedness and points.



Jimmy Howard (.920, 2.13)
Richard Bachmann (.910, 2.77)
John Curry (.917, 2.73)^



*SM-liiga
#NCAA
^DEL

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04-23-2012, 06:45 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
That's cause Campbell is A overrated and B AHL playoffs I believe..


To the OP who said that he would take Schnieder and Quick over them... Cam Ward has a cup... A Conn Smythe... A WHC gold and a silver too...

Brodeur... He's still top 10 but ya barely...

Luongo he gave the Nucks a chance last year(Boston should of swept them)

Fleury(Hes injured, something's off) cup... Cup finals... WJC finals...

Price(**** team) ill admit he's lacking the pedigree but internationally the WJC's Best goalie back in 07 and I think he was MVP also he won a Calder cup and was MVP... And he carried the Habs into last years playoffs...

Quick I won't lie he's good, but look at Sutters system...

Thomas enough said..

Miller see above

Howard's not a more consistent goalie then Price or Ward.. No..

Canada has better depth... In terms of goalies... We haven't talked Mike Smith either.... Or Crawfish...(Crawford)

Looking foward to a great tourney
Sutter's been LA's coach for only half a season. Quick been putting up Vezina numbers for a year and half. Mike Smith has had 1 good year. Last year Mike Smith was buried in the minors on a team desperate for a goalie. Crawford's season was a whole lot closer to James Reimer-like than Vezina-like. I'd put more faith in prospects like Dubnyk, Bernier and Holtby to emerge as elite goalies than Fleury, Price and Ward. And if WJC accomplishments are pretty much meaningless otherwise Jimmy Waite & Trevor Kidd would be Hall-of-Famers and Justin Pogge would be the Leafs starting goalie.

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