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General Talk '12 — U.S.A.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:16 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
He could still easily be injured. I was partying in high school with a broken wrist. Fact is he declined, just like most of our first line guys. That Ryan Kesler is golfing and Patrick Kane is going to frat parties doesn't really concern me. Neither are in Finland.

I get to see Kane every game of the year, I never felt he was hurt one ounce during the playoffs or right after them.

Unless this was the Olympics you will never see Kane play for the US...

He is just that type of person.


Last edited by The Nemesis: 05-07-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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05-07-2012, 11:39 PM
  #702
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The Coyotes just terminated the Predators.

Wow, totally unpredictable but from a USA hockey perspective, perhaps the best.


My first invites go to

David Backes
Ryan Suter


assuming they say no, which I expect they will...

Hal Gill
TJ Oshie

then...


Colin Wilson
David Legwand
Kevin Shattenkirk

.....


after that, I don't bother. Maybe Craig Smith is worth a look, maybe not.

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05-07-2012, 11:45 PM
  #703
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I already said it...bring on Colin Wilson....

I just see that happening bigtime...

I like our defense as is, so I am hoping for Wilson and Oshie.... these 2 centers can help this team out a lot and really give us 3 balanced scoring lines.

this is my pick to click baby!

Wilson and Oshie '12!!!

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05-07-2012, 11:51 PM
  #704
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Wilson with 35 points would be the 5th highest scorer on the team if added. Oshie would be the 3rd highest if he joined.


I'd really like a steady defensive presence to add to the team, but I don't think Ryan Suter is coming.


Don't get me wrong, I'm the first to acknowledge the limits of +/- but Kevin Shattenkirk would be the only defenseman on the roster with a plus rating.


Last edited by Xokkeu: 05-07-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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05-08-2012, 12:06 AM
  #705
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after that, I don't bother. Maybe Craig Smith is worth a look, maybe not.
I'd take Craig Smith over Legwand. I liked what I saw from Smith last year.

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05-08-2012, 12:13 AM
  #706
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I'd take Craig Smith over Legwand. I liked what I saw from Smith last year.
Smith had 36 points this year and was a healthy scratch for the Predators, even when Radulov and Kostitsyn got dropped.


Legwand was one of the Predators top players and had 53 points this season. That'd immediately put him towards the top of our forwards in terms of point production.


I don't think it's close between the two except that Legwand might say no.

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05-08-2012, 12:16 AM
  #707
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You want Hal Gill to play on international ice? That would be fun to watch...for opponents.

Pick up another center such as Backes, Oshie(did he play much center this year?) or Legwand and a dman such as Shattenkirk or Suter.

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05-08-2012, 12:24 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Smith had 36 points this year and was a healthy scratch for the Predators, even when Radulov and Kostitsyn got dropped.

Legwand was one of the Predators top players and had 53 points this season. That'd immediately put him towards the top of our forwards in terms of point production.

I don't think it's close between the two except that Legwand might say no.
I meant with the national team, not the Preds.

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05-08-2012, 02:36 AM
  #709
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USA wasn't good against Slovakia. Now they get some rest and face some easier opponents (thursday and friday) and big test then on sunday against Finland where they finally get to play in front of a crowd.

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05-08-2012, 06:24 AM
  #710
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Where is Kessel?

You think after his last showing at the Olympics he would have showed up for a WC to redeem himself.

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05-08-2012, 06:25 AM
  #711
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Where is that fat **** Kessel?
Nursing a wrist injury if memory serves.

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05-08-2012, 08:52 AM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The Coyotes just terminated the Predators.

Wow, totally unpredictable but from a USA hockey perspective, perhaps the best.


My first invites go to

David Backes
Ryan Suter


assuming they say no, which I expect they will...

Hal Gill
TJ Oshie

then...


Colin Wilson
David Legwand
Kevin Shattenkirk

.....


after that, I don't bother. Maybe Craig Smith is worth a look, maybe not.
My first invites would go to Backes,Oshie,Suter,Shattenkirk,Legwand and Wilson. The US team needs major help up front. How Hal Gill is above a promising and one of the better young defensemen in the NHL is a higher invite to you is a bit sketchy.

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05-08-2012, 10:06 AM
  #713
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The Slovak game to me was a reversion to mean for US.

This US team for the talent the country produces is on average
a "C" team.

Goal - C team with Howard playing 100%. There r 5 US goalies Imo better than him

Defenseman - C team with Johnson only A player, Fowler/ Faulk/Goligoski C players
Petry D level player, Butler E or F level player.

Forwards - C level, with Pacioretty/Ryan only A's.... Stastny B, Okposo C ,
Thompson, Slater, Abdelkader D level rest are E level.

A = Top 6 per team for D
Top 4 for wings & centers.

So Okposo rates Imo at 9 or 10 in US center talent, etc.


Last edited by doakacola*: 05-08-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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05-08-2012, 10:11 AM
  #714
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Correction with 2 Goalies per team, 5 better than Howard. Howard splits with Schneider
on a US "C" team. This assumes 2 G, 6D and 12F in rankings. This we be my rankings of players
for say A - C team. Obviously people can quibble with rankings, but its a start for figuring talent level of this team.

Goalies
A Team - Miller/ Quick B Team - Thomas - Anderson C - Team - Howard/Schneider

Defensemen
A Team -Suter-E. Johnson-Byfuglien-Yandle-J. Johnson-Orpik

B Team - Carlson-McDonagh-Wisniewski-Gleason-Shattenkirk-Scuderi

C Team - Fowler-Faulk-Komisarek-Carle-Goligoski-Gill/Bogosian

D Team - Bogosian/Gill-Liles-Niskanen-Leddy-Whitney-Stuart

E Team - Martin-Fayne-Green (LA)-Greene (NJ)-Ballard-Petry

Forwards

A Tm Kesler-Backes-Pavelski-Oshie-Parise-Brown-Pacioretty-Booth-Kane-Ryan-Callahan-Kessel

B Tm Legwand-Umberger-Stastny-Cullen-JVR-Malone-Wheeler-Dubinsky-Cole-Gionta-Pomv-Stafford

C Tm Okposo-Stepan-Wilson-Boyle-Kreider-Foligno-Higgins-Gerbe-Smith-Stempniak-Nystrom-Larose

D Tm Connolly-Slater-Gaustad-Thompson-Abdelkader-Miller-Hendricks-Moss-Knuble-Brown-O'Brien-Palmieri

E Team - Halpern-Reasoner-Steckel-Gomez-Rolston-Rupp-Mueller-Crabb-Eaves-JT Brown-Wiggles-Ferriero


Last edited by doakacola*: 05-08-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 11:37 AM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
My first invites would go to Backes,Oshie,Suter,Shattenkirk,Legwand and Wilson. The US team needs major help up front. How Hal Gill is above a promising and one of the better young defensemen in the NHL is a higher invite to you is a bit sketchy.
I wouldn't really have an issue with say Gill and Legwand being offered spots. They are in complete "game shape" and are teammates. Gill partnered with Jack Johnson would be a decent pairing against a team like Canada.

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Old
05-08-2012, 11:38 AM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
My first invites would go to Backes,Oshie,Suter,Shattenkirk,Legwand and Wilson. The US team needs major help up front. How Hal Gill is above a promising and one of the better young defensemen in the NHL is a higher invite to you is a bit sketchy.
No way Suter risks an injury as he'll be looking for big $$ in FA.

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05-08-2012, 12:01 PM
  #717
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People on this board need to get off Howard's back, really. Look around the tourney. All of the goalies are getting manhandled...Badly. Now look at the stats. Among the goalies playing, he's one of the better goalies in the atm.

We ask for "better" goalies", but you guys wont and don't consider one thing. The jump from NHL ice to international ice; which throws a goalie game off by a LARGE margine. Look at Miller at the Olympics, he was mediocre at the start (he was, look at his stats), but got much better as the Olympics went along. It took him 3 games to get going.

We bring over Quick? He'll get lit up. Thomas? He'll look just as bad in their first 2-3 games. Same goes for Schneider and Elliot and all of these guys who blow Howard out of the water. USA would still have lost that game yesterday, and these "better" goalies will be struggling just as bad as Howard is right now. That extra ice they have to worry about messes with how they challenge and read angles. Speaking of angles, that also messes with their rebound control. Which would explain why Howard is struggling in that dept as well. He didn't eeven look that bad in his rookie year.

Give the Howard time to adjust to the ice (befoer throwing him under the bus...too late for that I suppose)...it's a large factor, and I bet it's why he's struggling the way he is at the moment (off his angle a bit and rebound control). He looked better in game 3. It's probably starting to click. I'm sure there are nerves he's battling too.

Now the defense neds to learn how to play without the puck. They have great puck control.... But without the puck? Horrible. I'm having flashes of the Red Wing/Nashville series. Low shot against, but insanely high quality chances against. If that's the case, that will be a tough order for even the goalies you guys are asking for.

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05-08-2012, 01:04 PM
  #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
People on this board need to get off Howard's back, really. Look around the tourney. All of the goalies are getting manhandled...Badly. Now look at the stats. Among the goalies playing, he's one of the better goalies in the atm.

We ask for "better" goalies", but you guys wont and don't consider one thing. The jump from NHL ice to international ice; which throws a goalie game off by a LARGE margine. Look at Miller at the Olympics, he was mediocre at the start (he was, look at his stats), but got much better as the Olympics went along. It took him 3 games to get going.

We bring over Quick? He'll get lit up. Thomas? He'll look just as bad in their first 2-3 games. Same goes for Schneider and Elliot and all of these guys who blow Howard out of the water. USA would still have lost that game yesterday, and these "better" goalies will be struggling just as bad as Howard is right now. That extra ice they have to worry about messes with how they challenge and read angles. Speaking of angles, that also messes with their rebound control. Which would explain why Howard is struggling in that dept as well. He didn't eeven look that bad in his rookie year.

Give the Howard time to adjust to the ice (befoer throwing him under the bus...too late for that I suppose)...it's a large factor, and I bet it's why he's struggling the way he is at the moment (off his angle a bit and rebound control). He looked better in game 3. It's probably starting to click. I'm sure there are nerves he's battling too.

Now the defense neds to learn how to play without the puck. They have great puck control.... But without the puck? Horrible. I'm having flashes of the Red Wing/Nashville series. Low shot against, but insanely high quality chances against. If that's the case, that will be a tough order for even the goalies you guys are asking for.
Quite a bit presumptuous. Id take Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider over Howard and not think more than a second doing it. They aren't available so we are stuck with him... doesn't mean we cant wish it the other way around.

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05-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #719
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Quite a bit presumptuous. Id take Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider over Howard and not think more than a second doing it. They aren't available so we are stuck with him... doesn't mean we cant wish it the other way around.
It's not.

Miller struggled in the Olympics when he came over. He put it together. Marty B, for Canada, he never figured it out. He was replaced withh Luongo...who never figured it out. They both looked shakey through out.

Why are all the goalies in the tourney getting lit up? Are all the goalies just bad? And Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider (unproven goalie) are just that much better than everybody here). At least a struggling Howard has kept the numbers low. Once he puts it together, he'll be fine.

By the way, the goalies that are preforming better than most...are not the NHL goalies. It's the no-names. You know, the ones used to international ice.

I stand by my statement. Look at the Canada thread about goalies. They want a better goalie than Cam Ward, truley you wwould think he's better than Howard?

But he's struggling too. But nope, Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider (this one I don't get an unproven goalie) can come over and take international ice by storm.

They would struggle just the same. History doesn't lie. There are rare exceptions, but I'd rather follow the rule.

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05-08-2012, 01:20 PM
  #720
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No one from the Blues per beat writer Jeremy Rutherford.

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05-08-2012, 01:22 PM
  #721
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Quite a bit presumptuous. Id take Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider over Howard and not think more than a second doing it. They aren't available so we are stuck with him... doesn't mean we cant wish it the other way around.
Close between Howard and Anderson actually.

There is no shame in Jimmy Howard being the #6 ranked US goalie. Its clearly the strength of USA Hockey positionally.

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05-08-2012, 01:30 PM
  #722
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It's not.

Miller struggled in the Olympics when he came over. He put it together. Marty B, for Canada, he never figured it out. He was replaced withh Luongo...who never figured it out. They both looked shakey through out.

Why are all the goalies in the tourney getting lit up? Are all the goalies just bad? And Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider (unproven goalie) are just that much better than everybody here). At least a struggling Howard has kept the numbers low. Once he puts it together, he'll be fine.

By the way, the goalies that are preforming better than most...are not the NHL goalies. It's the no-names. You know, the ones used to international ice.

I stand by my statement. Look at the Canada thread about goalies. They want a better goalie than Cam Ward, truley you wwould think he's better than Howard?

But he's struggling too. But nope, Quick, Thomas, Miller and Schneider (this one I don't get an unproven goalie) can come over and take international ice by storm.

They would struggle just the same. History doesn't lie. There are rare exceptions, but I'd rather follow the rule.
I wouldn't say he's anymore "unproven" than Howard. He played well in the Stanley Cup PO, at least as well as Howard did. I'm not bashing Howard, nothing the matter with what I consider him as, the #6 USA goalie. I understand your point and its valid regarding Int ice. Poll most GM's and the only ones Howard might poll higher over deciding whom to take in a G7 situation tomorrow would be Anderson or Schneider. Miller, Quick & Thomas are clearly better than Howard.

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05-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #723
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No one from the Blues per beat writer Jeremy Rutherford.
Wonder if Gill goes for what might be a USA Hockey swan song?

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05-08-2012, 01:42 PM
  #724
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I wouldn't say he's anymore "unproven" than Howard. He played well in the Stanley Cup PO, at least as well as Howard did. I'm not bashing Howard, nothing the matter with what I consider him as, the #6 USA goalie. I understand your point and its valid regarding Int ice. Poll most GM's and the only ones Howard might poll higher over deciding whom to take in a G7 situation tomorrow would be Anderson or Schneider. Miller, Quick & Thomas are clearly better than Howard.
I don't disagree.

What I'm arguing is people throwing Howard under the bus, who is clearing struggling because of the ice, not because of his lack of skill. His rebound control is off. His angles are off; and he's not even challenging the shooter. Howard Always plays out of the out of the paint...he hasn't been.

His game is clearly been thrown off. But what get's me is people asking for all of these other goalies. They wont do any better. They will hhave their fair share of woes between the pipes, and I'm sure we these people will cal for another goalie.

"Quick sucks" "Thomas sucks" I told you Miller was washed up"

Never pleasing these people.

The only Goalie I can see being a proper replacement would be Miller. He's been there and has done that. Ya know? The other guys? Never. Howard did it like 10ish years ago and won gold, but that was 10ish years ago. I also don't know if that was on international ice or not. I'll have to check.

We can ask for better goalies for the sake of asking for better goalies. But using these 3 games as a justification? I think that's just wrong. Give the kid some time to adjust.

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05-08-2012, 01:57 PM
  #725
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Saw most of Team USA hanging around Helsinki today. Think they tried to get into a pub to watch Finland-Swizz game but it was propably full

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